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Moses McNeil

New clubs in the East of Scotland

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George Fraser said clearly on the LL Catchup podcast that they are looking for a ground at / closer to home. He said that even though it's difficult currently they're working on it. It's unfair to say that BSC aren't looking to get back to Glagow. If there are talks going on behind the scenes they're unlikely to shout that out loud until something is set in stone...

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27 minutes ago, cookieboy said:

Everyone that plays against them as they will be using money saved on players

But as I've pointed out, BSC won't be getting it for free. They'll be paying rent to Alloa.

I fail to see why clubs groundsharing is such a big deal, particularly in the era of artificial pitches. It makes complete sense for clubs to share facilities and hence costs. Gets more use out of the facilities too. Same as owning a ground, again so long as you have a secure tenancy, then what's the issue?

Yes, it does wrankle a bit that BSC play so far outwith their patch, but there wasn't really any other option and I'm sure they're looking at other venues closer to home.

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10 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

But as I've pointed out, BSC won't be getting it for free. They'll be paying rent to Alloa.

I fail to see why clubs groundsharing is such a big deal, particularly in the era of artificial pitches. It makes complete sense for clubs to share facilities and hence costs. Gets more use out of the facilities too. Same as owning a ground, again so long as you have a secure tenancy, then what's the issue?

Yes, it does wrankle a bit that BSC play so far outwith their patch, but there wasn't really any other option and I'm sure they're looking at other venues closer to home.

I totally agree they will be paying for the privilege of playing at Alloa but I’m pretty sure they won’t pay as much as for instance Bonnyrigg Rose had to pay to install floodlights and all the other requirements to gain their license which allowed them to be promoted to the Lowland League. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, cookieboy said:

I totally agree they will be paying for the privilege of playing at Alloa but I’m pretty sure they won’t pay as much as for instance Bonnyrigg Rose had to pay to install floodlights and all the other requirements to gain their license which allowed them to be promoted to the Lowland League. 

 

 

Would it be any different in paying rent to Alloa as paying rent to a Council for instance?

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7 minutes ago, cookieboy said:

I totally agree they will be paying for the privilege of playing at Alloa but I’m pretty sure they won’t pay as much as for instance Bonnyrigg Rose had to pay to install floodlights and all the other requirements to gain their license which allowed them to be promoted to the Lowland League. 

 

 

So what was stopping Bonnyrigg Rose from sorting a floodlit groundshare elsewhere? They could've done. Not that I'm suggesting they would, but the option is open to all clubs.

It's up to the individual clubs to weigh up the options. A leasing agreement isn't an easy option, you're either tied into it for the long term or you have to negotiate annual agreements where there's a risk you might be homeless at the end of the season. BSC will be putting money into Alloa, but that won't be money they can use as an investment in their own facilities when the time comes.

Floodlights might be a big capital expense, but they'll pay for themselves eventually in the ability to get games on. Remembering as well that many clubs don't own their own grounds but rent from the local council anyway.

Edited by Cyclizine

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34 minutes ago, cookieboy said:

I totally agree they will be paying for the privilege of playing at Alloa but I’m pretty sure they won’t pay as much as for instance Bonnyrigg Rose had to pay to install floodlights and all the other requirements to gain their license which allowed them to be promoted to the Lowland League. 

 

 

And once they pay for those floodlights they’ll be paying nothing for a long time towards them.

Meanwhile BSC are paying out on a constant basis. They also suffer as a result of not having priority of the pitch etc.

In the long term ground ownership is best, however it’s a very difficult goal, most clubs in Scotland haven’t got that and of your renting does it make much difference if it’s from council, business or another club?

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2 hours ago, gogsy said:

Was the SFA struggling for numbers in the Lowland league when Edusport entered the Lowland League?

First the bizarre post on the juniors forum that made it obvious you hadn't even bothered to read the Beith tweet I responded to and now this bizarre non-sequitur. The Lowland League was still struggling for numbers when Stewart Regan twisted the SoS League's arm to let Edusport into the pyramid. 

Edited by LongTimeLurker

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2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

First the bizarre post on the juniors forum that made it obvious you hadn't even bothered to read the Beith tweet I responded to and now this bizarre non-sequitur. The Lowland League was still struggling for numbers when Stewart Regan twisted the SoS League's arm to let Edusport in. 

Still no convinced how Edusport were allowed a total name change to Caley Braves and stay in the LL but that's another matter I suppose. 

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1 minute ago, newcastle broon said:

Still no convinced how Edusport were allowed a total name change to Caley Braves and stay in the LL but that's another matter I suppose. 

Clydebank could be bought by and change the name to Airdrie, Meadowbank Thistle moved to Livingston and renamed themselves, both stayed in the division they were in. If that's allowed, I don't see why this wouldn't be allowed. And as opposed to the former 2 cases, this wasn't exactly a move that upset a following.

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35 minutes ago, cookieboy said:

I totally agree they will be paying for the privilege of playing at Alloa but I’m pretty sure they won’t pay as much as for instance Bonnyrigg Rose had to pay to install floodlights and all the other requirements to gain their license which allowed them to be promoted to the Lowland League.

Strange you're picking on BSC when there's plenty of others who won't have paid as much as Bonnyrigg to get their licence. Bo'ness don't own their ground and I doubt they covered the full cost of upgrading their ground to a floodlit artificial pitch earlier this season (same with Dunipace).

What about Dalkeith, Easthouses, and Penicuik who had floodlights installed for them by the council back in 2013? Haddington, Musselburgh, and Tranent also got funding from East Lothian Council for their floodlights.

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27 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

First the bizarre post on the juniors forum that made it obvious you hadn't even bothered to read the Beith tweet I responded to and now this bizarre non-sequitur. The Lowland League was still struggling for numbers when Stewart Regan twisted the SoS League's arm to let Edusport into the pyramid. 

You mean the post where you claimed the current Beith juniors  were a team the had a pre 1938 history and had three seasons in the SPL  in the 1920's when the club was formed in 1938?:lol: 

"We have decided that we are BEITH JUNIOR. We always have been and always will be"

Edited by gogsy

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BSC and Edusport were allowed into senior football along with EKFC and Cumbernauld Colts because Stewart Regan's pyramid desperately needed clubs from the west to have any level of credibility as being something other than a rebranded EoS Premier.

You can argue that the end ultimately  justified the means, but circumstances have moved on now, so it's time to move on from some of the intelectual contortions some people did to justify that despite the bizarre optics that were involved.

It always should have been the likes of Pollok, Clydebank, Auchinleck Talbot and Irvine Meadow instead and it's unfortunate that it could easily still take another decade before the LL will be a realistic reflection of the strongest clubs available in its catchment.

Edited by LongTimeLurker

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3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

BSC and Edusport were allowed into senior football along with EKFC and Cumbernauld Colts because Stewart Regan's pyramid desperately needed clubs from the west to have any level of credibility as being something other than a rebeanded EoS Premier.

You can argue that the end ultimately  justified the means, but circumstances have moved on now, so it's time to move on from some of the intelectual contortions some people did to justify that despite the bizarre optics that were involved.

It always should have been the likes of Pollok, Clydebank, Auchinleck Talbot and Irvine Meadow instead and it's unfortunate that it could easily still take another decade before the LL will be a realistic reflection of the strongest clubs available in its catchment.

Good to see you've returned to your occasional raging mad mode again.

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12 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

BSC and Edusport were allowed into senior football along with EKFC and Cumbernauld Colts because Stewart Regan's pyramid desperately needed clubs from the west to have any level of credibility as being something other than a rebranded EoS Premier.

You can argue that the end ultimately  justified the means, but circumstances have moved on now, so it's time to move on from some of the intelectual contortions some people did to justify that despite the bizarre optics that were involved.

It always should have been the likes of Pollok, Clydebank, Auchinleck Talbot and Irvine Meadow instead and it's unfortunate that it could easily still take another decade before the LL will be a realistic reflection of the strongest clubs available in its catchment.

Strange skewering of history.

2013-14 East Kilbride got in because the whole reason the club was formed was with the intention of getting into the national leagues. By 2013 they'd had two seasons at amateur level and were going to be joining the SoSFL as they sought licencing and senior football. They got in because they applied and actually wanted to be in the Lowland League. In the end they were 1 of only 17 clubs that applied to the Lowland League. While the 5 rejected may have had more history, keep in mind only Edinburgh University got in to the Lowland League in 2014-15 with an established history. So chances are the 5 clubs were nowhere near licencing standards in 2013-14.

2014-15 BSC Glasgow get in because they had seen the Lowland League been formed and the juniors not interested. They saw an opportunity to create an adult side at a decent level of football. They originally got accepted in with a 3 year lease at Ashfield. That got blown up when looking at licencing, then the Maryhill agreement didn't work out.

2014-15 Edusport Academy: not sure if they had their amateur team running before this in a league, but the previous season they had been loaning some players to Selkirk and had been playing friendlies. They apply to get into the Lowland League, but get rejected as their ground in Hamilton was nowhere near the standard for licencing. End up applying to the South of Scotland to enter senior football where ground criteria is a lot lower. The South of Scotland having shrank to 11 clubs were probably happy for the numbers and it also meant they were at a round number of 14 for 2014-15.

2015-16 Cumbernauld Colts had been in the amateurs for years. At the time you had all the chat over Clyde leaving for wherever would be a better deal than Broadwood. The Colts saw an opportunity to step up from the amateurs with a viable entry point for senior non-league football and having gained the lease over Broadwood. With the long term tenancy of Broadwood they guaranteed to meet licencing standards and were accepted.

The one thing all 4 clubs have in common was that they saw the creation of the Lowland League as an opportunity to develop themselves and grow as clubs/organisations. As the West Region have found this year, if you actually engage with the pyramid you can end up a part of it.

 

 

 

Edited by FairWeatherFan

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For those that don't want to look into it. The Lowland League publicly confirmed there were 7 applicants for the 2014-15 season. These are the successful applicants, those rumoured at the time, and the eventual LL clubs that would join through application.

Join
BSC Glasgow
Edinburgh University

Rumoured
Burntisland Shipyard
Civil Service Strollers (join 2016-17)
Coldstream
Edusport Academy (join SoSFL 2014-15, 1st LL season 2017-18 through promotion)
Duns (fold summer 2016)
Glasgow University
Lothian Thistle HV (wouldn't become a SFA member until summer 2018)

Eventual successful LL applicants not named
Cumbernauld Colts 2015-16
Hawick Royal Albert 2016-17

Incredibly stiff competition.

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And what does all these teams joining the lowland league have to do with new teams in the eos???? 

Another thread taken over!!! 

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3 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Strange you're picking on BSC when there's plenty of others who won't have paid as much as Bonnyrigg to get their licence. Bo'ness don't own their ground and I doubt they covered the full cost of upgrading their ground to a floodlit artificial pitch earlier this season (same with Dunipace).

What about Dalkeith, Easthouses, and Penicuik who had floodlights installed for them by the council back in 2013? Haddington, Musselburgh, and Tranent also got funding from East Lothian Council for their floodlights.

And your point is ?????

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39 minutes ago, cookieboy said:

And your point is ?????

Because you're suggesting that BSC are gaining financially by avoiding having to pay for upgrading a ground by renting a ground that already meet the requirements; but ignoring that other clubs have upgraded their grounds via grants and council funding. It's swings and roundabouts.

Edited by Cyclizine

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4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

BSC and Edusport were allowed into senior football along with EKFC and Cumbernauld Colts because Stewart Regan's pyramid desperately needed clubs from the west to have any level of credibility as being something other than a rebranded EoS Premier.

You can argue that the end ultimately  justified the means, but circumstances have moved on now, so it's time to move on from some of the intelectual contortions some people did to justify that despite the bizarre optics that were involved.

It always should have been the likes of Pollok, Clydebank, Auchinleck Talbot and Irvine Meadow instead and it's unfortunate that it could easily still take another decade before the LL will be a realistic reflection of the strongest clubs available in its catchment.

Some big West Junior clubs were interested in the LL when it first started but got cold feet otherwise EK and BSC might not necessarily have got in ahead of them.

They remind me of when Whitburn declined to take part in the East Superleague and then had to play catch up 

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15 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Football without fans is nothing at a semi-professional level. There needs to be some sort of link to an identifiable community that is  expected to provide a regular support base. I suspect BSC and Edusport would have been viewed differently by the powers that be if the SFA hadn't been struggling for numbers where the LL was concerned.

Spot on. 

Let's face it they are an abomination of a adult men's football club. 

A club born out of some money from Mr Moyes and the boys club structure who produce pitiful banners with phrases like 'history is overrated '.

A club who 'fans' and committee all supported other full time clubs who felt like something different and jumped on a bangwagon. 

A chairman who nobody really knows and his stooge media championship manager nerd who seem to be the spokesmen for this lowland league and this new shambolic west of scotland league , really is that what non league football in this country has come to! 

An utter farce where we should have historic clubs with experienced proper officials who know the non league scene and it's history we are stuck with the bsc crew who have railroaded themselves into a position where they can feel important and relevant when that's the last thing they are. 

 

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