Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

11 minutes ago, GordonS said:

It's not driven by prejudice on both sides, that's an utter cop-out. It's driven by prejudice on one side, and one side only. You just can't, or won't, tell the difference between the bigotry and the fight back against it. It's all just noise to you.

You're like the eejits who say Antifa are the same as the fascists.

As for "trans debate"... do you refer to feminism as the "women debate"? Is Black Lives Matter part of the "Black debate"? There is a debate over things like gender recognition. Describing it as "the trans debate" is out of order.

Sturgeon definitely supports trans rights, but she's trying to hold the party together at a critical time. Whichever way she goes she's going to alienate a huge chunk of her party, yet she nailed her colours to the mast and called her own colleagues transphobes. Anyone who takes her words tonight at less than face value is showing nothing but their own bitter and ignorant cynicism.

Just because you're not for real, don't assume everyone else is too.

Hysterical, ill-informed nonsense...

I referred to it as the 'trans debate' precisely because it isn't a debate: it's just people howling at each other, going nowhere, no attempt to forge legal and social solutions that will actually work and satisfy the various parties who feel their rights are not being protected. There are loud fools on both sides of the 'debate', whether you want to see it or not; I can tell very well the difference and similarities between them.

And where do you get the pish about Antifa and the fascists? What did I say to justify that nonsense?

You save the best for last, though... Sturgeon is 'trying to hold the party together at a critical time'?! Sturgeon has become like any other system politician, now desperately fighting like a rat in a sack to save her own skin. She doesn't even know what she thinks or believes in. 'Bitter and ignorant cynicism' is in fact a perfect label for the inner circle of Sturgeon's SNP.

Try dealing with what's actuality going on ('for real'), rather than virtue-signalling your wee arse off...

 

 

[Erih Shtrep]

25 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Why is this spamming bigoted cretin not been emptied yet? Fucking hell.

He's entitled to his opinion.   I don't agree with him but his views make up about 40% of the population.   

I read recently ( because I don't really care too much about it ) LGBT has turned into LGBTQIS2+   I've no idea what the 2nd half of that means but I'm unsure whether this needs to evolve into multiple-segmentation of everyone that might present themselves as being queer.   Perhaps it does and I'm happy to read links form anyone about it.  

Edited January 27, 2021 by Erih Shtrep

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

2 minutes ago, Erih Shtrep said:

He's entitled to his opinion.   I don't agree with him but his views make up about 40% of the population.   

I read recently ( because I don't really care too much about it ) LGBT has turned into LGBTQIS2+   I've no idea what the 2nd half of that means but I'm unsure whether this needs to evolve into multiple-segmentation of everyone that might present themselves as being queer.   Perhaps it does and I'm happy to read links for anyone about it.  

Thank you.

And I do not spam, spamming is posting lots of stuff irrelevant to the subject being discussed.

This is a forum, I am entitled to air my views, and I do so without targeting other posters.

I have been called a bigoted cretin, a piece of shit, god knows what else on this thread, and that's apparently okay.

[John Lambies Doos]

Wow
This is nothing to do with 'human rights' lol. A trans person has every single right everybody else does, identical, there isn't a single right any member of society has that trans people do not, and that is protected in law. As it should be.  
Its not like gay people in the 70's who were criminalised and discriminated against in law. That is not the case here, and people presenting it as such are lying to themselves or you. 
If anyone can name one legal right I have that a trans person does not I'll never post again....

I think you missed my point tbf, re. the Trans debate I don't have much of an opinion if I'm honest as I really don't have any skin in the game.
Everyone should be treated equally and as long as that's enshrined in law I've bigger fish to fry like the Salmond/Sturgeon debacle.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

I think you missed my point tbf, re. the Trans debate I don't have much of an opinion if I'm honest as I really don't have any skin in the game.
Everyone should be treated equally and as long as that's enshrined in law I've bigger fish to fry like the Salmond/Sturgeon debacle.

Me too, and they are. That's the law. So people presenting it as a human rights issue are lying. 

I don't care that much for the Salmond/Sturgeon thing either tbh, he didn't go to jail and was proven innocent, the rest I can't find the energy to be that bothered about.

[John Lambies Doos]

Me too, and they are. That's the law. So people presenting it as a human rights issue are lying. 
I don't care that much for the Salmond/Sturgeon thing either tbh, he didn't go to jail and was proven innocent, the rest I can't find the energy to be that bothered about.

I'm just a tad worried about the timing, not sure it will make huge difference but might sway very soft soft no's that might go yes.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

I actually dropped into the 'Nicola Sturgeon' thread to see if anybody had anything to say about, eh, Nicola Sturgeon...

Amazed (although maybe I shouldn't be) that the enormity of what's coming hasn't really begun to filter through yet...

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

2 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

3 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Me too, and they are. That's the law. So people presenting it as a human rights issue are lying. 
I don't care that much for the Salmond/Sturgeon thing either tbh, he didn't go to jail and was proven innocent, the rest I can't find the energy to be that bothered about.

I'm just a tad worried about the timing, not sure it will make huge difference but might sway very soft soft no's that might go yes.

Aye, if it brings down Sturgeon its a disaster a few weeks before an election and hell mend her for jeopardising things at such a critical time, but if not I just don't care that much.  My SNP vote is not for any one individual.

[vikingTON]

34 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Sturgeon definitely supports trans rights, but she's trying to hold the party together at a critical time. Whichever way she goes she's going to alienate a huge chunk of her party, 

There's no valid reason why this inconsequential non-issue in the Grand Scheme of the Priorities of Scotland in 2021 should be having this sort of effect in any political party. It is a complete nonsense wedge issue that the SNP should be leaving well alone, regardless of what a handful of folk on Twitter might have to say about it. 99% of people do not actually care about this either way.

Leave it to parliamentary committees and a free vote to determine, it's that straightforward.

 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

I actually dropped into the 'Nicola Sturgeon' thread to see if anybody had anything to say about, eh, Nicola Sturgeon...

Amazed (although maybe I shouldn't be) that the enormity of what's coming hasn't really begun to filter through yet...

If that's the way it goes it is a massive story and she will have done enormous damage to the party and cause of independence so not only should step down as FM but be expelled from the party. And some of the stuff I've read is incredibly damning.

But we will have to wait and see what the outcome is so I'm reserving judgement till then.

[Erih Shtrep]

32 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

If that's the way it goes it is a massive story and she will have done enormous damage to the party and cause of independence so not only should step down as FM but be expelled from the party. And some of the stuff I've read is incredibly damning.

But we will have to wait and see what the outcome is so I'm reserving judgement till then.

PLEASE STOP READING WINGS AS GOSPEL.  

He's the cause for your messages here tonight.  He's the root cause for SNP infighting.  He's now the "Go to guy" for Ruth Davidson to others to quote.  He didn't want us to vote SNP last time out and will appeal to his readers to do the same this time.   

Rev Campbell will be absolutely gutted if Nicola Sturgeon leads Scotland to independence.  He's not like me or you or many on this forum.  Potentially he could track down and kill Kez Dugdale.    I've met both and they're really nice women.  He isn't, he's an arsehole.   

Edited January 27, 2021 by Erih Shtrep

[The Ghost of B A R P]

1 minute ago, Erih Shtrep said:

PLEASE STOP READING WINGS AS GOSPEL.  

He's the cause for your messages here tonight.  He's the root cause for SNP infighting.  He's now the "Go too guy" for Ruth Davidson to others to quote.  He didn't want us to vote SNP last time out and will appeal to his readers to do the same this time.   

Rev Campbell will be absolutely gutted if Nicola Sturgeon leads Scotland to independence.  He's not like me or you or many on this forum.  Potentially he could track down and kill Kez Dugdale.    I've met both and they're really nice women.  He isn't, he's an arsehole.   

Wake up, mate... this isn't about a blogger from Bath...

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

I know, that's the point I'm making, that's why a Tory introduced this amendment, its dropping a hand grenade in the SNP and running away.  

I completely agree with this - the point of this debate is to suck in all the oxygen in the room over a non-issue. Just like the Parnell divorce scandal undid the Irish Home Rule movement in the 1890s when it held the balance of power to determine the terms of Ireland's exit from the UK. History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes well enough.

I'm not convinced that it will derail independence itself because - unlike that scandal - next to nobody gives a toss about this issue. It's also too politically toxic to be used directly in an election/referendum campaign without backfiring badly. There needs to be an adult in the room though to knock Sturgeon, Cherry, Salmond etc.'s heads together promptly and remind them that isn't actually about them or some Wars of Religion-esque attachment to bathroom access. It is this absolutely fucking pointless infighting that could undo the independence cause, not the issue itself.

Edited January 27, 2021 by vikingTON

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Just now, Erih Shtrep said:

PLEASE STOP READING WINGS AS GOSPEL.  

He's the cause for your messages here tonight.  He's the root cause for SNP infighting.  He's now the "Go too guy" for Ruth Davidson to others to quote.  He didn't want us to vote SNP last time out and will appeal to his readers to do the same this time.   

Rev Campbell will be absolutely gutted if Nicola Sturgeon leads Scotland to independence.  He's not like me or you or many on this forum.  Potentially he could track down and kill Kez Dugdale.    I've met both and they're really nice women.  He isn't, he's an arsehole.   

I'm actually Ip banned from posting on Wings site for giving him shit.  Cause he's a bit of a fanny.  So to call me a Wings apologist is wrong.

Dugdale is vermin. Everyone can be nice in interpersonal interactions. Stalin was known to be incredibly charming when he wanted to be. She is someone who regularly insulted half the population of Scotland and told people to vote Tory, before leading Labour to 14% in the country that founded it. I don't doubt she can be nice and is probably well intentioned, but she's a dangerous idiot far too sure of her convictions and motivations, and I guarantee you a million per cent she doesn't even know what socialism is.

Ask her to define socialism (bearing in mind she is from the right of the party and baulked at many Corbyn policies as being too extreme) and she wouldn't be able to do so. But an entire country has to be subject to Tory governments we reject at the ballot box three quarters of our lives cause she's a 'socialist'.

Sturgeon I've always liked.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

I completely agree with this - the point of this debate is to suck in all the oxygen in the room over a non-issue. Just like the Parnell divorce scandal undid the Irish Home Rule movement in the 1890s when it held the balance of power to determine the terms of Ireland's exit from the UK. History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes well enough.

I'm not convinced that it will derail independence itself because - unlike that scandal - next to nobody gives a toss about this issue. It's also too politically toxic to be used directly in an election/referendum campaign without backfiring badly. There needs to be an adult in the room to knock Sturgeon, Cherry, Salmond etc.'s heads together and remind them that isn't about them or some wars of religion-esque attachment to bathroom access. It is the absolutely fucking pointless infighting that could undo the independence cause, not the issue itself.

Its doing an awful lot of damage, and its now not about those individuals they can sort something out and it wouldn't fix it, its in the minds of voters now.

A good example would be this, Labour is not an anti-semitic party, it does not have a particularly large or unusual problem with anti-semitism. But still anti-semitism brought down Corbyn.  This could do the same to the SNP, and remember they don't have to lose an election, just not get a majority. Its very dangerous and very damaging.

[Erih Shtrep]

6 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

I'm actually Ip banned from posting on Wings site for giving him shit.  Cause he's a bit of a fanny.  So to call me a Wings apologist is wrong.

Dugdale is vermin. Everyone can be nice in interpersonal interactions. Stalin was known to be incredibly charming when he wanted to be. She is someone who regularly insulted half the population of Scotland and told people to vote Tory, before leading Labour to 14% in the country that founded it. I don't doubt she can be nice and is probably well intentioned, but she's a dangerous idiot far too sure of her convictions and motivations, and I guarantee you a million per cent she doesn't even know what socialism is.

Ask her to define socialism (bearing in mind she is from the right of the party and baulked at many Corbyn policies as being too extreme) and she wouldn't be able to do so. But an entire country has to be subject to Tory governments we reject at the ballot box three quarters of our lives cause she's a 'socialist'.

Sturgeon I've always liked.

I've met her 3 times and I like her.  I thought she was fine in opposition and a world away from Anas Sarwar.   I used to get too tribal about other leaders but I've no issues with the likes of Annabel Goldie, or Richard Leonard and Kez was also absolutely fine which is why she remains good pals with Nicola Sturgeon.  

The c***s in the SP are folk like:   

1.  Alex Cole-Hamilton 
2.  Anas Sarwar. 
3.  Ruth Davidson.  
4.  Willie Rennie.  
5.  Annie Wells 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

7 minutes ago, Erih Shtrep said:

I've met her 3 times and I like her.  I thought she was fine in opposition and a world away from Anas Sarwar.   I used to get too tribal about other leaders but I've no issues with the likes of Annabel Goldie, or Richard Leonard and Kez was also absolutely fine which is why she remains good pals with Nicola Sturgeon.  

The c***s in the SP are folk like:   

1.  Alex Cole-Hamilton 
2.  Anas Sarwar. 
3.  Ruth Davidson.  
4.  Willie Rennie.  
5.  Annie Wells 

I do have a problem with people who want to deny a country democracy as they know how they'll vote. I'll never respect people who have that attitude. I have no doubt those five are c***s too, but being a nice person to talk to doesn't excuse Dugdale for me.

In other news, the woke Nazis are now demanding an independent inquiry into transphobia in the SNP. Who would have thought if you bow to the demands of children they will add other demands too, shocker.  This will cost us independence, and 99% of the people doing it are not trans and are about 16 years old in most cases. Its so sad an electoral behemoth is now beholden to a tiny group of nutcases.

[Erih Shtrep]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

If you think I'm going to repost your tweets about that damaged pervert in Alberta you dug up, or all these fat beardy people in dresses you found on bath boy's twitter feed to laugh at, or that rugby thing you posted today, you're mistaken. I'm going to take @DA Baracus 's advice and stick you on ignore. Life's too short to share it with people so easily led into outright cuntery over people you've never encountered and know nothing about. 

I thought you a better judge.   I've been here 13 years and by far one poster stands alone as the worst in the website's history and it isn't RabB, or whatever.   

So many have tried to help DA Baracus  and his abuse is unbelievable.  At least CYG gives you an opinion DAB is just outright abusive and is the worst poster in the history of P and B.  

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I've met her 3 times and I like her.  I thought she was fine in opposition and a world away from Anas Sarwar.   I used to get too tribal about other leaders but I've no issues with the likes of Annabel Goldie, or Richard Leonard and Kez was also absolutely fine which is why she remains good pals with Nicola Sturgeon.  

The c***s in the SP are folk like:   

1.  Alex Cole-Hamilton 
2.  Anas Sarwar. 
3.  Ruth Davidson.  
4.  Willie Rennie.  
5.  Annie Wells 

Sarwar should be 1.

Shite politics and a slum landlord.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

It's not driven by prejudice on both sides, that's an utter cop-out. It's driven by prejudice on one side, and one side only. You just can't, or won't, tell the difference between the bigotry and the fight back against it. It's all just noise to you.

You're like the eejits who say Antifa are the same as the fascists.

As for "trans debate"... do you refer to feminism as the "women debate"? Is Black Lives Matter part of the "Black debate"? There is a debate over things like gender recognition. Describing it as "the trans debate" is out of order.

Sturgeon definitely supports trans rights, but she's trying to hold the party together at a critical time. Whichever way she goes she's going to alienate a huge chunk of her party, yet she nailed her colours to the mast and called her own colleagues transphobes. Anyone who takes her words tonight at less than face value is showing nothing but their own bitter and ignorant cynicism.

Just because you're not for real, don't assume everyone else is too.

 

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

My point was general not specific. Of course that's unacceptable.
SNP, particularly Salmond v Sturgeon is imploding at wrong time.

To use the argument that all the ba’athites are using on its head, it’s amazing that Cherry et al are willing to sacrifice almost nailed on independence just because of their bigotry. Its amazing that Salmond is willing to sacrifice almost nailed on independence just because of his failure to accept hes a dirty lecherous wee man. 
Saw someone refer to wings over stuarts ego as ‘Rev’ stu, can we please not do that? Its no different to calling Stephen Yaxley Lennon ‘Tommy Robinson’, funny though both have similar personality traits as do their followers.