Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[mizfit]

Going to be some laugh next week when Labour don’t bother holding Gavin Williamson to account for England doing the same, and outright defending the decision in Wales.

[Scary Bear]

I would have thought the people doing the teaching would have a better grasp of their students abilities than someone at the SQA. If this happens again in future, maybe the teachers should just give all students an A and let the SQA sort it out. It would be a lot easier for them.

The SNP are ultimately in charge so I suppose it’s only fair they have to deal with the grief caused by the SQA decisions to hunt about downgrading students to keep figures in line.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Labour trying to get a vote of no confidence in Swinney going, I wonder if the greens will go for it?

Why?

It's SQA's fault - they sat on the estimates for 2 months and did f**k all to get those who had submitted inflated estimates to review them.

They had the estimates from 28 May - all submitted electronically - still had plenty of time to send them back.

[Gordon EF]

54 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

 If this happens again in future, maybe the teachers should just give all students an A and let the SQA sort it out. It would be a lot easier for them.

Some teachers clearly thought that's what we were doing this year.

[KingRocketman II]

12 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

Boab, what do you think the Scottish Government should have done differently to what the UK Government is going to do in a couple of weeks time? 

I can understand why the SQA and SG would wish the exam results to be robust and credible and therefore basing results solely on a teacher's potentially inflated assessment would not have achieved this. However by broadly applying previous attainment patterns across the board knowing that this would disproportionately impact on pupils in socially deprived areas, they have opened themselves up to justified criticism. It is all very well saying that the exam results for 2021 show less of an attainment gap (and therefore the SQA have been more generous in their assessment) but as the scale has been broadly applied, their assessment approach has negatively impacted on pupils in socially deprived areas and has potentially resulted in some pupils in these areas getting lower results than what they would have got by sitting the exam themselves. That is inexcusable when one of your priorities is to close the attainment gap and provide more support to pupils in socially deprived areas. 

The scale should not have been applied. Each and every pupil should have been assessed in the same way that the appeals system will work - on individual overall assessment, previous exam results and the teacher's assessment. if that meant  higher pass rate, a significant but perhaps false closing of the attainment gap then so be it. That would be criticism a government with communities and supposedly social justice at the heart of their policies should be happy to absorb. 

[BawWatchin]

3 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

if that meant  higher pass rate, a significant but perhaps false closing of the attainment gap then so be it. That would be criticism a government with communities and supposedly social justice at the heart of their policies should be happy to absorb. 

Yeah, artificially enhanced grades does not equate to "social justice".

There's an appeals process for a reason. Students will get the grades they deserve. Not above or below. 

[KingRocketman II]

1 minute ago, BawWatchin said:

Yeah, artificially enhanced grades does not equate to "social justice".

There's an appeals process for a reason. Students will get the grades they deserve. Not above or below. 

thats the point. if the appeal system is so precise then that should have been used in the first instance!

[BawWatchin]

2 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

thats the point. if the appeal system is so precise then that should have been used in the first instance!

So you're suggesting that the appeals process should have been applied to every single individual student right across Scotland?

Do you have any idea the time and money that would have been involved for such a process? 

Makes far more sense to use an imperfect cheaper system, then use the appeals process for the minority that fall through the cracks. 

The Scottish Government know this, the UK Government know this (despite their petty attacks right now), the Welsh Government know this and the Northern Irish Government know this. Which is why they're all going to be following suit. 

[KingRocketman II]

9 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

So you're suggesting that the appeals process should have been applied to every single individual student right across Scotland?

Do you have any idea the time and money that would have been involved for such a process? 

Makes far more sense to use an imperfect cheaper system, then use the appeals process for the minority that fall through the cracks. 

The Scottish Government know this, the UK Government know this (despite their petty attacks right now), the Welsh Government know this and the Northern Irish Government know this. Which is why they're all going to be following suit. 

for this year, as a one-off, yes. there was plenty of time fo do it - the resources am sure are there or could easily have been found. 

[BawWatchin]

1 minute ago, KingRocketman II said:

for this year, as a one-off, yes. there was plenty of time fo do it - the resources am sure are there or could easily have been found. 

Easy just to say that when you've got zero insight into government finances. 

[KingRocketman II]

2 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Easy just to say that when you've got zero insight into government finances. 

as much insight as you do. 

It was asked what alternatives there ere to the SQA/SG approach. I offered one which you consider to be impractical. I disagree. However there has been significant fall-out from this, and not just from the usual opposition parties. I consider the criticism is way beyond that the SG expected and therefore it may have more of a lasting impact. Perhaps not, but we shall see..... 

[welshbairn]

32 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Yeah, artificially enhanced grades does not equate to "social justice".

There's an appeals process for a reason. Students will get the grades they deserve. Not above or below. 

I don't think you can say that, there's no way of telling. They signed up for system where last minute cramming and acing the exam could have salvaged a lazy year, I would have been totally fucked by this system, whether marked by teachers or on appeal. I've no idea what else the Scottish and other authorities UK wide  could have done to make it better, but there will be loads of students who have seriously lost out. Not sure if they could have caught up online after the lockdown though.

[BawWatchin]

6 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

as much insight as you do. 

It was asked what alternatives there ere to the SQA/SG approach. I offered one which you consider to be impractical. I disagree. However there has been significant fall-out from this, and not just from the usual opposition parties. I consider the criticism is way beyond that the SG expected and therefore it may have more of a lasting impact. Perhaps not, but we shall see..... 

I would argue that its impractical on the basis that they would have went down this route if it wasn't. 

But we'll be hearing the same thing all over again in a couple of weeks. 

[No_Problemo]

2 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

So you're suggesting that the appeals process should have been applied to every single individual student right across Scotland?

Do you have any idea the time and money that would have been involved for such a process? 

Makes far more sense to use an imperfect cheaper system, then use the appeals process for the minority that fall through the cracks. 

The Scottish Government know this, the UK Government know this (despite their petty attacks right now), the Welsh Government know this and the Northern Irish Government know this. Which is why they're all going to be following suit. 

Certainly doesn’t appear to be a minority. 

This isn’t a good look for Sturgeon whatsoever. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

19 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

Boab, what do you think the Scottish Government should have done differently to what the UK Government is going to do in a couple of weeks time? 

It's not my job to make the SNP political decisions. They have clever people employed to spin difficult decisions into political victories. 

In this case, it looks very much like they fucked up. The sight of schoolkids protesting in George Square is a powerful one that has significant political capital for the opposition, regardless of right or wrong. 

The SNP must have known for months the possible fall-out from this, yet they seem to have done little or nothing to mitigate it. 

[BawWatchin]

1 hour ago, No_Problemo said:

Certainly doesn’t appear to be a minority. 

This isn’t a good look for Sturgeon whatsoever. 

Well it is a minority. Despite the fake accounts on twitter making it seem like billions of people. 

[BawWatchin]

49 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

It's not my job to make the SNP political decisions. 

I thought as much. It seems its not the job of the opposition parties either to offer any better alternatives, considering their complete failure to do so. 

[The_Kincardine]

5 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

I thought as much. It seems its not the job of the opposition parties either to offer any better alternatives, considering their complete failure to do so. 

Eh?  It never has been.

The SNP and Nippy (since she IS the government in Scotland) made a baws of it and pointing this out, while unusual in Scotland, is just fine.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

It's not my job to make the SNP political decisions. They have clever people employed to spin difficult decisions into political victories. 

In this case, it looks very much like they fucked up. The sight of schoolkids protesting in George Square is a powerful one that has significant political capital for the opposition, regardless of right or wrong. 

The SNP must have known for months the possible fall-out from this, yet they seem to have done little or nothing to mitigate it. 

What could have mitigated it though? Is there a country that's worked out a better solution for this once in never situation? Just saying they should have done something differently doesn't cut it. Some things happen where there's no way out that keeps everyone happy.

Edited August 8, 2020 by welshbairn

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Eh?  It never has been.

The SNP and Nippy (since she IS the government in Scotland) made a baws of it and pointing this out, while unusual in Scotland, is just fine.

What should she have done?