Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Rugster]

Cherry is a fucking sinister character and the more power she attains the worse it is for the party. 

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

I don't understand

She wants the NHS and care worker bonus not to be subject to tax.

[Detournement]

23 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Joanna Cherry is to trans people as Tommy Robinson is to black people.

 

That is absolutely mental.

[Gordon EF]

As with all culture wars issues, it's the most important thing in the world for a handful of folk who lose their shit over it and dramatically over-estimate how much of a shit most folk give about it.

Without trying to sound like a horrible, centrist, West Wing watching c**t, surely there can be some kind of middle ground on the GRA issue rather than this fight to the death. Like it or not, progressive social changes always come gradually once a significant enough support builds up. It does seem to me like maybe we're not quite there yet with full GR. Take an ugly win and move on FFS.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

19 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Sure. But I am certain you that Cherry's version of Scottish nationalism is a lot less palatable to the electorate than Nicola Sturgeon's.

Well yes, everybody thinks their own version of things are the most palatable to the majority. That is a major part of a widespread problem in 2020.

[Gordon EF]

I've come up with a genius idea. If we can't all be paid in tax-free bonuses, instead of salaries, why can't companies just run monthly game shows where employees 'win' their salary. Winnings from game shows are tax-free.

Spoiler

 

[BucksburnDandy]

So it seems there's two strands:

1.  A bit of a shift towards those who want a tougher stance on powers for referendum / self-determination as opposed to the 'section 30 or nothing' crowd. Absolutely fine with that. I feel like there has to be that balance within the party.
2. A shift towards nutters like Joanna Cherry who've chosen the GRA hill to die on. That's certainly an absolute minter for the party.

This is essentially how I feel. There does need to be some kind of plan B for whe Boris does the inevitable rejection and some hardliners pushing for a plan B is no bad thing. Fresh eyes on strategy are often useful.

But the whole GRA thing is utterly fucking tedious. Maybe I'm just a happy clapper on this one but I literally couldn't care less what gender people choose to define themselves as. They're all human beings and every bit as important as every other human. I suspect I'm too Liberal for some here but live and let live, stop judging folk and start being nicer. Surely this year has taught us the value of human life and happiness so why make life more difficult for people? It's an odd hill for so many to die on and tearing that party apart over it is an utter minter.

[Caledonian1]

1 hour ago, Academically Deficient said:

I'm too old/stupid to understand to trans/ anti trans arguments fully - I start off kinda understanding but then my mind wanders off to what I'm having for my tea.

One comment above rings true though. I used to enjoy WoS, but this whole debate turned me right off. Haven't looked at it in months.

Why cant we all just get along and be pals? We can sort this out later...

Absolutely my feelings.  I used to think that Stuart Campbell was a tremendous asset for the Yes movement, now I just think he is an arse who is out to split the SNP with his own wee personal agenda.  I sometimes wonder if he is a plant.

Like you I dont even look at Wings it just depresses me.  You go look at his site expecting some incredibly well researched article which would expose the No side for what it is yet the past year or so he will ignore the independence debate and use his investigative skills on an issue that means very little to the vast majority of voters

[Glen Sannox]

SNP minters imploding, keep it coming. And all this, before “poor man’s Bond villain” Salmond, has wreaked his havoc!! 

Popcorn central, GIRFUY.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Mr Hahn said:

Isn't that kind of what the Yes movement should be though? 

Everyone wants independence for their own reasons, but more than one political viewpoint has come together to achieve that aim.

For me, one of the most exciting aspects of independence is the ability to discover more about my own politics, listen to arguments and come to a view. I'm a (relatively) young voter but have been a single issue voter at every single election because I don't believe we can realise our potential without independence.

If folk in the party are right leaning or left leaning, doesn't bother me one bit. Once we achieve it, we shake hands, go separate ways and start voting on shaping the country rather than getting a country to shape.

Fair enough, but with a pragmatic centrist liberal left stance doing very well in the polls it seems daft to complicate things. If you want people to see that Scotland is capable of running itself, it doesn't help to have division in the main party pushing for independence, especially from a minority whose views could alienate many current supporters. Switching to the right would be unlikely to shift any diehard Unionists, but could put off quite a few undecided voters. And it would be utterly insane to do what Bath boy seems to be after, replacing Sturgeon with Cherry. Not that it will happen, but you could write off independence for another generation if it did. Hopefully ordinary members focused on the main business will assert themselves from now on and stop this lemming cultish nonsense complicating the core message.

Edited December 1, 2020 by welshbairn

[Benjamin_Nevis]

10 minutes ago, Glen Sannox said:

SNP minters imploding, keep it coming. And all this, before “poor man’s Bond villain” Salmond, has wreaked his havoc!! 

Popcorn central, GIRFUY.

Obsessing over the SNP is literally all you have in life. 

What an absolute fucking minter of an existence 

[Glen Sannox]

3 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Obsessing over the SNP is literally all you have in life. 

What an absolute fucking minter of an existence 

That, and not having the misfortune of living in Forfar.

[Glen Sannox]

Once they lost talent like Margaret Ferrier, it was always going to go downhill. Tragic to see.

[Ludo*1]

There's some amount of shite in the SNP. Cherry is an attention seeking c**t, Blackford is an absolute fucking moron and Swinney is not much better, Chris Law for Dundee is an utter w****r (And I've suspicions that he'd be a Tory in an independent Scotland). I feel that the independence movement would be fucked by incompetence the moment Sturgeon steps down.

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, Mr Hahn said:

Once we achieve it, we shake hands, go separate ways and start voting on shaping the country rather than getting a country to shape.

Yeah this would all be grand if the right weren't already preparing the ground for the sort of country Scotland will be.

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

That is absolutely mental.

Correct. She's less uncouth and in your face. Maybe more of a Theresa May in the Home Office.

1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

As with all culture wars issues, it's the most important thing in the world for a handful of folk who lose their shit over it and dramatically over-estimate how much of a shit most folk give about it.

Without trying to sound like a horrible, centrist, West Wing watching c**t, surely there can be some kind of middle ground on the GRA issue rather than this fight to the death. Like it or not, progressive social changes always come gradually once a significant enough support builds up. It does seem to me like maybe we're not quite there yet with full GR. Take an ugly win and move on FFS.

The entire MO of the opponents to this, and many other social reforms, is to kick up a massive stink about it and create a vastly disproportionate response entirely hinged on bad faith and hysteria. If the SNP had any backbone they would have implemented the policy and let the vast majority of public get over it a day later like pretty much everywhere else that's instituted policies like this. 

[Gordon EF]

19 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

The entire MO of the opponents to this, and many other social reforms, is to kick up a massive stink about it and create a vastly disproportionate response entirely hinged on bad faith and hysteria. If the SNP had any backbone they would have implemented the policy and let the vast majority of public get over it a day later like pretty much everywhere else that's instituted policies like this. 

Yeah, that would've done it too.

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

48 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

The entire MO of the opponents to this, and many other social reforms, is to kick up a massive stink about it and create a vastly disproportionate response entirely hinged on bad faith and hysteria. If the SNP had any backbone they would have implemented the policy and let the vast majority of public get over it a day later like pretty much everywhere else that's instituted policies like this. 

You're missing the point. The SNP will have already done all the political calculations and came to the conclusion that regardless of which way they go on this, their support will ultimately drop below 50% regardless. Politically they are in a lose/lose situation.

[ArabianKnight]

2 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

There's some amount of shite in the SNP. Cherry is an attention seeking c**t, Blackford is an absolute fucking moron and Swinney is not much better, Chris Law for Dundee is an utter w****r (And I've suspicions that he'd be a Tory in an independent Scotland). I feel that the independence movement would be fucked by incompetence the moment Sturgeon steps down.

Ive known Chris for 20 odd years. Definitely not a tory but I wouldn't say he's left wing either. 

And he used to be a bit of a self centred arse but his heart is in the right place. 

[ArabianKnight]

Could someone give me a run down of why Cherry is such a demonised character? 

I tend to avoid the culture wars shite cause its a completely toxic argument mainly held on the cesspool of twitter. 

This may be a little bit of confirmation bias/limited sample size but the two trans lassys I know (who both don't even refer to themselves as "trans" cause they are post op) think a lot of the "woke brigade/young SNP" team are just social media justice warriors out for a whinge and a hill to die on as said above. 

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

15 minutes ago, ArabianKnight said:

Could someone give me a run down of why Cherry is such a demonised character? 

She isn't. She has people that support her and people that don't. The P&B political bubble isn't some reflection of the country on a whole.

Edited December 2, 2020 by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)