New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Hampden Diehard]

5 hours ago, Casey Jones said:

I know it is just a name, but ‘Super’ is stretching the imagination somewhat.

When you have second tier leagues being the "championship" and the third tier being the First Division, calling absolutely anything "Super" seems quite acceptable. Fan Dabby Dozy might be more appropriate though.

[Casey Jones]

55 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

When you have second tier leagues being the "championship" and the third tier being the First Division, calling absolutely anything "Super" seems quite acceptable. Fan Dabby Dozy might be more appropriate though.

That’s the one!!  

[Jambo'ness]

17 hours ago, Casey Jones said:

I know it is just a name, but ‘Super’ is stretching the imagination somewhat.

'Junior' is just a name too but its what these backward-looking clubs cling to

The misnomer of 'junior football' ended many years ago.  Once players skipped going from juvenile to junior, then to senior and instead made the direct leap, the name became redundant and held dear only to those who fear the future.

[Whitburn Vale]

14 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Assuming Livingston United get shoehorned in at the AGM Kinnoull style and I doubt they would be going public if that wasn't a strong possibility, for the big four in the south "super" there are the three tribute acts, Syngenta, Harthill, Stoneyburn, West Calder and Pumpherston as the supporting cast. Hard to believe that can stagger on for more than another season now once the reality of what that looks like hits home. They needed Thornton and Kennoway to still have something reasonably credible.

Agree with most of your post LTL...

One point I didn't make clear yesterday,is i know some of the Whitburn and Harthill committee and someone on the Fauldhouse  committee and they actually love the fact there is next to no Tayside travelling now in their season.

You start adding Tayside clubs to the EoS and these same guys are gonna have even more fuel to add to their fire,which for me is a crying shame considering the potential and facilities they would bring to the EoS.

They may all move in 21/22 in at tier 8 and be reasonably content with it but cant see it happening if Tayside sides get added to the EoS,I work with 2 of the Harthill guys and travel is a massive issue to them.

Hopefully Livi United can squeeze in next season,it would be a great boost to have another West Lothian side in the EoS but if not then they're certainly saying it will be defo next again season.

[Jambo'ness]

5 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Agree with most of your post LTL...

One point I didn't make clear yesterday,is i know some of the Whitburn and Harthill committee and someone on the Fauldhouse  committee and they actually love the fact there is next to no Tayside travelling now in their season.

You start adding Tayside clubs to the EoS and these same guys are gonna have even more fuel to add to their fire,which for me is a crying shame considering the potential and facilities they would bring to the EoS.

They may all move in 21/22 in at tier 8 and be reasonably content with it but cant see it happening if Tayside sides get added to the EoS,I work with 2 of the Harthill guys and travel is a massive issue to them.

Hopefully Livi United can squeeze in next season,it would be a great boost to have another West Lothian side in the EoS but if not then they're certainly saying it will be defo next again season.

I can understand if clubs dislike the travelling to Tayside.  In our last junior season, we had no fewer than seven trips over the Tay.  Lochee, Broughty, Carnoustie & Forfar in the league and Brechin, Dundee Violet & Lochee Harp in cups.  Was certainly a bit wearing.  All I ever hear is about the boundaries that are set.  Why can these not be revised?  Again, times move on and in an ideal scenario, the Tayside clubs should be linked to a Highland League pyramid, instead of one that could enter Lowland League.  I know that gets off the track a bit but perhaps the West Lothian clubs would be more agreeable if the Tayside pathway was formulated.

[LongTimeLurker]

29 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Agree with most of your post LTL...

One point I didn't make clear yesterday,is i know some of the Whitburn and Harthill committee and someone on the Fauldhouse  committee and they actually love the fact there is next to no Tayside travelling now in their season...

Never said or implied anything about playing against Tayside teams in my post. My point was that this season with some Fife teams like Thornton and Kennoway still involved they still had the team numbers needed to have something you could label as a south super league with a relatively straight face.

Next season they will be moving into glorified amateur league territory with the tribute acts and Syngenta as part of the equation and Harthill, Stoneyburn and West Calder have usually been very much district league outfits over the years rather than super league material. This won't be sustainable for long. Their final destination is clearly the EoS and the Armadale secretary even seemed to realise that in the interview that got posted yesterday.

Edited May 4, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[Whitburn Vale]

46 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Never said or implied anything about playing against Tayside teams in my post. My point was that this season with some Fife teams like Thornton and Kennoway still involved they still had the team numbers needed to have something you could label as a south super league with a relatively straight face.

Next season they will be moving into glorified amateur league territory with the tribute acts and Syngenta as part of the equation and Harthill, Stoneyburn and West Calder have usually been very much district league outfits over the years rather than super league material. This won't be sustainable for long. Their final destination is clearly the EoS and the Armadale secretary even seemed to realise that in the interview that got posted yesterday.

Never said you did,that's why I said I agreed to "most" of your post.

I added the "Tayside" chat to add what I had posted yesterday.

Yeah they will be playing in a glorified amateur league next season which is a crying shame considering the potential and facilities which Whitburn Armadale,Bathgate and Fauldhouse have.

3 of the above have won the junior cup and between them played in 7 junior cup finals.

As I said, I know committee men of 3 of the above clubs and they are very much "junior" men but agree the penny will have to drop at sometime......

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Jambo'ness said:

I can understand if clubs dislike the travelling to Tayside.  In our last junior season, we had no fewer than seven trips over the Tay.  Lochee, Broughty, Carnoustie & Forfar in the league and Brechin, Dundee Violet & Lochee Harp in cups.  Was certainly a bit wearing.  All I ever hear is about the boundaries that are set.  Why can these not be revised?  Again, times move on and in an ideal scenario, the Tayside clubs should be linked to a Highland League pyramid, instead of one that could enter Lowland League.  I know that gets off the track a bit but perhaps the West Lothian clubs would be more agreeable if the Tayside pathway was formulated.

I honestly don't understand how a journey of 1 hour 15 minutes by car, or less than two hours by train, every six weeks during the season can be described as wearing. I was traveling that far to away games when I player under 16s rugby, so it shouldn't be much to ask for adult. Each to their own I suppose but for an away game is it really that much? 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Whitburn Vale said:

One point I didn't make clear yesterday,is i know some of the Whitburn and Harthill committee and someone on the Fauldhouse  committee and they actually love the fact there is next to no Tayside travelling now in their season.

 

I said before that I think these clubs have finally got the league they always wanted. Their dream scenario would be a West Lothian League with Bo'ness and perchance Camelon as invited outsiders.

[Jambo'ness]

3 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I honestly don't understand how a journey of 1 hour 15 minutes by car, or less than two hours by train, every six weeks during the season can be described as wearing. I was traveling that far to away games when I player under 16s rugby, so it shouldn't be much to ask for adult. Each to their own I suppose but for an away game is it really that much? 

You've taken my post completely out of context.  In the season I referred to, we had crossed the Tay on 4 occasions by the end of October and the Forth made it 7.  It is wearing travelling the same roads week after week, which is one of the reasons I got pissed off with the Premier League and the constant M8 excursions.  Now that's just me as a fan.  Try to consider how some players may feel about it.

[Jambo'ness]

10 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I said before that I think these clubs have finally got the league they always wanted. Their dream scenario would be a West Lothian League with Bo'ness and perchance Camelon as invited outsiders.

No Linlithgow?  Or do you consider yourselves above them?

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I honestly don't understand how a journey of 1 hour 15 minutes by car, or less than two hours by train, every six weeks during the season can be described as wearing. I was traveling that far to away games when I player under 16s rugby, so it shouldn't be much to ask for adult. Each to their own I suppose but for an away game is it really that much? 

There were a few posters on here quite happy to see the end to trips to Tayside, and then the remnants of the East Region decided to give up on those same trips themselves.

[LongTimeLurker]

10 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I said before that I think these clubs have finally got the league they always wanted. Their dream scenario would be a West Lothian League with Bo'ness and perchance Camelon as invited outsiders.

Can Bo'ness ever really be an outsider in West Lothian? Thing is the first time they show up at a 3G cage rather than Prestonfield they are going to realise they don't have the real Linlithgow Rose but an amateur club pretending to be them. 

If they had the real Bo'ness, Lithgae and Sauchie plus Camelon rather than Syngenta they could have a really good league that you could easily compare to the EoS premier in quality. The problem is they don't and once there's no comparison to be made in that regard it's game over, because Livingston United won't be the last defection.

[patriot1]

2 hours ago, Jambo'ness said:

I can understand if clubs dislike the travelling to Tayside.  In our last junior season, we had no fewer than seven trips over the Tay.  Lochee, Broughty, Carnoustie & Forfar in the league and Brechin, Dundee Violet & Lochee Harp in cups.  Was certainly a bit wearing.  All I ever hear is about the boundaries that are set.  Why can these not be revised?  Again, times move on and in an ideal scenario, the Tayside clubs should be linked to a Highland League pyramid, instead of one that could enter Lowland League.  I know that gets off the track a bit but perhaps the West Lothian clubs would be more agreeable if the Tayside pathway was formulated.

For the last two years we were all under the misapprehension that the the Tayside clubs couldn't join the EOS and there was still no movement from the West Lothian clubs so I doubt that a Tayside pathway would make a difference. 

We saw from yesterday's interview with Armadale's secretary what's really stopping the likes of Armadale and Fauldhouse from making the move. 

Ps, how can we have a national pyramid system with possible promotion to the SPFL with clubs who don't want to travel an hour to play a game?

[Dev]

Sometimes people running clubs (not just sports clubs) are the only ones prepared to take on that role so they just carry on doing what they're used to doing and what they're comfortable with. They don't have to listen to anyone or anything that doesn't fit in with that. It's a kind of inertia.

Are there even people out there who are supporters (armchair or attending games) who are capable of tackling the jobs involved with running clubs such as these?

You cannot have new ideas let alone change if there aren't people out there pushing for change and who are prepared to take on the leadership roles.

Without new blood and or new ideas these clubs will wither away. That would be very sad and such a waste.

 

[Dev]

8 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

For the last two years we were all under the misapprehension that the the Tayside clubs couldn't join the EOS and there was still no movement from the West Lothian clubs so I doubt that a Tayside pathway would make a difference. 

We saw from yesterday's interview with Armadale's secretary what's really stopping the likes of Armadale and Fauldhouse from making the move. 

Ps, how can we have a national pyramid system with possible promotion to the SPFL with clubs who don't want to travel an hour to play a game?

It's the people who currently control such clubs who are in their own little comfort zone and don't want to travel. They may have their own private/personal reasons for that e.g. they no longer enjoy travel/they've been there and done it etc. They don't have to think about others and that will continue unless alternative people come forward who are capable of running these clubs and have a notion that the world has moved on - for the better. 

[GordonS]

 

2 hours ago, Jambo'ness said:

You've taken my post completely out of context.  In the season I referred to, we had crossed the Tay on 4 occasions by the end of October and the Forth made it 7.  It is wearing travelling the same roads week after week, which is one of the reasons I got pissed off with the Premier League and the constant M8 excursions.  Now that's just me as a fan.  Try to consider how some players may feel about it.

From what I've seen players are generally happy to travel pretty long distances to play at the highest level they can. There are notable exceptions to that but they are exceptions, not the rule.

I don't think you said that you'd been 4 times in a short period so I obviously couldn't have known that. It's repetitive but the flip side is you didn't have to go back for the rest of the season. It's just the luck of the fixture list.

2 hours ago, Jambo'ness said:

No Linlithgow?  Or do you consider yourselves above them?

Surely you know that Linlithgow is in West Lothian???

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Can Bo'ness ever really be an outsider in West Lothian?

They're in Falkirk, so yes.

[Hip Priest]

With apologies for the digression, although Bo'ness hasn't been in West Lothian in administrative terms at any point in my lifetime, I nevertheless always think of it as being in West Lothian.    So it always feels weird when people talk about West Lothian football and aren't including the BU in that discussion - indeed my starting assumption is always that they are included until someone says something that suggests otherwise.  I seem to remember there being some sort of one-off cup round about the millennium - possibly called the Millennium Cup... - for West Lothian clubs and Bo'ness not being invited. The rationale was that Bo'ness was "in Falkirk District" or that they already had eight teams for the competition, or something.  But we all know they were just sh*ting it cos we were going to win.

Anyway, Scottish football has enough identity politics issues without us getting into bitter conflicts over who the real ethnic West Lothianers are, so please feel free to get back on topic.

[Jambo'ness]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

 

From what I've seen players are generally happy to travel pretty long distances to play at the highest level they can. There are notable exceptions to that but they are exceptions, not the rule.

A lot of players at our level have a family life to consider too.  On top of their full-time job, many wives don't want to see their husbands disappearing all day to the exclusion of their children, as an example.  

I don't think you said that you'd been 4 times in a short period so I obviously couldn't have known that. It's repetitive but the flip side is you didn't have to go back for the rest of the season. It's just the luck of the fixture list.

Sorry for not explaining that when first posting.  I should have thought of you first.  There was no flip side, as we had another three trips later in the season.  That is how I arrived at my total of seven.

Surely you know that Linlithgow is in West Lothian???

Yes, thankfully.

They're in Falkirk, so yes.

 

[teamfinderscot]

I see sosfl has been voided, I wouldn’t write the teams off at that league by any means but would fancy a strong boness against them. This means if boness are promoted there is that imbalance which could see Livi ‘shoehorned’ in, I’m not sure it would happen but remains a possibility, also the ERSJFA may not be too keen readmitting a club who doesn’t want to be there.