New clubs in the East of Scotland

[GordonS]

C'mon. A club like Armadale or Whitburn baulking at travel that's eagerly done by Tweedmouth, Eyemouth, Inverkeithing and Jeanfield, in favour of maybe a trivial amount less traveling over the course of a season wouldn't be to do with costs. It might be spite, or pride, or parochialism, but it wouldn't be costs.

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, GordonS said:

C'mon. A club like Armadale or Whitburn baulking at travel that's eagerly done by Tweedmouth, Eyemouth, Inverkeithing and Jeanfield, in favour of maybe a trivial amount less traveling over the course of a season wouldn't be to do with costs. It might be spite, or pride, or parochialism, but it wouldn't be costs.

The only thing that's really been said about travel comes from Harthill Royal as that's been the source of this. They're likely to end up in a division with Tweedmouth, Eyemouth, Hawick and maybe some other Borders sides. In which case I can see why they might prefer the West.

I don't think a motivation has been given for the others.

[GordonS]

17 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The only thing that's really been said about travel comes from Harthill Royal as that's been the source of this. They're likely to end up in a division with Tweedmouth, Eyemouth, Hawick and maybe some other Borders sides. In which case I can see why they might prefer the West.

I don't think a motivation has been given for the others.

4-5 journeys per season that are half an hour or so longer than the alternative, and a maximum journey of 90 minutes. Fine. 

Harthill straddles the border, so fair enough, but if others went I would doubt the motives.

[Dev]

35 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

The only thing that's really been said about travel comes from Harthill Royal as that's been the source of this. They're likely to end up in a division with Tweedmouth, Eyemouth, Hawick and maybe some other Borders sides. In which case I can see why they might prefer the West.

I don't think a motivation has been given for the others.

If Tweedmouth can go to Perthshire or Fife and Luncarty to Tweedmouth then the idea that Harthill would be better to go out of their area (they're in West Lothian) simply doesn't hold water. The shove is coming from elsewhere by clubs which want to have one or two localish games if they can get into the WoS on Harthill's coat-tails. Thinking that Five applicants are in a stronger position than just one or two not realising that the WoS doesn't need them as there already 67 clubs with at least one local addition (Kilbride Thistle) knocking on the door.

Was it wise of a WoS spokesman (Mr C Boyd of Kilwinning Rangers) to even mention potential new club numbers in a public media? The EoS haven't been doing this and that seems to give applicant clubs some sense that they are being dealt with professionally. 

Thinking that Mr Boyd of Kilwinning may be regretting making any comment about new clubs as there can be implications for potential clubs/knock-on effects. Was the WoS told that Harthill's ground isn't in Lanarkshire? Was he given the impression that as Harthill is in Lanarkshire then their ground must also be there? Who knows? Unless he was told or thought to ask this factor would never have surfaced.

Incidentally the KilwinningTV broadcasts are worth watching, although the next one has been put back and will be out in a fortnight or so.  

[LongTimeLurker]

10 hours ago, GordonS said:

C'mon. A club like Armadale or Whitburn baulking at travel that's eagerly done by Tweedmouth, Eyemouth, Inverkeithing and Jeanfield, in favour of maybe a trivial amount less traveling over the course of a season wouldn't be to do with costs. It might be spite, or pride, or parochialism, but it wouldn't be costs.

Think if you asked people at your club what they wanted to happen when the superleagues were brought in they'll tell you they wanted league games against Central League clubs like Pollok and Petershill rather than trips to Dundee, Carnoustie and Forfar. More recently it was the top east superleague clubs (including Kelty) that wanted the so called superduperleague that would have combined the east and west superleague for possible tier 5 pyramid entry. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Dev]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Think if you asked people at your club what they wanted to happen when the superleagues were brought in they'll tell you they wanted league games against Central League clubs like Pollok and Petershill rather than trips to Dundee, Carnoustie and Forfar. More recently it was the top east superleague clubs (including Kelty) that wanted the so called superduperleague that would have combined the east and west superleague for possible tier 5 pyramid entry. 

However, things have moved forward don't ya know!

There are Senior Pyramid leagues which almost all "professional" clubs belong to, including a WoS, EoS and a SoS. Just use the one which relates to the location of your ground.

Simples!

[Obviously, this applies to clubs considering entering the Senior Pyramid]

Edited February 3, 2021 by Dev
.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, Dev said:

There are Senior Pyramid leagues which almost all "professional" clubs belong to, including a WoS, EoS and a SoS. Just use the one which relates to the location of your ground.

In that spirit Yoker Athletic should really change their name and stop giving the false impression they're a Yoker club. Throw Clydebank somewhere in that name at the very least.

[LongTimeLurker]

28 minutes ago, Dev said:

However, things have moved forward don't ya know!

There are Senior Pyramid leagues which almost all "professional" clubs belong to, including a WoS, EoS and a SoS. Just use the one which relates to the location of your ground.

Simples!

[Obviously, this applies to clubs considering entering the Senior Pyramid]

Please try to consider the actual context before firing off these bizarre kneejerk replies. The point here is that West Lothian junior clubs wanting to be able to play league games against clubs from the west rather than travelling to somewhere like Tweedmouth or Forfar is not a new phenomenon, so what Whitburn and Armadale are trying to do is nothing hugely out of the ordinary. The WoS league still has the ability to tell them to take a hike, so it remains to be seen whether it actually happens.

The east superleague did not work as well as the west superleague did and West Lothian clubs were never that keen on it from the outset (Whitburn even refused to participate in it initially) as Tayside were originally supposed to get combined with the north region but managed to get themselves shoehorned into the east superleague as part of the compromises that cobbled together a majority for the superleague proposal. Part of what made the EoS attractive for some defecting clubs was the possibility of ditching most of the old Tayside region again to minimise travel.

Edited February 3, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Stag Nation]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

In that spirit Yoker Athletic should really change their name and stop giving the false impression they're a Yoker club. Throw Clydebank somewhere in that name at the very least.

Should Partick, Millwall and Grimsby change their names too?

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Should Partick, Millwall and Grimsby change their names too?

Absolutely

[patriot1]

Not this minimising travel pish again.

So it’s ok for Fife teams to travel to the borders but Lothian sides can’t be arsed going to Tayside.

[Stag Nation]

18 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Should Partick, Millwall and Grimsby change their names too?

Not to mention Heart of Midlothian.

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

Not this minimising travel pish again.

So it’s ok for Fife teams to travel to the borders but Lothian sides can’t be arsed going to Tayside.

I don't think that's the motiviation of clubs like Armadale, Fauldhouse and those still undecided Whitburn and Bathgate. Since those are clubs that were used to region wide travel in the East Region. That seems more bitterness and Junior ties motivating things.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

26 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Not to mention Heart of Midlothian.

Not sure on that one. Aren't they just named after something? Bit like how Third Lanark had nothing to do with Lanark.

Bring on the New Jersey Giants and New Jersey Jets though in the NFL, and New Jersey Red Bulls in the MLS 

[Stag Nation]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Not sure on that one. Aren't they just named after something? Bit like how Third Lanark had nothing to do with Lanark.

That was a bit tongue-in-cheek.

According to Wikipedia (so it must be true) the club we know as the Wet Farts were formed by members of a dance club, the Heart of Midlothian Quadrille Assembly Club.

[FairWeatherFan]

12 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

That was a bit tongue-in-cheek.

According to Wikipedia (so it must be true) the club we know as the Wet Farts were formed by members of a dance club, the Heart of Midlothian Quadrille Assembly Club.

The whole thing is being tongue-in-cheek in case anyone reading can't tell.

[Dev]

4 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

In that spirit Yoker Athletic should really change their name and stop giving the false impression they're a Yoker club. Throw Clydebank somewhere in that name at the very least.

Why? What has a club's name got to do with it?

If the ground at which club "X" intends to play on is not inside the area covered by League "A" what the f..k has it got to do with the name of the club? 

If club "X" applies to League "A" that's up to them and the league concerned at the end of the day.

 

The whole thing is being tongue-in-cheek in case anyone reading can't tell.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Dev
.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, patriot1 said:

Not this minimising travel pish again.

So it’s ok for Fife teams to travel to the borders but Lothian sides can’t be arsed going to Tayside.

That tends to be who objects any time the possibility of Dundee clubs entering the EoS gets raised on here and why. Will be interesting to see if there are any applications that put that scenario to the test this year.

[John S]

The home of Falkirk, The Falkirk Stadium is in Grangemouth

Not to mention Heart of Midlothian.

[Pyramidic]

25 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

That tends to be who objects any time the possibility of Dundee clubs entering the EoS gets raised on here and why. Will be interesting to see if there are any applications that put that scenario to the test this year.

There cannot be a better time for the Dundee clubs (perhaps as a group with a key representative acting on their behalf liaising with the LL, EOSFL and SFA) to make a case for their inclusion within the Senior Pyramid.

If unsuccessful then they need to quickly hammer out an arrangement with the HL and NRJFA.

League boundaries are not fixed in England and fluctuate quite a bit from season to season. In a proper pyramid (rather than the linear towers that are we are creating) there should be no problem in Harthill and Fauldhouse being in a Tier 8 division with say Shotts Bon Accord and Forth Wanderers one season and then say moved across to be with Dunipace and Rosyth the next. A proper pyramid should see fluid movement of clubs in each tier that allows natural groupings and minimises travel for the majority. Groupings will vary according to the constituent clubs in each tier in a particular season. This is a sensible and constructive way forward but would need the SFA to oversee the process. Therein lies the problem in my opinion.