Jump to content

Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.


Pearbuyerbell

Recommended Posts

Just now, Merkland Red said:

It's politics. It's throwing enough shite at the wall and hoping some of it sticks.

Indeed, but this is what the shrieking heads are suggesting. 

They could have brazened it out and let Swinney face the VONC, which you could suggest is exactly what they would do if they had supreme confidence in their decision not to publish the advice. However, it was clear to me that he was going to lose any such vote, so why save him from that if publishing the advice was going to be the silver bullet for the FM that the right-wingers are claiming?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

The 'these latest documents show SHE HAS TO GO!!!!!!11111" pish is being totally overblown IMO.

I don't believe for one second that the party would have caved in and released the advice just to save Swinney's neck in a potential VONC'ing, if they genuinely felt it was going to further weaken and endanger the FM. Why protect an underling, who is viewed as a bit of a liability in any case, at the cost ofthrowing your overwhelmingly popular leader and figurehead under the bus instead?

 

The documents would have come to light at some point, to be seen to be hiding them would be disastrous politically. They didn't release them to save Swinney, they released them because they couldn't be seen to be obstructing the inquiry.

The documents don't show she has to go. But they absolutely show that there is either complete incompetence at the heart of the government, or something more sinister. We'll hopefully find out which. But it is not being overblown, anyone saying that clearly does not understand the nature of what was released tonight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

I don't think it is tbh. We'll see come election day I suppose. It might stop a majority, but even then, I don't think anyone but Sturgeon would deliver that.

Yeah, thats the calculus that SNP MSPs will be making. That a wounded Sturgeon (if she is even wounded - it'll be too early to tell just now) is still the best to lead the party. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of the arguments from the hardcore nicola supporters on social media accounts to nothing more than being “but the tories are c***s”.

Whatabouttery I believe it’s referred to on pie and bovril .

Corruption seems easier for them to take when it takes place in Edinburgh rather than London. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This could be our 'EdinburghCrystalnacht'. 

Leslie Evans, Peter Murrell, Murdo Fraser, Alex Salmond, ACH, Jackie Baillie, James Wolfe roused from their beds in the dead of night (coffin in Fraser's case) and 'disappeared'. State-wide media blackout tomorrow AM. Committee binned off, UDI announced before lunch, Republic declared and El Presidente Sturgeon sworn in for life shortly after. Pubs open by dinner time 8)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting it's all about whether some story or other cuts through, do the public care, will it affect the popular vote...  rather than the issue of the conduct itself.

Regardless of personalities, a crap way for politics to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, tirso said:

Interesting it's all about whether some story or other cuts through, do the public care, will it affect the popular vote...  rather than the issue of the conduct itself.

Regardless of personalities, a crap way for politics to be.

I do agree to an extent but actually, is that not the the way it should really be. Ultimately a sort of abstract 'weight of public opinion' drives everything in politics, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes. If the weight of public opinion is that Nicola Sturgeon is still seen as the best person to be FM no matter what the fall out of this is, then why should she resign? If the weight of public opinion is that she should go, then it becomes incredibly difficult for her to stay and she most likely ends up being forced to resign.

You can argue that the public have too low a bar in terms of standards. I know Tories don't want any comparison with teh behaviour of the Tory government at WM but it's exactly the same reason they've survived numerous scandals and media furores. Lots of people who hate Tories get very animated but your average Tory voter shrugs and doesn't intend to change their vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, tirso said:

It's the fact Sturgeon has told lies about when she knew. 

She's built a reputation on being trustworthy; if she's willing to mislead on this what else is she willing to mislead about?  

I say that as a big Sturgeon fan.   I'm not okay with her lying about it, even if I like her and can even see, possibly, some of the difficulties she was in.  She told parliament she knew on a specific date, knowing it was untrue.  

 

 

I'm still absolutely lost at what the advantage of this particular (apparent) lie was. 

Edited by itzdrk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I do agree to an extent but actually, is that not the the way it should really be. Ultimately a sort of abstract 'weight of public opinion' drives everything in politics, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes. If the weight of public opinion is that Nicola Sturgeon is still seen as the best person to be FM no matter what the fall out of this is, then why should she resign? If the weight of public opinion is that she should go, then it becomes incredibly difficult for her to stay and she most likely ends up being forced to resign.

You can argue that the public have too low a bar in terms of standards. I know Tories don't want any comparison with teh behaviour of the Tory government at WM but it's exactly the same reason they've survived numerous scandals and media furores. Lots of people who hate Tories get very animated but your average Tory voter shrugs and doesn't intend to change their vote.

I agree with a lot you have said. I honestly believe regardless of whether she goes or stays it might not have the massive impact Unionists think it will.

I have spoken with quite a few friends and family over last few days and while some of them are really unhappy about the whole AS affair and the mess the Scottish Govt made of court case, to a single man/woman they are all still voting SNP in May, as will I. Partly because i look at the other parties and don't see that their conduct has been any better over recent years and indeed in case of Scottish Tories we have the hypocrisy of Baroness Ruth/Douglas Ross who are happy to turn a blind eye to all the corruption of UK Govt/PM over last few years. Now remember if Scots Tories get in they would ensure we were tied much closer to that UK Govt.

Secondly and more importantly just as Brexit was the most important factor by a mile at last G.E (They even called it the Brexit election) then in this election Independence is still a major factor for a lot of voters. Just as Brexit voters didn't deviate from their goal no matter what corruption or scandal surrounded the Tories, i think it is similar in Scotland right now.

As for whether she goes that will not be down to Scots Tories/opposition but her own party. They will be looking to see the damage and weigh up if it is better for her to go or not. They might decide  that going into an election leaderless is more damaging than fighting on with her, even if she is tarnished.

The one thing that might happen if her position becomes untenable is for her to confirm that she will stand down as leader of SNP after May's elections no matter what the result. She could put forward a legitimate argument that she does not want to leave Scotland leaderless for over a month while Covid crisis is still ongoing. I think that a lot of Scottish public might consider that reasonable and some might even give her credit for staying on and fighting Pandemic even although she knows she will no longer be FM in a short time.

It might  play well with voters and actually gain her some sympathy. I am sure that some SNP members are considering this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, paolo2143 said:

I agree with a lot you have said. I honestly believe regardless of whether she goes or stays it might not have the massive impact Unionists think it will.

I have spoken with quite a few friends and family over last few days and while some of them are really unhappy about the whole AS affair and the mess the Scottish Govt made of court case, to a single man/woman they are all still voting SNP in May, as will I. Partly because i look at the other parties and don't see that their conduct has been any better over recent years and indeed in case of Scottish Tories we have the hypocrisy of Baroness Ruth/Douglas Ross who are happy to turn a blind eye to all the corruption of UK Govt/PM over last few years. Now remember if Scots Tories get in they would ensure we were tied much closer to that UK Govt.

Secondly and more importantly just as Brexit was the most important factor by a mile at last G.E (They even called it the Brexit election) then in this election Independence is still a major factor for a lot of voters. Just as Brexit voters didn't deviate from their goal no matter what corruption or scandal surrounded the Tories, i think it is similar in Scotland right now.

As for whether she goes that will not be down to Scots Tories/opposition but her own party. They will be looking to see the damage and weigh up if it is better for her to go or not. They might decide  that going into an election leaderless is more damaging than fighting on with her, even if she is tarnished.

The one thing that might happen if her position becomes untenable is for her to confirm that she will stand down as leader of SNP after May's elections no matter what the result. She could put forward a legitimate argument that she does not want to leave Scotland leaderless for over a month while Covid crisis is still ongoing. I think that a lot of Scottish public might consider that reasonable and some might even give her credit for staying on and fighting Pandemic even although she knows she will no longer be FM in a short time.

It might  play well with voters and actually gain her some sympathy. I am sure that some SNP members are considering this.

 

And lets not forget the number of lies that were told over Brexit, or the number of resignations that resulted from them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Oh my, the people who don't like Sturgeon demanding her to step down after only hearing the side of the argument they want to hear?

Colour me shocked.

It's getting to the stage where it would be more convenient for the people who don't like her if Sturgeon stays in post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The absolute hypocrisy from Douglas Ross and his pals about Sturgeon having to resign as she lied to parliament is staggering. Given his own parties mess over the last year it's interesting that they seems to have found their moral high horses just at the right time (for them!). Their moves are nothing more than political grandstanding to try and get rid of who they see as the biggest threat to the union - i'd be stunned if this didn't come from anywhere other than Tory HQ.

From the brief bits i've seen and read so far it looks pretty bad for the Scottish Government but as has been said by folks it seems incredible to be calling for votes of no-confidence and demanding resignations before Sturgeon has spoken and the full picture is known. I find it hard to believe (but not impossible) that someone with a legal background and in a position such as NS would get herself into a position where she would be 'lying' to parliament over something such as this - it's not exactly secret weapons deals. It's all going to come down to what she knew, when and what she did with that info - unless she was told directly 'this is going to fail' on a date other than she claims then there's not really much of a case for her to answer. She may well have been 'shielding' information but could flag that as not wanting to prejudice a case etc. Proceeding with a case you believe to be true even if it has a chance of failure happens all the time - especially if you feel it needs to be used as an example of taking claims seriously (to be clear, i'm not claiming this happened here but i think we might find out today). Think this has a long way to go and she seems rather bullish for someone who's on her way out.

I'm not a huge SNP fan, have voted occasionally but not every time and i'm not a huge NS fan either but this seems nothing more than an absolute witch hunt at a convenient time, if there was no May election i don't think we'd be hearing from even half of these MSPs about this

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Douglas Ross calling for Nicola Sturgeon's resignation prior to her appearing before the committee is political nonsense.

Twice this morning on GMS he was asked for his thoughts on Matt Hancock and Priti Patel breaking the ministerial code and he refused to answer.

Truth is the Scots tories are shit scared of facing the most formidable uk political opponent Nicola at the ballot box in May and are hell bent in bringing her down before then.

It could be costly for them and see them back in 3rd place behind Labour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have spoken to many SNP members like myself over the last week and everyone is solidly behind Nicola and view this whole character assassination as the usual hypocrisy from the tories, Nicola has massive support in the membership and within the country, we now have women who previously shunned her saying they will vote SNP given the stance she has made against female sexual harassment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, EdinburghPar1975 said:

The absolute hypocrisy from Douglas Ross and his pals about Sturgeon having to resign as she lied to parliament is staggering. Given his own parties mess over the last year it's interesting that they seems to have found their moral high horses just at the right time (for them!). Their moves are nothing more than political grandstanding to try and get rid of who they see as the biggest threat to the union - i'd be stunned if this didn't come from anywhere other than Tory HQ.

From the brief bits i've seen and read so far it looks pretty bad for the Scottish Government but as has been said by folks it seems incredible to be calling for votes of no-confidence and demanding resignations before Sturgeon has spoken and the full picture is known. I find it hard to believe (but not impossible) that someone with a legal background and in a position such as NS would get herself into a position where she would be 'lying' to parliament over something such as this - it's not exactly secret weapons deals. It's all going to come down to what she knew, when and what she did with that info - unless she was told directly 'this is going to fail' on a date other than she claims then there's not really much of a case for her to answer. She may well have been 'shielding' information but could flag that as not wanting to prejudice a case etc. Proceeding with a case you believe to be true even if it has a chance of failure happens all the time - especially if you feel it needs to be used as an example of taking claims seriously (to be clear, i'm not claiming this happened here but i think we might find out today). Think this has a long way to go and she seems rather bullish for someone who's on her way out.

I'm not a huge SNP fan, have voted occasionally but not every time and i'm not a huge NS fan either but this seems nothing more than an absolute witch hunt at a convenient time, if there was no May election i don't think we'd be hearing from even half of these MSPs about this

Politics. Bloody hell.

Edited by Jacksgranda
Sleppnig
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...