New clubs in the East of Scotland

[LongTimeLurker]

They are both quite isolated in terms of having a regular walk up crowd, but that's probably not a problem for a youth team type club nowadays. One that I think was recently mentioned on another thread is Leven Juniors old ground. Might take more work than those two though as would Halbeath, Tulliallan Thistle and Clackmannan as it's in an open public park/school playground format from what I remember.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Cameron Wilson said:

....They deserve a break....

Suggesting that there should be a time limit on how long they can be in Alloa inherently involves giving them a break, while not allowing them to rip the absolute pish out of the licensing system. Would have thought the 3G pitch at Scotstoun Leisure Centre should be the solution to do something close to Broomhill, in a similar sort of way to what the new Drumchapel WoS team are doing.

[The Mantis]

1 hour ago, Pyramidic said:

Is there any chance of the grounds of two defunct clubs being used for EOSFL football:

1. Steelend Victoria - Woodside Park, Steelend

2. Ballingry Rovers - Ore Park, Glencraig 

https://scottishfootballgroundswordpresscom.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/five-folded-but-not-forgotten-in-fife/
 

Would the two grounds be suitable for progressive clubs to develop? Youth oriented clubs?

Or has that opportunity long gone?

I take it the park in Steelend is still used by ammies? It was still in playable condition last time I looked, although Ore Park looked a bit overgrown.

[FairWeatherFan]

36 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Would have thought the 3G pitch at Scotstoun Leisure Centre should be the solution to do something close to Broomhill.

You've been around long enough that I can't tell if this is serious or you're trolling.

[parsforlife]

47 minutes ago, The Mantis said:

I take it the park in Steelend is still used by ammies? It was still in playable condition last time I looked, although Ore Park looked a bit overgrown.

I thought steelend folded as the farmer who owned the land wanted either someone paying a decent lease(they were paying something like £1 a year) or they would return it to farming,  not been past in a long time but I wouldn’t think it would have continued as a football pitch.

Ore park looks absolutely fine from the road. It’s not been left to completely rot and the grass is regularly cut, not sure who by or why tho. Pitch is nearly certainly in not good condition but i don’t think that would stop someone using it.  But when Lochore are only playing a few hundred yards up the road and aren’t well supported I doubt there’s exactly much room to expand.  That said with benarty once support 3 junior sides.

[Pyramidic]

14 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I thought steelend folded as the farmer who owned the land wanted either someone paying a decent lease(they were paying something like £1 a year) or they would return it to farming,  not been past in a long time but I wouldn’t think it would have continued as a football pitch.

Press reports at that time differ:

Quote

WEST FIFE junior outfit Steelend Victoria have folded after struggling with money problems.

The South Division club, whose final match was a 5-4 defeat against Whitburn on 21st September, closed its doors last Friday after club officials decided that it did not have enough cash to continue operating.

Disappointed players and officials said that the decision to cease playing had "come out of the blue" and expressed their sadness for the club.

Coach Alan Walker said, "It is very sad as it is a family club held by the McQuillans for a long time, but Kevin phoned to say that it didn't seem viable any longer." Vics were originally founded in 1946 and ran until 1963, before the team changed its name to Comrie Colliery after accepting assistance from the National Coal Board.

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/sport/13515404.junior-side-steelend-victoria-fold/
 

But the lease arrangements could of course have been the underlying reason.

[patriot1]

16 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

Press reports at that time differ:

https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/sport/13515404.junior-side-steelend-victoria-fold/
 

But the lease arrangements could of course have been the underlying reason.

Before the lockdown I passed through Steelend on a regular basis. I last looked in on the ground last year and it hadn't changed at all apart from the grass being longer. 

My understanding was that the farmer had greatly increased the rent(didn't think Steelend paid a pound) which along with the fact that the committee consisted of two brothers led to their downfall. 

A real shame as I used to love going to an evening kickoff at Woodside Park. Always seemed to have a special atmosphere in the air. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by patriot1

[GordonS]

20 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Would have thought the 3G pitch at Scotstoun Leisure Centre should be the solution to do something close to Broomhill...

You should contact them with that idea, I'm sure they can't have thought of it already.

[Pyramidic]

1 hour ago, patriot1 said:

Before the lockdown I passed through Steelend on a regular basis. I last looked in on the ground last year and it hadn't changed at all apart from the grass being longer. 

My understanding was that the farmer had greatly increased the rent(didn't think Steelend paid a pound) which along with the fact that the committee consisted of two brothers led to their downfall. 

A real shame as I used to love going to an evening kickoff at Woodside Park. Always seemed to have a special atmosphere in the air. 

Interesting feedback. I wonder what the value of the ground would now be? In planning terms it appears too far away from the settlement boundary to have much development potential. Has the clubhouse and associated infrastructure been vandalised?

[Jerry Macguire]

On 24/05/2020 at 19:11, tamthebam said:

I do remember BSC had planned to build a ground in one of the Glasgow Parks (Ruchill?) but maybe Glasgow Council didn't fancy the idea 

An Ed City committee member once suggested to a BSC committee member that they try and use Lesser Hampden (this was before the main QP team planned to move there) but this was looked down on as it was south of the Clyde. I suppose at least Alloa is North of the Clyde!

Lesser Hampden wouldn't comply with licence criteria at the time. Hence the reason QP won't re-locate until planned upgrades have been completed. 

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

You should contact them with that idea, I'm sure they can't have thought of it already.

It's usually sharing with the rugby team in the athletics stadium that gets mentioned on here rather than playing at the floodlit 3G pitch at the leisure centre that they are already using regularly for their amateur and youth teams. If EK, Bonnyton, Drumchapel United and Gartcairn are able to get something sorted as a home ground in their own area in that sort of manner then BSC can reasonably be expected to as well in a fixed timeframe.  BSC are instead exploiting a loophole in the SFA's licensing system and are currently aiming for SPFL entry with a stadium tenancy  40 miles from their homebase.

Edited May 26, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[FairWeatherFan]

20 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It's usually sharing with the rugby team in the athletics stadium that gets mentioned on here rather than using the floodlit 3G pitch at the leisure centre that they are already using regularly for their amateur and youth teams. If EK, Bonnyton, Drumchapel United and Gartcairn are able to get something sorted as a home ground in their own area in that sort of manner then BSC can reasonably be expected to as well in a reasonable timeframe.  BSC are instead exploiting a loophole in the SFA's licensing system and are currently aiming for SPFL entry with a stadium tenancy  40 miles from their homebase.

You're assuming that the Scotstoun Leisure Centre want one their pitches turned into a licenced football ground. Consider that they've got a facility that fits that purpose right there already.

Edited May 26, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[patriot1]

1 hour ago, Pyramidic said:

Interesting feedback. I wonder what the value of the ground would now be? In planning terms it appears too far away from the settlement boundary to have much development potential. Has the clubhouse and associated infrastructure been vandalised?

No damage that I could see although I only stopped for a few minutes. You would have thought if the landowner had any plans for the land he would have started by now. As I said earlier the lack of bodies on the committee may have had an impact. 

On another note I've always thought Leven was a prime candidate for a junior team. Cupar as well. Be good to see Leven United , Cupar Hearts or AM Soccer make the step up. 

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

No damage that I could see although I only stopped for a few minutes. You would have thought if the landowner had any plans for the land he would have started by now. As I said earlier the lack of bodies on the committee may have had an impact. 

On another note I've always thought Leven was a prime candidate for a junior team. Cupar as well. Be good to see Leven United , Cupar Hearts or AM Soccer make the step up. 

Hasn't there been some sort of link up between Cupar Hearts and AM Soccer? I remember something vaguely along those lines. My memory being that AM Soccer would be folding their amateur side and basically feeding Cupar Hearts instead of their own side.

[LongTimeLurker]

^^^As usual FairWeatherFan manages to completely misrepresent my argument and wastes my time by creating unnecessary potential confusion. So others don't get misled by this. My argument is that this is BSC's real home ground. It's OK to give them some leeway for a few years to get it up to entry level. If they are not able to get that sorted with Scotstoun Leisure Centre in a reasonable timeframe, then at that point they should lose their licence and step down to either WoS or amateur level depending on what is doable at this location. Having a suitable home ground in your own area should be an integral part of being a licensed club at the PGB level of the game where there is expected to be mass spectator interest.

Edited May 26, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

^^^As usual FairWeatherFan manages to completely misrepresent my argument and wastes my time by creating unnecessary potential confusion.

Helpfully you've spelled out your argument
 

 

13 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 My argument is that this is BSC's home ground. It's OK to give them some leeway for a few years to get it up to entry level. If they are not able to get that sorted with Scotstoun Leisure Centre, then at that point they should lose their licence and step down to either WoS or amateur level depending on what is doable at this location.

It's not their home ground. They do not own it. They do not have a rental agreement for it. They don't even use those pitches for their u20s. The u20s play at Springburn Park.

My point all along: They've tried to get access to Scotstoun for their first team, and they've been unable to reach an agreement.

 

 

[Dev]

30 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

No damage that I could see although I only stopped for a few minutes. You would have thought if the landowner had any plans for the land he would have started by now. As I said earlier the lack of bodies on the committee may have had an impact. 

On another note I've always thought Leven was a prime candidate for a junior team. Cupar as well. Be good to see Leven United , Cupar Hearts or AM Soccer make the step up. 

Cupar Hearts and A.M. Soccer are merging their 1st XI's for next season in the Kingdom of Fife Amateur League Premier Division so they look like a real viable possibility?

Leven United's ground looks as though it could be brought up to EoS standard but could Leven support them with East Fife in town too? It would be good to see them give it a go.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Dev
.

[Dev]

it's been suggested previously on P&B that if Tier 8 of the EoS in 2021/22 is regionalised then there's a better chance for Amateur and Youth clubs to aim for it from Perth/Stirling/Kinross/Fife and the Borders. Tier 8 could be  a more sustainable level for such clubs and it would help to make the EoS even more representative of the areas which it currently covers.

Maybe once Tier 8 is formed this will happen naturally anyway. No. I'm not going to have a go at the West Lothian Juniors for staying where they are. Clubs will move if they wish to.

[LongTimeLurker]

Methil and Leven have historically been viewed as separate towns and Kirkcaldy YM have managed to putter along in Raith Rovers shadow over the years. Think that is the most likely former junior location to be viable at EoS level. 

[Ginaro]

13 minutes ago, Dev said:

Cupar Hearts and A.M. Soccer are merging their 1st XI's for next season in the Kingdom of Fife Amateur League Premier Division so they look like a real viable possibility?

Leven United's ground looks as though it could be brought up to EoS standard but could Leven support them with East Fife in town too? It would be good to see them give it a go.

Problem for Cupar Hearts is getting a boundary fence around their pitch at Duffus Park, as it's got two rugby pitches and a car park right next to it.