Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[paolo2143]

3 hours ago, AMMjag said:

I think the problem with Leslie Evans taking the hit on this is that all of the failures she is required to take the hit for, were known about at the time the FM backed herself into a corner by deciding to extend her contract. The boat has long since sailed on that and it's hard to see how she goes down without Sturgeon going with her.

My impression is that Sturgeon is terrified of internal dissent and much of the internal structure of the SNP, from Cabinet to HQ to special advisors, reflects this.

Notable from the Salmond case has been the complete absence of anyone in Sturgeon's circle who was able or willing to have a quiet word in her ear about the potential shitstorm she might just be getting herself into - you could also extend this to the tactical blunder of letting Boris Johnson out of his box by voting for the election in 2019, or increasingly populist domestic policy such as folding like a deck chair to teachers and parents on exam results in 2020.

If the party is to survive the next few years then there are many beyond just those involved in the Salmond fiasco who need to be flushed down the pan.

 

I don't completely agree with this. 

I think the FM's fate resides with James Hamilton report. If he reports that she did not break the Ministerial code or may have  inadvertently broke the code then i think she can survive.

I think there is no great desire to get rid of the FM while the pandemic is ongoing (except amongst the staunch Unionists). I was talking to a couple of friends last week, both no lovers of SNP. and they said that they felt she had handled Pandemic fairly well compared to Boris Johnson and had tried her best.

Also unless it was absolutely essential it would be political suicide for SNP members to force her out in lead up to election. She still has quite a solid fan base and is still the most popular leader in Scotland by long way at current time.

I remember the doom sayers back in 2005 saying Labour would not win a 3rd election with Tony Blair as he was damaged goods due to Iraq war. He romped home with a majority of 65, now that was a big fall from previous  two elections but sill an amazing result for your third straight election. Voters may not have liked him much and scarcely trusted him but they still in some way respected him as a leader and knew he was still much better than anything opposition had to offer.
 

I think if she survives the James Hamilton report she will stay and i think that she will still be more successful in May than SNP would be without her.
 

Edited March 1, 2021 by paolo2143

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I don't completely agree with this. 
I think the FM's fate resides with James Hamilton report. If he reports that she did not break the Ministerial code or may have  inadvertently broke the code then i think she can survive.

I think there is no great desire to get rid of the FM while the pandemic is ongoing (except amongst the staunch Unionists). I was talking to a couple of friends last week, both no lovers of SNP. and they said that they felt she had handled Pandemic fairly well compared to Boris Johnson and had tried her best.

Also unless it was absolutely essential it would be political suicide for SNP members to force her out in lead up to election. She still has quite a solid fan base and is still the most popular leader in Scotland by long way at current time.
I remember the doom sayers back in 2005 saying Labour would not win a 3rd election with Tony Blair as he was damaged goods due to Iraq war. He romped home with a majority of 65, now that was a big fall from previous  two elections but sill an amazing result for your third straight election. Voters may not have liked him much and scarcely trusted him but they still in some way respected him as a leader and knew he was still much better than anything opposition had to offer.
 
I think if she survives the James Hamilton report she will stay and i think that she will still be more successful in May than SNP would be without her.
 

Agree with that. Have the pro-Salmond moonhowlers ever definitively stated who they want to replace NS with? Obvs Eck was finished some time ago. Surely not Cherry?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I don't completely agree with this. 
I think the FM's fate resides with James Hamilton report. If he reports that she did not break the Ministerial code or may have  inadvertently broke the code then i think she can survive.

I think there is no great desire to get rid of the FM while the pandemic is ongoing (except amongst the staunch Unionists). I was talking to a couple of friends last week, both no lovers of SNP. and they said that they felt she had handled Pandemic fairly well compared to Boris Johnson and had tried her best.

Also unless it was absolutely essential it would be political suicide for SNP members to force her out in lead up to election. She still has quite a solid fan base and is still the most popular leader in Scotland by long way at current time.
I remember the doom sayers back in 2005 saying Labour would not win a 3rd election with Tony Blair as he was damaged goods due to Iraq war. He romped home with a majority of 65, now that was a big fall from previous  two elections but sill an amazing result for your third straight election. Voters may not have liked him much and scarcely trusted him but they still in some way respected him as a leader and knew he was still much better than anything opposition had to offer.
 
I think if she survives the James Hamilton report she will stay and i think that she will still be more successful in May than SNP would be without her.
 

I agree about Hamilton being far more important - he does not have any axe to grind - unlike those on the parliamentary enquiry.

[BFTD]

51 minutes ago, paolo2143 said:

I remember the doom sayers back in 2005 saying Labour would not win a 3rd election with Tony Blair as he was damaged goods due to Iraq war. He romped home with a majority of 65, now that was a big fall from previous  two elections but sill an amazing result for your third straight election. Voters may not have liked him much and scarcely trusted him but they still in some way respected him as a leader and knew he was still much better than anything opposition had to offer.

I think people massively overestimate the average voter's disgust towards war criminals.

Pretty sure that if things are going roughly OK for the average middle-class voter, BoJo won't have any problems at the polls even if our military are running hog wild in some part of the world we've invaded. So long as we're winning, of course.

[madwullie]

Re NS, on balance OP, widnae

[SANTAN]

4 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

It may interest you to know that the first tories emerged in england as Jacobites.

And again you are right the word tory is an insult, as follows;

As a political term, Tory was an insult (derived from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe, modern Irish tóraí, meaning "outlaw", "robber", from the Irish word tóir, meaning "pursuit" since outlaws were "pursued men")^[5][6] that entered English politics during the Exclusion Bill crisis of 1678–1681.

So to use the word tory as an insult is correct according to the word's origin.

The tory party in Scotland is disliked by the working classes which are in the majority, think of the Poll Tax and then the recent Bedroom Tax, both tory policies aimed at the poorer section of our society, did the bedroom tax apply to The Duke of Devonshire's Chatsworth House with it's 126 rooms?

The continuing and unnecessary cutting of benefits while looking after their rich donors is disgusting in this day and age, food banks and record homelessness as the likes of Rees Mogg talks of his nanny.

The tories bring nothing but misery and poverty as they have always done in Scotland.

Way to miss the point. 

[Baxter Parp]

23 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Re NS, on balance OP, widnae

You're not madwullie for nothing.

[SandyCromarty]

Just a wee follow on from where Stormzy posted that he disliked posters using the word tory as an insult.

He should look around the high streets, (pre pandemic), of Border towns such as Peebles, Hawick, Galashiels, Melrose and Kelso and count the amount of Charity Shops that have sprung up during this tory government.

I also came across a headline article in the Border Telegraph where they note that unemployment in the Borders had soared by 20% in a year from 2017 to 2018, and in all probability the high unemployment in the area has stayed the same.

Why any right minded person would support the tories as this is happening to their region is way beyond me.

[SANTAN]

16 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Just a wee follow on from where Stormzy posted that he disliked posters using the word tory as an insult.

He should look around the high streets, (pre pandemic), of Border towns such as Peebles, Hawick, Galashiels, Melrose and Kelso and count the amount of Charity Shops that have sprung up during this tory government.

I also came across a headline article in the Border Telegraph where they note that unemployment in the Borders had soared by 20% in a year from 2017 to 2018, and in all probability the high unemployment in the area has stayed the same.

Why any right minded person would support the tories as this is happening to their region is way beyond me.

You've missed the point entirely again. This came up when I stated I disliked all political parties and I'm not a Conservative, I don't hold any political allegiance like some weirdos on here like someone had suggested, in part of my explanation I said I dislike it when people use the word "Tory" around needlessly as an insult. It comes across quite tragic to me. 

You can use it when criticising the Tories....and when discussing politics... seems a bit pathetic when used in football chat or the general nonsense thread or even Twitter and the likes. I of course understand why some people strongly dislike the Tories. They're free to do so, I don't "support the Tories" Don't let the truth get in the way of a good shitpost though. 

You should get your camera out and wander round Galashiels like the Govanhill guy! Might get some support. 

Lastly it's funny that you don't have anything better to talk about on the Nicola Sturgeon thread, I wonder why that may be, you've spent time out of your day reading about The Borders unemployment from 2018 to get upvotes online for calling me a Tory all whilst your beloved tribal little political gang are in freefall and having the worst week of their existence but aye shitpost about Stormzy if it makes you feel better. 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Stormzy

[BFTD]

8 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Just a wee follow on from where Stormzy posted that he disliked posters using the word tory as an insult.

He should look around the high streets, (pre pandemic), of Border towns such as Peebles, Hawick, Galashiels, Melrose and Kelso and count the amount of Charity Shops that have sprung up during this tory government.

I also came across a headline article in the Border Telegraph where they note that unemployment in the Borders had soared by 20% in a year from 2017 to 2018, and in all probability the high unemployment in the area has stayed the same.

Why any right minded person would support the tories as this is happening to their region is way beyond me.

More depressingly, charity shops have been closing in recent years as they haven't been making enough money to be viable. Some charities that used to have a chain of profitable shops have pulled out of the retail market altogether. It's mainly due to people in poorer areas having so little money that they can't afford the prices anymore. Just let that sink in.

Working in charity shops, a common conversation you hear is "aye, it's as well they're closing, there's too many charity shops on the high street these days". Remarkable galaxy brain thinking that it's better for a town centre to be full of empty shops than to have something, anything operating out them.

[strichener]

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

Just a wee follow on from where Stormzy posted that he disliked posters using the word tory as an insult.

He should look around the high streets, (pre pandemic), of Border towns such as Peebles, Hawick, Galashiels, Melrose and Kelso and count the amount of Charity Shops that have sprung up during this tory government.

I also came across a headline article in the Border Telegraph where they note that unemployment in the Borders had soared by 20% in a year from 2017 to 2018, and in all probability the high unemployment in the area has stayed the same.

Why any right minded person would support the tories as this is happening to their region is way beyond me.

Are Charity shops a reserved matter?  

[BFTD]

12 minutes ago, Pato said:

I can sort of see your point but this approach is just delaying what is under our current system of government an unavoidable fate. A high street that is just barbers, tanning, kebabs, vapes and charity shops is never going to turn around and become a flourishing wee place again while our social security system is designed to punish people for the deck they were dealt.

Unless the internet disappears for some reason, the high street is dead. Most of the average town centre will be residential again before we're through. Through in Falkirk, we get regular notices from the council that a change of use has been applied for on retail outlets, as the owners have given up and want to turn them into flats.

If it really bothered people, they'd stop shopping online. In maybe thirty years' time, nobody will give a shit and will think the idea of travelling to a street in your nearest town in order to buy everything is very old-fashioned and will sound like a massive pain in the arse.

[Detournement]

The reason there are so many charity shops is that they don't have to pay business rates so they have low overheads. 

We live in a very stratified society (see the snobbery attached to supermarkets) and a lot of people don't want to use their local town centre if it means mixing with poorer people. 

 

[Dawson Park Boy]

The demise of the high street and the rise of charity shops is nothing to do with the Tories (Sandy- get a grip).

Its all to do with the rise and rise of internet shopping, a phenomenon which won’t change.

There is a place for the High Street with more residential properties and cafes, restaurants, hair and beauty and small boutique type businesses. The age of the large department store has gone for good but there is a place for town centres with a completely new configuration.

[Anonapersona]

2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Just a wee follow on from where Stormzy posted that he disliked posters using the word tory as an insult.

He should look around the high streets, (pre pandemic), of Border towns such as Peebles, Hawick, Galashiels, Melrose and Kelso and count the amount of Charity Shops that have sprung up during this tory government.

I also came across a headline article in the Border Telegraph where they note that unemployment in the Borders had soared by 20% in a year from 2017 to 2018, and in all probability the high unemployment in the area has stayed the same.

Why any right minded person would support the tories as this is happening to their region is way beyond me.

This is true. When I came over in 2019 to my hometown Galashiels I was a bit taken aback by how depressed it was.

As for Melrose, well when I was younger we always took the piss out of the place because it was such a snooty wee town. Not so much now.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

The demise of the high street and the rise of charity shops is nothing to do with the Tories (Sandy- get a grip).
Its all to do with the rise and rise of internet shopping, a phenomenon which won’t change.
There is a place for the High Street with more residential properties and cafes, restaurants, hair and beauty and small boutique type businesses. The age of the large department store has gone for good but there is a place for town centres with a completely new configuration.

That's far too simplistic. The levels of poverty and deprivation feed directly into the local economy; it's a big factor in why the High Streets of my home towns of Dumbarton and Alexandria are semi-derelict, whilst those of Bearsden, St Andrews and Stirling for example are not. Business rates are a huge factor too, but politicians seem content for huge out-of-town warehouses to pay a pittance in comparison to traditional retail. No-one should be relaxed about that...your cheap Amazon purchase today will not be cheap when they have killed off everything in their way.

[SandyCromarty]

1 hour ago, Pato said:

I can sort of see your point but this approach is just delaying what is under our current system of government an unavoidable fate. A high street that is just barbers, tanning, kebabs, vapes and charity shops is never going to turn around and become a flourishing wee place again while our social security system is designed to punish people for the deck they were dealt.

My first encounter with an empty high street/downtown was in Baton Rouge almost 40 years ago, when I asked where everybody was I was told, "Out at the Mall" and thats been the trend for some time, free parking with central food courts and plentifiul shops has been the revolution, and now online shopping is changing that too.

I better add Nicola to please Stormzy.

Nicola Sturgeon is the uk's most able politician, streets ahead of Blow Job and his gang and more than capable of holding her won this week and any other week.

[Dawson Park Boy]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

21 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

The demise of the high street and the rise of charity shops is nothing to do with the Tories (Sandy- get a grip).
Its all to do with the rise and rise of internet shopping, a phenomenon which won’t change.
There is a place for the High Street with more residential properties and cafes, restaurants, hair and beauty and small boutique type businesses. The age of the large department store has gone for good but there is a place for town centres with a completely new configuration.

That's far too simplistic. The levels of poverty and deprivation feed directly into the local economy; it's a big factor in why the High Streets of my home towns of Dumbarton and Alexandria are semi-derelict, whilst those of Bearsden, St Andrews and Stirling for example are not. Business rates are a huge factor too, but politicians seem content for huge out-of-town warehouses to pay a pittance in comparison to traditional retail. No-one should be relaxed about that...your cheap Amazon purchase today will not be cheap when they have killed off everything in their way.

Regarding business rates, small shops get 100% reduction (I think it’s around 10000sq. Ft.)

I think that should be increased to encourage slightly larger shops.

Also, in my area, the council are actively encouraging developers to convert upstairs properties into private flats.

Its making a difference already.

Do agree that politicians can do a lot to transfer their local town centres into welcoming, vibrant areas where people want to spend time.

[NotThePars]

35 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

The demise of the high street and the rise of charity shops is nothing to do with the Tories (Sandy- get a grip).

Its all to do with the rise and rise of internet shopping, a phenomenon which won’t change.

There is a place for the High Street with more residential properties and cafes, restaurants, hair and beauty and small boutique type businesses. The age of the large department store has gone for good but there is a place for town centres with a completely new configuration.

Your last paragraph can directly contradict your first one if the latter isn't happening in high streets.

[Dawson Park Boy]

11 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Your last paragraph can directly contradict your first one if the latter isn't happening in high streets.

What I’m saying is that things will never be the same in High Streets as previous.

But, with a Good Council and some ingenuity ,including promotion of residential flats, the problem can be greatly mitigated.