Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[doulikefish]

Best bit was Liz truss the tory asked if all the exam papers would be returned so they could be checked

[sparky88]

14 minutes ago, HTG said:

What does a middle option look like though? And how long would it take to articulate a middle option and then act on it? There's no easy way out of this. The moderation to deal with significant amounts of over-estimating by teachers has caused uproar. The removal of moderation creates a situation which is unrealistic. Moderating at individual level without the support of a structured examination process within the current delivery model is not feasible. 

The outcome is that the Scottish Govt has opted not to die on this particular hill. I doubt if the infrastructure to deal with 100k+ appeals exists - certainly not within the window available before university terms begin.

It'll be interesting to see whether there is time for the rest of the UK to change tack before their results come out. I suspect not so if they've used the same approach, they may choose to not issue the results at all. 

The predictions are way too optimistic. The moderation algorithm is too blunt an instrument. There is no middle approach to managing the volume without exams. Clusterfuck from all sides. 

Biggest mistake the Government could make now would be to consider the matter closed. How will the 2020 cohort of students' "exam" results be considered by employers and universities/ colleges going forward?

[btb]

6 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Best bit was Liz truss the tory asked if all the exam papers would be returned so they could be checked

Yeah she should stick to cheese related issues...

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, sparky88 said:

Biggest mistake the Government could make now would be to consider the matter closed. How will the 2020 cohort of students' "exam" results be considered by employers and universities/ colleges going forward?

Universities will cope no problem.  Employers don't care about highers. 

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, HTG said:

What does a middle option look like though? And how long would it take to articulate a middle option and then act on it? There's no easy way out of this. The moderation to deal with significant amounts of over-estimating by teachers has caused uproar. The removal of moderation creates a situation which is unrealistic. Moderating at individual level without the support of a structured examination process within the current delivery model is not feasible. 

The outcome is that the Scottish Govt has opted not to die on this particular hill. I doubt if the infrastructure to deal with 100k+ appeals exists - certainly not within the window available before university terms begin.

By opting not to die in this particular hill though they have left their supposedly independent exam authority up there to get absolutely slaughtered, with everyone now aware that the government can unilaterally overturn its decisions if weans and the tabloid press cry hard enough about the injustice of it all.

If they weren't happy with the adjustments then they should have dealt with it in house and announced a short delay in publishing the results: which the current restrictions on physically attending a college/university granted them a window for. If they wanted to support the SQA's judgment then they should have gone after the schools that had 50% of their fantasy island grades chucked out this time last week and made it quite clear that they were the problem. Instead they did neither, let the fury rise up, mewled apologies and then made a massive climbdown which makes you wonder who is actually meant to be holding the wheel in the political strategy role.

[Billy Jean King]

Biggest mistake the Government could make now would be to consider the matter closed. How will the 2020 cohort of students' "exam" results be considered by employers and universities/ colleges going forward?

It won't affect admissions one iota. You either had a conditional or unconditional offer which will be honoured assuming in the case of Conditional offers the conditions were met.

[Ludo*1]

So in essence, the cheating schools that have gamed the whole process in the first place have been rewarded and the SG have absolutely no backbone and are willing to relent completely rather than try to genuinely resolve the problem through the appeals process?

Disaster all round.

[The Master]

42 minutes ago, HTG said:

What does a middle option look like though? And how long would it take to articulate a middle option and then act on it? There's no easy way out of this. The moderation to deal with significant amounts of over-estimating by teachers has caused uproar. The removal of moderation creates a situation which is unrealistic. Moderating at individual level without the support of a structured examination process within the current delivery model is not feasible. 

The outcome is that the Scottish Govt has opted not to die on this particular hill. I doubt if the infrastructure to deal with 100k+ appeals exists - certainly not within the window available before university terms begin.

It'll be interesting to see whether there is time for the rest of the UK to change tack before their results come out. I suspect not so if they've used the same approach, they may choose to not issue the results at all. 

The predictions are way too optimistic. The moderation algorithm is too blunt an instrument. There is no middle approach to managing the volume without exams. Clusterfuck from all sides. 

I agree that there was no easy answer based on what had come before. I would imagine that there will be some sort of inquiry that will shed more light on whether or not an alternative course could have been followed (e.g. an earlier start to the process, releasing "provisional grades", then using appeals as part of the overall process rather than as a post-hoc resolution).

More broadly, I do think a review of the system is needed (and is coming, I believe). People would say that it's unrealistic for the SQA to have had in place a contingency for a global pandemic, but I don't think that's the issue here. It doesn't seem unreasonable for a qualifications body to have in place policies, procedures and assessment methods that allow any individual pupil/student to receive the grade they deserve regardless if they actually do an exam (e.g. if they're ill). Obviously, in normal times, that's handled by the appeals process, but maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe it should all be managed as part of the award process, reserving appeals exclusively for people who feel they have underperformed in exams.

With such policies and procedures in place, the SQA would more or less be ready for any eventuality - from the cancelling of all exams, through to an individual pupil being ill on the day of their exam, and everything in between. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by The Master

[John Lambies Doos]

Sturgeon might as well just give everyone their best predictive grades and coast off the poll boost next year from all the first time voters. Hopefully by the time the weans realise they’ve been had we will have independence and it’ll be someone else’s problem.

I like the way you're thinking.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

An absolutely fucking ridiculous 'buckle under pressure to keep the vote share up' volte-face, while trashes both the SQA and the credibility of the qualifications as collateral damage.
Not that they're actually going to restore much if any political capital from this move either. They cannot possibly pretend that at least the general outline of the grades wasn't on Swinney's desk before last week; if you want to throw out the grades and have a rethink then you do it before they are published in the public domain. A complete failure of political craft and a complete failure of actual governance.

We won't miss Private Fraser as long as you are around. Chill, by this time next week we'll all have moved onto new things.

[AUFC90]

Highers are only for getting into uni anyway. Most people will be getting into the uni course they thought they would by the end of this. Anyone worrying about how employers will view their highers are havering [emoji23]. Never had any employer check my school qualifications, they don't give a f**k.

[Marshmallo]

3 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

Highers are only for getting into uni anyway. Most people will be getting into the uni course they thought they would by the end of this. Anyone worrying about how employers will view their highers are havering . Never had any employer check my school qualifications, they don't give a f**k.

Your life experience is comprehensive of each and every potential career path, I'm sure.

[sparky88]

59 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, sparky88 said:

Biggest mistake the Government could make now would be to consider the matter closed. How will the 2020 cohort of students' "exam" results be considered by employers and universities/ colleges going forward?

It won't affect admissions one iota. You either had a conditional or unconditional offer which will be honoured assuming in the case of Conditional offers the conditions were met.

Logical conclusion of this is that exams were never needed in the first place. 

An imaginative Government might have used COViD to entirely reshape how exams sit within the educational system. Perhaps that might still happen since a precedent has been set. 

[mizfit]

This may explain why they’ve overturned the results.

[sophia]

1 hour ago, doulikefish said:

Best bit was Liz truss the tory asked if all the exam papers would be returned so they could be checked

She normally prefers to called Liz Smith and whilst she attempted to frame the question in general (quite remarkably the SQA are not required to show their workings), John Swinney used it to counter attack by pretending she was referring to this year in particular.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

By opting not to die in this particular hill though they have left their supposedly independent exam authority up there to get absolutely slaughtered, with everyone now aware that the government can unilaterally overturn its decisions if weans and the tabloid press cry hard enough about the injustice of it all. If they weren't happy with the adjustments then they should have dealt with it in house and announced a short delay in publishing the results: which the current restrictions on physically attending a college/university granted them a window for. If they wanted to support the SQA's judgment then they should have gone after the schools that had 50% of their fantasy island grades chucked out this time last week and made it quite clear that they were the problem. Instead they did neither, let the fury rise up, mewled apologies and then made a massive climbdown which makes you wonder who is actually meant to be holding the wheel in the political strategy role.

 

Those at SQA who withheld the information until 4 days before the exam results need to take some of the blame - they knew for almost 7 weeks yet didn't think it appropriate to flag to the Scottish Government. 

This should have been dealt with in June - LAs who were complicit in the production of inflated grades shouid have been told in no uncertain terms to go back and review their estimates.

 

Next year the results will be interesting - it will be clear which LAs gamed it this year and who played it by the book.

 

 

[HTG]

29 minutes ago, sparky88 said:

 

An imaginative Government might have used COViD to entirely reshape how exams sit within the educational system.

Really? Any sign of such imagination kicking in anywhere on the planet? Seems to me governments across the globe are quite busy without instigating root and branch reviews of their entire education systems and the impacts of doing so on wider society. 

[AUFC90]

Your life experience is comprehensive of each and every potential career path, I'm sure.

Comprehensive enough to conclude that the majority of employers don't check whether your highers are real or not. I've only had further education qualifications checked.

[strichener]

All teachers should now be forced to accept performance based pay.  Your pay will go up or down  asked on your pupils exam results next year versus this year.

The only party to come out of this with any credibility IMO is the SQA which had to account for teachers being at best highly optimistic and at worst downright dishonest.

Swinney's statement was the epitomy of populism and casts a shadow over the SNP.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Next year the results will be interesting

SNP FAIL OUR CHILDREN WITH THE BIGGEST DECLINE IN EXAM PERFORMANCE IN HISTORY!