Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[D.A.F.C]

6 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

Agreed entirely. As perfectly illustrated here, they get very defensive to outside opinions. 

I think they are in the minority though tbf, I've probably had more positive interactions with people here whence you learn how to steer through the shit! 

Good that you're doing that i can't really deal with the hassle tbh and it puts me off. Still voting yes but I would like to question some of the reasons but feel it will just end in a bunfight.

[Rodhull]

2 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

So what point exactly are you trying to make here? 

You've  made no coherent points at all in this whole discussion, this started when you called me out for something then couldn't back it up or provide any examples and now you're ranting about nothing, you've made numerous posts where it's blatantly obvious you've not understood what you're replying to. I've not went for any pity party posts as you put it at all, I've explained i get on fine with most people, then there's the equivalent of pish stained jakeys like yourself shouting at me because your a small minded yes da. What else needs further explained? Could you actually make a point or stop quoting me as it's extremely tedious, I can only imagine how eye bleedingly bad it must be for other people to have to read it. 

Couldn’t back what up? I said for someone who claims to be critical of Tories you don’t do a lot of actual criticising of them. Am I to produce the evidence that doesn’t exist to prove it?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Fair exposition.
Regarding there being no concrete evidence, surely it is time that the evidence, which apparently doesn’t identify the complainants, should see the light of day. Salmond suggested that if the committee contacted his lawyers, they would have it by Monday morning.
Because of the UK wide interest, it is inevitable that everything will eventually come out. The Scottish journos have proved useless but I don’t see the UK ones being quite so compliant in getting to the truth.

Hearsay and opinion are not evidence.

It looks to me very much one person's word against another.

[SANTAN]

1 minute ago, Rodhull said:

Couldn’t back what up? I said for someone who claims to be critical of Tories you don’t do a lot of actual criticising of them. Am I to produce the evidence that doesn’t exist to prove it?

You then acknowledged you've not been through my posts so wouldn't know anyway. 

I said that I dont support political parties like football teams, you've implied this isn't true and have nothing to back this up with other than you don't think it's true. I acknowledge if you are an entrenched moon howler it must be a radical thought but for most people it's not exactly far fetched. 

[SANTAN]

5 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Good that you're doing that i can't really deal with the hassle tbh and it puts me off. Still voting yes but I would like to question some of the reasons but feel it will just end in a bunfight.

I don't blame you tbh! I'm working today so ironically need something to occupy myself with

Aye undoubtedly the usual suspects would call you a Yoon, quisling or whatever trendy insult is vogue. As has been said there's definitely posters here that would be happy to constructively discuss things but can sometimes be difficult to hear such voices through the usual screeches. 

[Saltire]

This coming week is a seminal moment in the cause of independence. Nicola Sturgeon can calm things down and allow the SNP to focus on the May elections and independence or fan the flames of a minor division into something much more significant.

Alex Salmond was a hero and took the independence movement to the cusp of achieving that goal. His frailties were never in political debate or competence. It appears that there were elements of his behaviour that fell below that expected of the leader of a government. A botched internal process, and a criminal case where he was found not guilty have allowed the enemies of independence an opportunity to attack.

My charitable take on this is that Leslie Evans is guilty of malicious incompetence. At worst, it was an orchestrated attempt to claim the prize of toppling Alex Salmond and the cause of independence. When the internal process was such a disaster, the criminal route was selected and ran its course. Evans and Judith MacKinnon cannot survive this. Neither, I believe, can Peter Murrell.

What a position for Nicola Sturgeon to be put in. A close friend and mentor accused of improper behaviour and in the background, allegations of civil servants scouting for incidences of it. Where do you go with that that?

You must let due process follow and you cannot be seen to interfere. It looks like some in the SNP then decided to get everything on the table that could possibly be considered improper conduct. There would be no way back for the party from shielding or hindering investigations into those allegations.  That is what would be a tinpot dictatorship.

There are now so many players here scrambling for fig leaves across party, government, and crown office. Unedifying, but not irrecoverable.

A hostile media has relished the opportunity to attack the SNP. Former elected politicians who are now columnists, in the remnants of the Scottish press, have free reign to foam at the mouth with lurid headlines and make free with language that attacks the integrity of ordinary people who support democracy and the right for decisions about Scotland to be made in Scotland. I am not a racist nor a “narrow nationalist”.

I am sad that it has come to this, but the best outcome from this week is a conciliatory ending that at least begins to lput this behind us. Alex Salmond has had is day, he is damaged no matter what and cannot make a comeback. Nicola Sturgeon can start to heal wounds and get us back on course for a better, outward looking, independent Scotland.

[SandyCromarty]

3 hours ago, Stormzy said:

It's very simple. 

2 people on here constantly red dot everything I say, they are Yes Das. This is why I have such a low record. 

Everyone else acts normally and therefore on average I get positive votes and have good conversations with people all over this forum regularly. 

Again, this would all be solved if you could read properly. 

And you wonder why posters red dot you.

You've just accused us all of being unable to read.

Honestly you are something else.

[SANTAN]

9 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

And you wonder why posters red dot you.

You've just accused us all of being unable to read.

Honestly you are something else.

I don't wonder why at all...

Here's the sad part, I wasn't accusing everyone of being unable to read just that poster specifically and his comprehension, not his ability to actually read words but ironically if that's what you think i said then I've got a surprise for you. 

[SandyCromarty]

3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Hearsay and opinion are not evidence.

It looks to me very much one person's word against another.

Not so sure about that, I looked at Defamation in Scots Law and came across the following;

113. The Scots law of defamation recognises a difference between comment and a statement of fact. Comments (which include opinion) can be recognised by readers as a point of view, and as such they can either be agreed or disagreed with.

So it would seem that by expressing an opinion, written or spoken, you are commenting on a persons character and it can be used in evidence.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Not so sure about that, I looked at Defamation in Scots Law and came across the following;
113. The Scots law of defamation recognises a difference between comment and a statement of fact. Comments (which include opinion) can be recognised by readers as a point of view, and as such they can either be agreed or disagreed with.
So it would seem that by expressing an opinion, written or spoken, you are commenting on a persons character and it can be used in evidence.

That's not what we are talking about here though.

The opinions where there is disagreement is about events and not character.

Salmond has an opinion about a meeting, for example, that he did not attend.

I think that something happened at a meeting I did not attend is not exactly the best evidence.

It still comes down to one person's view vs another's.

[SandyCromarty]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That's not what we are talking about here though.

The opinions where there is disagreement is about events and not character.

Salmond has an opinion about a meeting, for example, that he did not attend.

I think that something happened at a meeting I did not attend is not exactly the best evidence.

It still comes down to one person's view vs another's.

I quoted Defamation in Scots Law which you rightly point out.

However it is possible, outside the character defamation law, that in other areas of the law an opinion could be used as evidence.

I can't be arsed researching that though.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I quoted Defamation in Scots Law which you rightly point out.
However it is possible, outside the character defamation law, that in other areas of the law an opinion could be used as evidence.
I can't be arsed researching that though.

You can get expert opinion on a subject but that again is quite different.

[SandyCromarty]

5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

18 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

I quoted Defamation in Scots Law which you rightly point out.
However it is possible, outside the character defamation law, that in other areas of the law an opinion could be used as evidence.
I can't be arsed researching that though.

You can get expert opinion on a subject but that again is quite different.

Google 'opinion evidence' it's as far as I got and right now it's beer and grub time.

[St-ow!]

Sturgeon being given the dreaded vote of confidence by that Blackford guy today. 

The writing's on the wall for our wee Nippy Sweetie, methinks.

Never mind - that Kate Forbes ladyperson will be an excellent replacement.

[Baxter Parp]

56 minutes ago, St-ow! said:

Sturgeon being given the dreaded vote of confidence by that Blackford guy today. 

The writing's on the wall for our wee Nippy Sweetie, methinks.

Never mind - that Kate Forbes ladyperson will be an excellent replacement.

deluded
/dɪˈluːdɪd/

adjective
believing something that is not true.
"the poor deluded creature"

[AsimButtHitsASix]

On 27/02/2021 at 11:03, Stormzy said:

 I dont particularly like when people use "Tory" as an insult which happens regularly on here and I often call it out.

^Tory patter

[54_and_counting]

On 27/02/2021 at 13:23, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Hearsay and opinion are not evidence.

It looks to me very much one person's word against another.

You should be luke mitchells lawyer, thats all they had and they managed to lock him up for 17 years lol

[AMMjag]

On 27/02/2021 at 13:47, Saltire said:

 

My charitable take on this is that Leslie Evans is guilty of malicious incompetence. At worst, it was an orchestrated attempt to claim the prize of toppling Alex Salmond and the cause of independence. When the internal process was such a disaster, the criminal route was selected and ran its course. Evans and Judith MacKinnon cannot survive this. Neither, I believe, can Peter Murrell.

 

I think the problem with Leslie Evans taking the hit on this is that all of the failures she is required to take the hit for, were known about at the time the FM backed herself into a corner by deciding to extend her contract. The boat has long since sailed on that and it's hard to see how she goes down without Sturgeon going with her.

My impression is that Sturgeon is terrified of internal dissent and much of the internal structure of the SNP, from Cabinet to HQ to special advisors, reflects this.

Notable from the Salmond case has been the complete absence of anyone in Sturgeon's circle who was able or willing to have a quiet word in her ear about the potential shitstorm she might just be getting herself into - you could also extend this to the tactical blunder of letting Boris Johnson out of his box by voting for the election in 2019, or increasingly populist domestic policy such as folding like a deck chair to teachers and parents on exam results in 2020.

If the party is to survive the next few years then there are many beyond just those involved in the Salmond fiasco who need to be flushed down the pan.

 

[Detournement]

33 minutes ago, AMMjag said:

 

My impression is that Sturgeon is terrified of internal dissent and much of the internal structure of the SNP, from Cabinet to HQ to special advisors, reflects this.

 

 

You can see from the absolute no marks they have filled their benches with that the core group around Sturgeon don't want any outside rivals gaining influence within the party.

 

[SandyCromarty]

On 27/02/2021 at 11:03, Stormzy said:

Ahaha here we go, another one who believes what he wants. Do you monitor all my posts? I've been critical of the Tories on here before and in real life, I dont particularly like when people use "Tory" as an insult which happens regularly on here and I often call it out. Talking about red dots to someone that gets red dotted daily regardless of the content isn't a good idea..

It may interest you to know that the first tories emerged in england as Jacobites.

And again you are right the word tory is an insult, as follows;

As a political term, Tory was an insult (derived from the Middle Irish word tóraidhe, modern Irish tóraí, meaning "outlaw", "robber", from the Irish word tóir, meaning "pursuit" since outlaws were "pursued men")^[5][6] that entered English politics during the Exclusion Bill crisis of 1678–1681.

So to use the word tory as an insult is correct according to the word's origin.

The tory party in Scotland is disliked by the working classes which are in the majority, think of the Poll Tax and then the recent Bedroom Tax, both tory policies aimed at the poorer section of our society, did the bedroom tax apply to The Duke of Devonshire's Chatsworth House with it's 126 rooms?

The continuing and unnecessary cutting of benefits while looking after their rich donors is disgusting in this day and age, food banks and record homelessness as the likes of Rees Mogg talks of his nanny.

The tories bring nothing but misery and poverty as they have always done in Scotland.