Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Scott Steiner]

1 hour ago, spongeheid15 said:

Sturgeon to announce tomorrow she will release some of the 350 thousand she has squirrel away for Indy project  and the Portugal renovations, wonder we're the 600 thousand is plus where is Peter??? 

Can you imagine if Boris had fluttered away 600k of 'ring fenced' cash?

There'd be a full scale, nationwide meltdown.

The media give Sturgeon such an easy ride.

[lichtgilphead]

12 minutes ago, RiG said:

Anyone who can't crop an image saved from their phone before they post it on here should be automatically banned.

Is this cropped enough?

[Theyellowbox]

18 hours ago, Scott Steiner said:

She's a fine wummin is oor Arlene.

Met her when she was over for the County parade in Cowdenbeath.  She spoke very well.

She may well be a decent person (I don't know her personally, so couldn't comment), but I'd ask the question as to why she would come to Scotland for a parade/march?

I cannot see neither a justification or a value of an elected politician for either another country or another region of the UK attending an even which at best can be described as divisive? I single her out here, but equally applies elsewhere. Would it be acceptable for Nicola Sturgeon to attend an event in say Corby that commemorated a Scottish battle vs England that other people in the area objected to? Of course not. Would we allow a group of Muslims to march through central Manchester commemorating ottoman victories or anything more recent? No, we would not.

If the stated purpose of a march was to commemorate a national victory such a ww1, where we may have living memory of the participants, fine, (which my albeit limited understanding was in part the origin of the OO marches) but we need to recognise that while some may have valid reasons and in now way violent or confrontational, there is elements within and outwith that DO cause public nuisance and violence in all sorts of marches.

To that end, why would Arlene Foster attend an event in Scotland in the knowledge that it could be interpreted by quite a lot of people as provocative? I like to think of myself as fairly open and reasonable and yet I cannot see a reason for her attendance at an OO event in Scotland. To flip the context, Imagine Gerry Adams pitched up at a republican parade in Kelty. 

For me, if there is marches that are inclusive and commemorative of events relevant to the location of the march AND it is within living memory, then no issue (even if they can be controversial) then that is OK. If a march is either political (e.g AUOB) or based on non current historical (e.g OO), then these should be subject to a) restricted locations, b) ALL policing costs borne by the organisers and c) not influenced by non domestic organisers/speakers or politicians.

 

[Clown Job]

From the article:
 

However, it said her “no nonsense, straight-talking approach” could appeal to a wide range of people, particularly younger Scots.

I’d love to know what made them think she would appeal to younger Scots.

[itzdrk]

On 11/12/2021 at 21:56, Scott Steiner said:

If the rumours are true, and I believe they are, then the manipulation is off the scale.  I have good reason to believe them, and that's all I'm prepared to say.

Pretty sure SNP candidates, staffers etc sign a disclosure, so we're not about to hear her colleagues bad mouth her.

Keith Jackson that you?

[Scott Steiner]

3 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

She may well be a decent person (I don't know her personally, so couldn't comment), but I'd ask the question as to why she would come to Scotland for a parade/march?

I cannot see neither a justification or a value of an elected politician for either another country or another region of the UK attending an even which at best can be described as divisive? I single her out here, but equally applies elsewhere. Would it be acceptable for Nicola Sturgeon to attend an event in say Corby that commemorated a Scottish battle vs England that other people in the area objected to? Of course not. Would we allow a group of Muslims to march through central Manchester commemorating ottoman victories or anything more recent? No, we would not.

If the stated purpose of a march was to commemorate a national victory such a ww1, where we may have living memory of the participants, fine, (which my albeit limited understanding was in part the origin of the OO marches) but we need to recognise that while some may have valid reasons and in now way violent or confrontational, there is elements within and outwith that DO cause public nuisance and violence in all sorts of marches.

To that end, why would Arlene Foster attend an event in Scotland in the knowledge that it could be interpreted by quite a lot of people as provocative? I like to think of myself as fairly open and reasonable and yet I cannot see a reason for her attendance at an OO event in Scotland. To flip the context, Imagine Gerry Adams pitched up at a republican parade in Kelty. 

For me, if there is marches that are inclusive and commemorative of events relevant to the location of the march AND it is within living memory, then no issue (even if they can be controversial) then that is OK. If a march is either political (e.g AUOB) or based on non current historical (e.g OO), then these should be subject to a) restricted locations, b) ALL policing costs borne by the organisers and c) not influenced by non domestic organisers/speakers or politicians.

 

She was invited over by the County Grand Lodge of the East for their 50th anniversary, and graciously accepted the invitation.  She's not a member of the Orange Order but is certainly cut from the same cloth as us.

What's divisive or not is subjective.  Orange parades may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the tradition has importance, depth and meaning for those who take part as well as the many onlookers and supporters.

To answer your questions, if Muslims wanted a march through Manchester to commemorate Ottoman victories then it would be allowed and be protected by law.  You actually do get Islamic parades over here sometimes.  Parades/protests/demonstrations take place for all sorts of things in a free society.  Just not liking what a parade stands for isn't a good reason to have it banned, nor is any violence which may arise from either supporters or opponents.  The police should deal with these people.

Arlene's attendance may have been interpreted as provocative by some, but to be honest YB.. if people can't handle her attending an event with historical, cultural and traditional significance for her without getting all offended then it's hard to see how they get through life in the first place.  Even if it was provocative (which it wasn't) then what's the big deal?  Look at this amount of provocation in society, on the telly.. on this message board.  It's part of life.

Gerry Adams would be free to attend a Republican march in Kelty if he wanted IMO.  It's hardly an appropriate analogy given his evil past, but he's a free man and he'd have every right to go to an event that he cares about.

The stipulations you speak of are simply unfair and against human rights legislation.  Not being funny, but it's not for you to decide what's acceptable for those who want to hold a parade.  It's up to the organisers.

[Zern]

Gerry Adam's evil past? Look forward to seeing you unpacking that.

As for human rights legislation, Raab's got that covered.

37 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

She was invited over by the County Grand Lodge of the East for their 50th anniversary, and graciously accepted the invitation.  She's not a member of the Orange Order but is certainly cut from the same cloth as us.

What's divisive or not is subjective.  Orange parades may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the tradition has importance, depth and meaning for those who take part as well as the many onlookers and supporters.

To answer your questions, if Muslims wanted a march through Manchester to commemorate Ottoman victories then it would be allowed and be protected by law.  You actually do get Islamic parades over here sometimes.  Parades/protests/demonstrations take place for all sorts of things in a free society.  Just not liking what a parade stands for isn't a good reason to have it banned, nor is any violence which may arise from either supporters or opponents.  The police should deal with these people.

Arlene's attendance may have been interpreted as provocative by some, but to be honest YB.. if people can't handle her attending an event with historical, cultural and traditional significance for her without getting all offended then it's hard to see how they get through life in the first place.  Even if it was provocative (which it wasn't) then what's the big deal?  Look at this amount of provocation in society, on the telly.. on this message board.  It's part of life.

Gerry Adams would be free to attend a Republican march in Kelty if he wanted IMO.  It's hardly an appropriate analogy given his evil past, but he's a free man and he'd have every right to go to an event that he cares about.

The stipulations you speak of are simply unfair and against human rights legislation.  Not being funny, but it's not for you to decide what's acceptable for those who want to hold a parade.  It's up to the organisers.

Sounds like a cult.

[Jeff Venom]

Gerry Adam's evil past? Look forward to seeing you unpacking that.
As for human rights legislation, Raab's got that covered.
Sounds like a cult.

At least we're slowly but surely getting there.

[Theyellowbox]

1 hour ago, Scott Steiner said:

She was invited over by the County Grand Lodge of the East for their 50th anniversary, and graciously accepted the invitation.  She's not a member of the Orange Order but is certainly cut from the same cloth as us.

What's divisive or not is subjective.  Orange parades may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the tradition has importance, depth and meaning for those who take part as well as the many onlookers and supporters.

To answer your questions, if Muslims wanted a march through Manchester to commemorate Ottoman victories then it would be allowed and be protected by law.  You actually do get Islamic parades over here sometimes.  Parades/protests/demonstrations take place for all sorts of things in a free society.  Just not liking what a parade stands for isn't a good reason to have it banned, nor is any violence which may arise from either supporters or opponents.  The police should deal with these people.

Arlene's attendance may have been interpreted as provocative by some, but to be honest YB.. if people can't handle her attending an event with historical, cultural and traditional significance for her without getting all offended then it's hard to see how they get through life in the first place.  Even if it was provocative (which it wasn't) then what's the big deal?  Look at this amount of provocation in society, on the telly.. on this message board.  It's part of life.

Gerry Adams would be free to attend a Republican march in Kelty if he wanted IMO.  It's hardly an appropriate analogy given his evil past, but he's a free man and he'd have every right to go to an event that he cares about.

The stipulations you speak of are simply unfair and against human rights legislation.  Not being funny, but it's not for you to decide what's acceptable for those who want to hold a parade.  It's up to the organisers.

I suppose my challenge is what has an Orange Order march got to do with Scotland in the 21st century? I sort of understand on the island of Ireland, but why Scotland? Having a lodge and having events is one thing, each and to their own, but what I can never get my head around is why march through streets? Go to a park, set up a stage for the bands and have bbq's or whatever, but the act of marching makes no sense in terms of commemorating anything. I'm also in the dark as to what there is Marches in Cowdenbeith, Perth, Dundee or whatever. Why loads of marches on different days in different locations? 

Re the stipulations, my point would be that if Football clubs are forced to pay for policing at games, then why would/should a march be treated any differently?

Re Adams and Foster, I've no skin in the game and what happens in NI has little to no interest to me, but what does concern me is that the ills of elsewhere are brought into Scottish society and I'm not sure what advantages it brings to the wider community. Happy to be educated if I'm wrong, but surely a good aspect could be donations and collections to local charities and kids hospitals etc. Also happy to be educated on what the specific relevance to Scotland and the locations of Marches is. Does Cowdenbeith have some particular significance for example? 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Theyellowbox

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I suppose my challenge is what has an Orange Order march got to do with Scotland in the 21st century? I sort of understand on the island of Ireland, but why Scotland? Having a lodge and having events is one thing, each and to their own, but what I can never get my head around is why march through streets? Go to a park, set up a stage for the bands and have bbq's or whatever, but the act of marching makes no sense in terms of commemorating anything. I'm also in the dark as to what there is Marches in Cowdenbeith, Perth, Dundee or whatever. Why loads of marches on different days in different locations? 
Re the stipulations, my point would be that if Football clubs are forced to pay for policing at games, then why would/should a march be treated any differently?
Re Adams and Foster, I've no skin in the game and what happens in NI has little to no interest to me, but what does concern me is that the ills of elsewhere are brought into Scottish society and I'm not sure what advantages it brings to the wider community. Happy to be educated if I'm wrong, but surely a good aspect could be donations and collections to local charities and kids hospitals etc. Also happy to be educated on what the specific relevance to Scotland and the locations of Marches is. Does Cowdenbeith have some particular significance for example? 
 

In the south east of Scotland the orange order do one relatively big do, generally in some shit small town that had coal generations ago, as opposed to doing lots of shitty little ones. The venue rotates like a particularly shit version of the Olympics

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Imagine defending events which actively encourage sectarianism.  What a thick bigot you would have to be.  A deep rooted tradition right enough.

[Scott Steiner]

41 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

I suppose my challenge is what has an Orange Order march got to do with Scotland in the 21st century? I sort of understand on the island or Ireland, but why Scotland? Having a lodge and having events is one thing, each and to their own, but what I can never get my head around is why march through streets? Go to a park, set up a stage for the bands and have bbq's or whatever, but the act of marching makes no sense in terms of commemorating anything. I'm also in the dark as to what there is Marches in Cowdenbeith, Perth, Dundee or whatever. Why loads of marches on different days in different locations? 

Re the stipulations, my point would be that if Football clubs are forced to pay for policing at games, then why would/should a march be treated any differently?

Re Adams and Foster, I've no skin in the game and what happens in NI has little to no interest to me, but what does concern me is that the ills of elsewhere are brought into Scottish society and I'm not sure what advantages it brings to the wider community. Happy to be educated if I'm wrong, but surely a good aspect could be donations and collections to local charities and kids hospitals etc. Also happy to be educated on what the specific relevance to Scotland and the locations of Marches is. Does Cowdenbeith have some particular significance for example? 

 

The Orange Order has everything to do with Scotland - it's been here since 1797 and we commemorate/celebrate events that have taken place in and been important in shaping the nation.

William of Orange was a monarch of Scotland and The Battle of the Boyne was the culmination of a Jacobite uprising simultaneously taking place both in Scotland and Ireland, also including battles such as Dunkeld and Killiecrankie.

The defeating of the Jacobite uprising by Scottish Cameronian Covenanters here and a multicultural army of Williamites in Ireland was part of a larger European power struggle, but had a huge affect on the future of everyone in the British Isles.  You've got these battles to thank for us having such of the fundamental rights we enjoy, a prime example being freedom of worship and civil and religious liberties for all.

We exist in Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, Ireland, Wales, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ghana and Togo, and just because it doesn't relate directly to battles that took place in these countries, they are still able to commemorate and celebrate.

We march through the streets because it's on the streets that people can see us.  It's standard practise for all sorts of protests/commemorations/festivals etc throughout the world.  Why should we hide away?

Marches should not pay for policing because that would restrict freedom of assembly which is enshrined in law.  The idea that we'd have to raise money just to exercise that right is counter-productive and immoral IMO.

When you speak about the ills of elsewhere what are you referring to?  And what sort of advantages to the wider community would you have in mind?  We are part of communities up and down Scotland and it's of advantages to us.

There are indeed lots of charity fundraisers, donations etc throughout the organisation.  Over Christmas, my lodge will be donating to the family of a wee girl who is having a brain operation early next year.  It'll take a bit of financial pressure off them for the constant trips to the hospital.

There's a structure to the organisation in that so many lodges make up a District Lodge and so many Districts make up a County lodge.  It's the 4 Scottish County lodges that hold the parades for their respective areas each year, and within each County districts will take turns each year to host.  The reason Cowdenbeath held the parade that year was because it was the District that includes the Cowdenbeath lodge's turn.

The 2022 County Grand Lodge of the East parade is Dalkeith.

Honestly, YB, I think a lot of people just have the wrong idea about us.  Hope that post didn't come across as overly hostile.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Scott Steiner

[Melanius Mullarkey]

In short: we hate Catholics.

[Scott Steiner]

Cheerio MM, you can be No.18 on the EEIL.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

In short: we hate Catholics.

Although seem to not have a problem with the likes of Boris Johnson or Jacob Rees Mogg

[Melanius Mullarkey]

6 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

Cheerio MM, you can be No.18 on the EEIL.

Farewell Stormzy. I’ll be here when you come back in the New Year.

[Jeff Venom]

It's actually nauseating how charity work is used to gloss over deeply repugnant views, values, actions, whatever.

Can a non-protestant join the OO in 2021? Or do you still need to be a protestant triumphalist bigot?

[Zern]

Aye, who can forget the glorious battles that took place in the fields of Ghana and Togo.

[Scott Steiner]

Open to sensible and reasonable discussion.

A couple flying close to the wind with regards to the EEIL.

One wonders why some people can't just act normal?  Why the constant need to troll?

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Do you guys want lots of posts about Scottish Cricket?

Because you’re going the right way about it