Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Antlion]

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Brexit will change Scotland far less than independence would. 

Setting up an independent country is a huge task. Setting up an country which is capable of turning the tide of neoliberalism is a genuinely historic challenge. What we see day in day out from the SNP hierarchy proves they aren't up to the it. 

Neither are the Tories up to delivering a Brexit (or a wider future in Scotland) than won’t destroy people’s lives. But you welcome this, because you have zero interest in turning the tide of “neoliberalism”, as evidenced by your unfailing support for an increasingly far-right state created by an ultra-capitalist union.

Trying to undo three hundred years of the capitalist thrust of the UK would be an impossibly huge task, which not even Corbyn advocated. Turning a right wing union of nations left would be a genuinely historic challenge. What we see day in day out from the UK and its proponents proves that it isn’t going to reverse direction but rather go further to the right under the Tories, Brexit, and their enablers in the other BritNat parties.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Antlion

[Detournement]

7 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Hello it's me the "who gives a f**k what the SNP want to do after independence" gnome. I am summoned every time you imply post independence = eternal SNP government

And as I say everytime the most vital period will be creating institutions in the immediate aftermath of a Yes vote. 

It's surely worthwhile occasionally pointing out how shite this party who have been in power for 13 years are. She has zero interest in the impacts of inequalities on individual kids or the surely reasonable idea that inflated grades for a year (that will be eroded by existing and increasing economic inequalities anyway) is a lesser evil than screwing over a large number of poor children.

 

 

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

Neither are the Tories up to delivering a Brexit (or a wider future in Scotland) than won’t destroy people’s lives. But you welcome this, because you have zero interest in turning the tide of “neoliberalism”, as evidence by your unfailing support for an increasingly far-right state created by an ultra-capitalist union.

Trying to undo three hundred years of the capitalist thrust of the UK would be an impossibly huge task, which not even Corbyn advocated. Turning a right wing union of nations left would be a genuinely historic challenge. What we see day in day out from the UK and its proponents proves that it isn’t going to reverse direction but rather go further to the right under the Tories, Brexit, and their enablers in the other BritNat parties.

Not supporting the SNP plans for independence doesn't equate to supporting the Union or the Tory Party.

That's simplistic idiocy. 

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

And as I say everytime the most vital period will be creating institutions in the immediate aftermath of a Yes vote. 

It's surely worthwhile occasionally pointing out how shite this party who have been in power for 13 years are. She has zero interest in the impacts of inequalities on individual kids or the surely reasonable idea that inflated grades for a year (that will be eroded by existing and increasing economic inequalities anyway) is a lesser evil than screwing over a large number of poor children.

 

 

So what you’re saying is that Scotland shouldn’t be a nation state because you don’t like the SNP or trust it to do what you want immediately. But the UK should be a nation state because presumably you trust the Tories to make everything better, bless them. All those right wing, neoliberal institutions will, I’m sure, be turned safely and swiftly fairer any day now in the UK. 

[Detournement]

Just now, Antlion said:

So what you’re saying is that Scotland shouldn’t be a nation state because you don’t like the SNP or trust it to do what you want immediately. But the UK should be a nation state because presumably you trust the Tories to make everything better, bless them. All those right wing, neoliberal institutions will, I’m sure, be turned safely and swiftly fairer any day now in the UK. 

The UK is a state. That's just reality. 

The problem with people like you is that you can't actually conceive that an independent Scotland could easily be worse than the UK. 

[Antlion]

Just now, Detournement said:

Not supporting the SNP plans for independence doesn't equate to supporting the Union or the Tory Party.

That's simplistic idiocy. 

I didn’t say it did. But you, as a poster, have been a leading advocate of the blessed union and declared yourself “glad” to see this racist Tory Brexit being enacted.

Because even with a shiny new profile you don’t seem capable of maintaining the sudden pretence of socialism.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Brexit will change Scotland far less than independence would. 
Setting up an independent country is a huge task. Setting up an country which is capable of turning the tide of neoliberalism is a genuinely historic challenge. What we see day in day out from the SNP hierarchy proves they aren't up to the it. 

You should really look up the meaning of the world 'dilettante' as you fit it to an absolute tee.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Not supporting the SNP plans for independence doesn't equate to supporting the Union or the Tory Party.

What's the third option then ?

Unrelenting nihilism ?

[Antlion]

Just now, Detournement said:

The UK is a state. That's just reality. 

The problem with people like you is that you can't actually conceive that an independent Scotland could easily be worse than the UK. 

Of course it could, so the straw man doesn’t work. And if the people of Scotland don’t like the direction of an independent Scotland’s politics, we can vote in a party that does things differently. Only you seem to think that independence is the end of the road whilst the current UK is the beginning of something wildly different from what the state has been for hundreds of years.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

I didn’t say it did. But you, as a poster, have been a leading advocate of the blessed union and declared yourself “glad” to see this racist Tory Brexit being enacted.

Because even with a shiny new profile you don’t seem capable of maintaining the sudden pretence of socialism.

I'm glad to leave the EU. We were already a racist country in the EU (which is also racist).

[Antlion]

Just now, Detournement said:

I'm glad to leave the EU. We were already a racist country in the EU (which is also racist).

Of course you are. The only neoliberal, racist unions you approve of are those that are draped in Union Jacks. Besides, Brexit offers lots of opportunities for far right scum to make millions whilst simultaneously making the lives of the poor harder. What “socialist” (fnar fnar) wouldn’t want to raise a glass with Rees Mogg, Cummings, and dear old Bo Bo?

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

And if the people of Scotland don’t like the direction of an independent Scotland’s politics, we can vote in a party that does things differently. 

The fact that people actually believe this is the issue. 

Tell me some countries where things genuinely changed for the better because of voting recently. Institutions and structure is far more important. 

[Antlion]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The fact that people actually believe this is the issue. 

Tell me some countries where things genuinely changed for the better because of voting recently. Institutions and structure is far more important. 

I can’t offhand: so you’re saying the UK is  never going to change direction but instead to continue its eager gallop into right-wing, racist horror, empowered by the unchangeable nature of its inherently capitalist institutions and structures. And as a socialist, you’re “glad” of this?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

The UK: racist boomers lighting everything on fire and pulling up the ladder.

A Newly Independent Scotland: might not be initally as left wing as I would like it.

Sigh, I have no choice but to pick option no.1.

[Detournement]

7 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Things that definitely won't change in the UK in your lifetime.

I don't agree with that. A lot is going to happen in the next 50 years (that's me getting hit by a bus tomorrow now).

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Any day now lads.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

The UK: racist boomers lighting everything on fire and pulling up the ladder.

A Newly Independent Scotland: might not be initally as left wing as I would like it.

Sigh, I have no choice but to pick option no.1.

Why do you think it will be left wing at all?

Scotland votes centre and the factors that gave us a reputation of being left wing 30 years ago have disappeared. 

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I finally understand you at least. You're a glass half full kinda guy.

If the leaders of the independence movement were left wingers who displayed historical awareness and had appeared to have the backbone to fight to create a fairer state i'd be all for it. 

Clearly that's not the case though. 

[Sunrise]

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Why do you think it will be left wing at all?

Scotland votes centre and the factors that gave us a reputation of being left wing 30 years ago have disappeared. 

Would it not be more accurate to suggest sections of Scotland were "left-wing" 30 or so years ago?

You'd be hard-pressed to call Aberdeenshire, Eastwood, the Borders, even North East Fife and Stirling Labour strongholds.

Yes, the SQA are a shitshow today.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Sunrise

[Antlion]

7 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

The UK: racist boomers lighting everything on fire and pulling up the ladder.

A Newly Independent Scotland: might not be initally as left wing as I would like it.

Sigh, I have no choice but to pick option no.1.

What are you talking about? Why would you take a punt on the SNP (hiss) trying to create new institutions when these institutions are surely frangible and open to a socialist revolution any time now? Just look - clearly the Tories and Labour combined are champing at the bit to overturn all of this. All signs of UK history point to a socialist dismantling and rebuilding project, surely.