Boo Khaki Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) The 'these latest documents show SHE HAS TO GO!!!!!!11111" pish is being totally overblown IMO. I don't believe for one second that the party would have caved in and released the advice just to save Swinney's neck in a potential VONC'ing, if they genuinely felt it was going to further weaken and endanger the FM. Why protect an underling, who is viewed as a bit of a liability in any case, at the cost of throwing your overwhelmingly popular leader and figurehead under the bus instead? Edited March 2, 2021 by Boo Khaki 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Hmmm. Is the media starting to back peddle now ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Oh my, the people who don't like Sturgeon demanding her to step down after only hearing the side of the argument they want to hear? Colour me shocked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: The 'these latest documents show SHE HAS TO GO!!!!!!11111" pish is being totally overblown IMO. I don't believe for one second that the party would have caved in and released the advice just to save Swinney's neck in a potential VONC'ing, if they genuinely felt it was going to further weaken and endanger the FM. Why protect an underling, who is viewed as a bit of a liability in any case, at the cost of throwing your overwhelmingly popular leader and figurehead under the bus instead? It's politics. It's throwing enough shite at the wall and hoping some of it sticks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 I'll still vote for her and can see how she might have ended up in this position. But if you believe she's told the truth in this affair and not misled parliament to cover up her knowledge, I've a bridge to sell you. It leaves a bad taste and leaves me wondering what else she'd lie about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: ^^ What he said. I don't think the general public care enough. Sturgeon is still massively popular even if this does dent it somewhat. It is starting to cut through and public opinion changes quickly. Especially if it's an endless drip drip drip for the next 12 weeks. It's death by a thousand cuts. It'll be interesting to see if she sacks anyone once the committee reports back. She tried to hold onto the CMO and reluctantly sacked her in the end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 (edited) The only reason it's even trending is because every Scottish Tory have been given a directive to get on social media and go for it to perform a united front and publicly call for it. Like so: Jackson Carlaw's lack of effort is particularly inspiring. It's harder to find a Scottish Tory who's not giving it laldi right now and it's clearly been a directive order given by Douglas Ross. Edited March 2, 2021 by Ludo*1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, tirso said: I'll still vote for her and can see how she might have ended up in this position. But if you believe she's told the truth in this affair and not misled parliament to cover up her knowledge, I've a bridge to sell you. It leaves a bad taste and leaves me wondering what else she'd lie about. That's where I am to be honest. I'll vote for Independence every time. This isn't anything I'm going to get too upset about. Didn't get too upset about the shitstorm the Tories caused last year either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Just now, Trogdor said: It is starting to cut through and public opinion changes quickly. Especially if it's an endless drip drip drip for the next 12 weeks. It's death by a thousand cuts. It'll be interesting to see if she sacks anyone once the committee reports back. She tried to hold onto the CMO and reluctantly sacked her in the end. I don't think it is tbh. We'll see come election day I suppose. It might stop a majority, but even then, I don't think anyone but Sturgeon would deliver that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Just now, Merkland Red said: It's politics. It's throwing enough shite at the wall and hoping some of it sticks. Indeed, but this is what the shrieking heads are suggesting. They could have brazened it out and let Swinney face the VONC, which you could suggest is exactly what they would do if they had supreme confidence in their decision not to publish the advice. However, it was clear to me that he was going to lose any such vote, so why save him from that if publishing the advice was going to be the silver bullet for the FM that the right-wingers are claiming? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said: The 'these latest documents show SHE HAS TO GO!!!!!!11111" pish is being totally overblown IMO. I don't believe for one second that the party would have caved in and released the advice just to save Swinney's neck in a potential VONC'ing, if they genuinely felt it was going to further weaken and endanger the FM. Why protect an underling, who is viewed as a bit of a liability in any case, at the cost ofthrowing your overwhelmingly popular leader and figurehead under the bus instead? The documents would have come to light at some point, to be seen to be hiding them would be disastrous politically. They didn't release them to save Swinney, they released them because they couldn't be seen to be obstructing the inquiry. The documents don't show she has to go. But they absolutely show that there is either complete incompetence at the heart of the government, or something more sinister. We'll hopefully find out which. But it is not being overblown, anyone saying that clearly does not understand the nature of what was released tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 The assertion that the press is against the SNP doesn't really hold when you see that tomorrow's main story on the Record frontpage is about a prison warden breaking lockdown rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Just now, Ludo*1 said: I don't think it is tbh. We'll see come election day I suppose. It might stop a majority, but even then, I don't think anyone but Sturgeon would deliver that. Yeah, thats the calculus that SNP MSPs will be making. That a wounded Sturgeon (if she is even wounded - it'll be too early to tell just now) is still the best to lead the party. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Some of the arguments from the hardcore nicola supporters on social media accounts to nothing more than being “but the tories are c***s”. Whatabouttery I believe it’s referred to on pie and bovril . Corruption seems easier for them to take when it takes place in Edinburgh rather than London. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 The Tories talking about corruption in another party is like Hitler saying Mugabe was a bit of a cnut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 This could be our 'EdinburghCrystalnacht'. Leslie Evans, Peter Murrell, Murdo Fraser, Alex Salmond, ACH, Jackie Baillie, James Wolfe roused from their beds in the dead of night (coffin in Fraser's case) and 'disappeared'. State-wide media blackout tomorrow AM. Committee binned off, UDI announced before lunch, Republic declared and El Presidente Sturgeon sworn in for life shortly after. Pubs open by dinner time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Interesting it's all about whether some story or other cuts through, do the public care, will it affect the popular vote... rather than the issue of the conduct itself. Regardless of personalities, a crap way for politics to be. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 15 minutes ago, tirso said: Interesting it's all about whether some story or other cuts through, do the public care, will it affect the popular vote... rather than the issue of the conduct itself. Regardless of personalities, a crap way for politics to be. I do agree to an extent but actually, is that not the the way it should really be. Ultimately a sort of abstract 'weight of public opinion' drives everything in politics, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes. If the weight of public opinion is that Nicola Sturgeon is still seen as the best person to be FM no matter what the fall out of this is, then why should she resign? If the weight of public opinion is that she should go, then it becomes incredibly difficult for her to stay and she most likely ends up being forced to resign. You can argue that the public have too low a bar in terms of standards. I know Tories don't want any comparison with teh behaviour of the Tory government at WM but it's exactly the same reason they've survived numerous scandals and media furores. Lots of people who hate Tories get very animated but your average Tory voter shrugs and doesn't intend to change their vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, tirso said: It's the fact Sturgeon has told lies about when she knew. She's built a reputation on being trustworthy; if she's willing to mislead on this what else is she willing to mislead about? I say that as a big Sturgeon fan. I'm not okay with her lying about it, even if I like her and can even see, possibly, some of the difficulties she was in. She told parliament she knew on a specific date, knowing it was untrue. I'm still absolutely lost at what the advantage of this particular (apparent) lie was. Edited March 3, 2021 by itzdrk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paolo2143 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: I do agree to an extent but actually, is that not the the way it should really be. Ultimately a sort of abstract 'weight of public opinion' drives everything in politics, even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes. If the weight of public opinion is that Nicola Sturgeon is still seen as the best person to be FM no matter what the fall out of this is, then why should she resign? If the weight of public opinion is that she should go, then it becomes incredibly difficult for her to stay and she most likely ends up being forced to resign. You can argue that the public have too low a bar in terms of standards. I know Tories don't want any comparison with teh behaviour of the Tory government at WM but it's exactly the same reason they've survived numerous scandals and media furores. Lots of people who hate Tories get very animated but your average Tory voter shrugs and doesn't intend to change their vote. I agree with a lot you have said. I honestly believe regardless of whether she goes or stays it might not have the massive impact Unionists think it will. I have spoken with quite a few friends and family over last few days and while some of them are really unhappy about the whole AS affair and the mess the Scottish Govt made of court case, to a single man/woman they are all still voting SNP in May, as will I. Partly because i look at the other parties and don't see that their conduct has been any better over recent years and indeed in case of Scottish Tories we have the hypocrisy of Baroness Ruth/Douglas Ross who are happy to turn a blind eye to all the corruption of UK Govt/PM over last few years. Now remember if Scots Tories get in they would ensure we were tied much closer to that UK Govt. Secondly and more importantly just as Brexit was the most important factor by a mile at last G.E (They even called it the Brexit election) then in this election Independence is still a major factor for a lot of voters. Just as Brexit voters didn't deviate from their goal no matter what corruption or scandal surrounded the Tories, i think it is similar in Scotland right now. As for whether she goes that will not be down to Scots Tories/opposition but her own party. They will be looking to see the damage and weigh up if it is better for her to go or not. They might decide that going into an election leaderless is more damaging than fighting on with her, even if she is tarnished. The one thing that might happen if her position becomes untenable is for her to confirm that she will stand down as leader of SNP after May's elections no matter what the result. She could put forward a legitimate argument that she does not want to leave Scotland leaderless for over a month while Covid crisis is still ongoing. I think that a lot of Scottish public might consider that reasonable and some might even give her credit for staying on and fighting Pandemic even although she knows she will no longer be FM in a short time. It might play well with voters and actually gain her some sympathy. I am sure that some SNP members are considering this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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