Jump to content
Moses McNeil

New clubs in the East of Scotland

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

The likes of myself, impressive. emoji1787.png

I wouldn't suggest a LL East and West over time is necessarily an idea I'd say no to, but it's a the longer term idea. I'd rather see that when clubs reach the licensing standards (for example when the west are in the pyramid and clubs have had a couple of years to get through the licensing process so you have enough teams to start the LL West up).

In conjunction with this, the spfl would have to consider opening up more promotion and relegation spots. One spot for then a HL, LL West and LL East simply creates more of a bottleneck than there is already. This is why I'd say a LL East and LL West over time. It allows for more licensed teams both East and West to account for increases and decreases in numbers in each league to account for increased promotion to the spfl.

I'd say right now the most straight forward and sensible plan is to have the West in as is, East either joins the eos at its lowest tier or stays outwith the pyramid until they wish to join the eos. This allows the west to progress and east clubs to decide for themselves if they wish to join the pyramid or not. The fact that the sjfa have been happy to forget the North means they have pretty much set the precedent for forgetting the 'all in together' approach.

This means nothing fundamentally changes other than promotion to the LL, which again means increases in relegation and promotion so there isn't the same bottleneck we are trying to avoid into the spfl. If the LL deny this then it would be hard for them to argue having an increase into the spfl as they would be accused of denying the very thing they are seeking for themselves.

It's all very interesting stuff yet to be negotiated and discussed (crazy that we are almost 2 years further down the line) but the LL guys are pretty rational and I think they would be happy to increase their spots, but only if the wrsjfa come in and the ersjfa join the eos. Having the ersjfa as a standalone creates a 4th top league at tier 6, making an even greater bottleneck yet again.

 

I'm not thinking about most sensible or long term.

I'm thinking what the West Region are actually going to come out with on Thursday. It seems to me there are enough people that fear losing cups, losing money, ticket prices increased and promotion to what they see as an inferior league.

All because they're uninformed years into this and there might not be anyone there that speaks up for joining at tier 6.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the questionnaire from a couple of years ago it asked whether clubs would prefer Tier 5 or Tier 6 entry into the pyramid. These were the responses from the 63 clubs that are in the West Region.

Option A (Tier 6 entry)

  1. Arthurlie
  2. Cambuslang Rangers
  3. Forth Wanderers
  4. Gartcairn Juniors
  5. Glenafton Athletic
  6. Hurlford United
  7. Johnstone Burgh
  8. Kilbirnie Ladeside
  9. Kilwinning Rangers
  10. Largs Thistle
  11. Maryhill
  12. Neilston Juniors
  13. Rossvale
  14. Rutherglen Glencairn
  15. Shettleston
  16. Shotts Bon Accord
  17. Vale of Clyde
  18. Yoker Athletic 

Option B (Tier 5 entry)

  1. Annbank United
  2. Ardeer Thistle
  3. Ashfield
  4. Auchinleck Talbot
  5. Beith Juniors
  6. Bellshill Athletic
  7. Blantyre Victoria
  8. Carluke Rovers
  9. Clydebank
  10. Craigmark Burntonians
  11. Cumbernauld United
  12. Cumnock Juniors
  13. Dalry Thistle
  14. Darvel
  15. East Kilbride Thistle
  16. Greenock Juniors
  17. Irvine Victoria
  18. Kello Rovers
  19. Kilsyth Rangers
  20. Larkhall Thistle
  21. Lesmahagow
  22. Lugar Boswell Thistle
  23. Maybole
  24. Newmains United
  25. Petershill
  26. Pollok
  27. Port Glasgow
  28. St Anthony's
  29. St Roch's
  30. Troon
  31. Whitletts Victoria
  32. Wishaw

N/A

  1. Irvine Meadow XI
  2. Kirkintilloch Rob Roy
  3. Lanark United
  4. Thorniewood United
  5. Vale of Leven

Blank

  1. Ardrossan Winton Rovers
  2. Benburb
  3. Glasgow Perthshire
  4. Muirkirk
  5. Renfrew
  6. Royal Albert
  7. Saltcoats Victoria

Unviewable on the Screenshots

  1. Girvan
Edited by FairWeatherFan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are the SJFA likely to be keen on the LL west and LL east concept when that means they would quickly lose most of the clubs that can usually be expected to be appearing in the junior cup quarter finals? What the SJFA probably would have wanted was having their own superduperleague in at tier 5, but the horse has long since bolted on that scenario. Suspect it's the LL that are pushing that option and it's part of the LL2 idea that sometimes gets mentioned. The reason they would be keen on this is that it provides more of the existing LL clubs (Spartans would be a prime example) with a much better shot at playing in tier 5 over the long term.

Edited by LongTimeLurker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Are the SJFA likely to be keen on the LL west and LL east concept when that means they would quickly lose most of the clubs that can usually be expected to be appearing in the junior cup quarter finals? What the SJFA probably would have wanted was having their own superduperleague in at tier 5, but the horse has long since bolted on that scenario. Suspect it's the LL that are pushing that option and it's part of the LL2 idea that sometimes gets mentioned. The reason they would be keen on this is that it provides more of the existing LL clubs (Spartans would be a prime example) with a much better shot at playing in tier 5 over the long term.

  • Who's going to be there to tell them its the Lowland League running it?
  • Who's there to tell them it would be by application with priority given to those with licencing and not just the West Premiership getting slotted in?
  • Who's going to be there to say that it would mean losing the Junior Cup?
  • Who's going to be there to explain all the problems of the East and that the West going in on its own at Tier 6 has the best chance of passing the PWG?
  • Anyone likely to mention that the West and East in at Tier 6 has already been voted down?

Nobody. Certainly no representatives from the LL, EoS or SFA as far as i'm aware. Not that the SFA would matter much considering how they've handled things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think it's what the ERSJFA decide at a meeting on these options that matters more. If they decide they only want in at tier 6 as a feeder to the LL including clubs north of the Tay boundary and the SJFA is doing the negotiating rather than the regions what happens next? The initials of the national association provide a hint. There's a reason why the SJFA would have still wanted the east and west in at tier 6 as one of the options for discussion.

It's unfortunate the issue of whether the Tayside boundary actually matters is superimposed on top of all of this as it means a straight absorption of junior clubs in the east by the EoS doesn't make the issue of what to do with what would be left of the ERSJFA north of the Tay go away. Under those conditions the ERSJFA is likely to also linger on south of the Tay as well and that spells ongoing trouble for coming up with any solution when the SJFA is doing the negotiating as a national association.

I doubt anything is going to be resolved on this in time for next season unless the SFA have mysterious yet to be revealed powers to impose a solution, which seems unlikely. Best thing to speed things along would probably be a further mass defection from the ERSJFA to the EoS but all the recent posts from the new teams in at tier 8 brigade on here shows that there are people around in EoS circles who are likely to wind up actively undermining that possibility by their words and actions. 

Edited by LongTimeLurker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Think it's what the ERSJFA decide at a meeting on these options that matters more. If they decide they only want in at tier 6 as a feeder to the LL including clubs north of the Tay boundary and the SJFA is doing the negotiating rather than the regions what happens next? The initials of the national association provide a hint. There's a reason why the SJFA would have still wanted the east and west in at tier 6 as one of the options for discussion.

It's unfortunate the issue of whether the Tayside boundary actually matters is superimposed on top of all of this as it means a straight absorption of junior clubs in the east by the EoS doesn't make the issue of what to do with what would be left of the ERSJFA north of the Tay go away. Under those conditions the ERSJFA is likely to also linger on south of the Tay as well and that spells ongoing trouble for coming up with any solution when the SJFA is doing the negotiating as a national association.

I doubt anything is going to be resolved on this in time for next season unless the SFA have mysterious yet to be revealed powers to impose a solution, which seems unlikely. Best thing to speed things along would probably be a further mass defection from the ERSJFA to the EoS but all the recent posts from the new teams in at tier 8 brigade on here shows that there are people around in EoS circles who are likely to wind up actively undermining that possibility by their words and actions. 

I think theyd accept conferences again if it came to it. Their preference is for a divisional structure for their own clubs benefit to which I agree with to a point. But I'm sure theyd accept it conferences at tier 7 if all ersjfa clubs that CANcome come over do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This should be in the “starting from scratch” thread but at least it’ll get seen here...

Copy-of-Pyramid.pdf


TIER 1 - same as now. 12 teams, split after 33 games, 38 games in total. 12th automatically relegated, 11th into playoff.

TIER 2 - as tier 1 with 1st automatically promoted and 2nd, 3rd and 4th into playoff. 12th automatically relegated with 11th into playoff.

TIER 3 - 18 teams, 34 games. 1st automatically promoted, 2nd, 3rd and 4th into playoff. Bottom 3 automatically relegated with 15th going into playoff.

TIER 4 - 16 teams, 30 games. 3 league winners automatically promoted with the 3 2nd placed teams going into playoff with 15th in T3. 15th and 16th automatically relegated (if top tier 5 teams are or are close to being licensed) with 14th into playoff if needed

TIER 5 - 14 teams, 26 games. HL2, EoS Prem and WoS Prem licensed winners automatically promoted. If top 2 teams are licensed in these leagues, 2nd placed will play winners (if licensed) of Tayside (with EoS and 14th of LL East), same with WoS Prem and SoS winners for a playoff with 14th team in tier 4. 13th and 14th relegated into relevant tier 6 leagues...

TIER 6 - 14 teams, 26 games. Promotion decided on keeping the tier 5 leagues at 14 teams but ALL league winners promoted (NCL given an option)

TIER 7 - plenty of room for new teams and competitive games for all

It might not look fair to start with but it would evolve pretty quickly and should remain fair as the seasons go on...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think theyd accept conferences again if it came to it. Their preference is for a divisional structure for their own clubs benefit to which I agree with to a point. But I'm sure theyd accept it conferences at tier 7 if all ersjfa clubs that CANcome come over do.
I don't think there's as much support for that at current Conference level as you might think Alan.

I'd reckon most, if not all, for a variety of reasons, would legitimately feel the conference's have already served their purpose, as good as they have been.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

I don't think there's as much support for that at current Conference level as you might think Alan.

I'd reckon most, if not all, for a variety of reasons, would legitimately feel the conference's have already served their purpose, as good as they have been.
 

I get what your saying I'm meaning more it wouldnt be a redline we will not have conferences next season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I get what your saying I'm meaning more it wouldnt be a redline we will not have conferences next season
You think?

For the clubs being relegated from the Premier and those not being promoted this season to it you'd be asking them to take a further hit on promotion places from the already tight 1.5 from 12 to 1 from 16, over 3 conferences (unless the premier was willing to go to 6 down for a season to allow 2 up, which is highly unlikely ).

You'd also be asking the teams at the bottom of the current conferences, who are finding it a struggle in both conferences this season, to go through that again. And based on what I saw yesterday those clubs are arguably a better standard than some in the ERSJFA Premier South already, so we'd be exarcebating that split/issue.

Personal opinion, but for me next year has to be a 3 up/3 down first division made up of the clubs who finish in the top X positions this season. Hopefully that would be a decent league of 16.

If we need conferences below that to avoid going too deep in the structure, fair enough. But not for me at Tier 7 again next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

You think? emoji846.png

For the clubs being relegated from the Premier and those not being promoted this season to it you'd be asking them to take a further hit on promotion places from the already tight 1.5 from 12 to 1 from 16, over 3 conferences (unless the premier was willing to go to 6 down for a season to allow 2 up, which is highly unlikely emoji846.png).

You'd also be asking the teams at the bottom of the current conferences, who are finding it a struggle in both conferences this season, to go through that again. And based on what I saw yesterday those clubs are arguably a better standard than some in the ERSJFA Premier South already, so we'd be exarcebating that split/issue.

Personal opinion, but for me next year has to be a 3 up/3 down first division made up of the clubs who finish in the top X positions this season. Hopefully that would be a decent league of 16.

If we need conferences below that to avoid going too deep in the structure, fair enough. But not for me at Tier 7 again next year.

Spot on, a first divison at tier 7 next season seems to be the mood at the moment amongst many clubs.  It's time to put into place the building blocks of what the EoS is going to look like moving forward.  If that means a single division, or more conferences, at tier 8 to absorb an influx of new applicants then fair enough.

Another season of Conferences at tier 7 in order to accomodate an unknown number of non-members club who might be thinking about joining (or might not) isn't going to be popular I'd imagine.  Clubs are looking for a decision sooner rather than later so they know what to aim for in the run-in to the end of the season., eg a top 6 finish in the Conferences could guarantee a place in a new First.

Some of course will call that vindictive and narrow minded towards non member clubs 🤣

Edited by Burnie_man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spyro said:

This should be in the “starting from scratch” thread but at least it’ll get seen here...

Copy-of-Pyramid.pdf 68.42 kB · 2 downloads


TIER 1 - same as now. 12 teams, split after 33 games, 38 games in total. 12th automatically relegated, 11th into playoff.

TIER 2 - as tier 1 with 1st automatically promoted and 2nd, 3rd and 4th into playoff. 12th automatically relegated with 11th into playoff.

TIER 3 - 18 teams, 34 games. 1st automatically promoted, 2nd, 3rd and 4th into playoff. Bottom 3 automatically relegated with 15th going into playoff.

TIER 4 - 16 teams, 30 games. 3 league winners automatically promoted with the 3 2nd placed teams going into playoff with 15th in T3. 15th and 16th automatically relegated (if top tier 5 teams are or are close to being licensed) with 14th into playoff if needed

TIER 5 - 14 teams, 26 games. HL2, EoS Prem and WoS Prem licensed winners automatically promoted. If top 2 teams are licensed in these leagues, 2nd placed will play winners (if licensed) of Tayside (with EoS and 14th of LL East), same with WoS Prem and SoS winners for a playoff with 14th team in tier 4. 13th and 14th relegated into relevant tier 6 leagues...

TIER 6 - 14 teams, 26 games. Promotion decided on keeping the tier 5 leagues at 14 teams but ALL league winners promoted (NCL given an option)

TIER 7 - plenty of room for new teams and competitive games for all

It might not look fair to start with but it would evolve pretty quickly and should remain fair as the seasons go on...

My heid hurts again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Think it's what the ERSJFA decide at a meeting on these options that matters more. If they decide they only want in at tier 6 as a feeder to the LL including clubs north of the Tay boundary and the SJFA is doing the negotiating rather than the regions what happens next? The initials of the national association provide a hint. There's a reason why the SJFA would have still wanted the east and west in at tier 6 as one of the options for discussion.

It's unfortunate the issue of whether the Tayside boundary actually matters is superimposed on top of all of this as it means a straight absorption of junior clubs in the east by the EoS doesn't make the issue of what to do with what would be left of the ERSJFA north of the Tay go away. Under those conditions the ERSJFA is likely to also linger on south of the Tay as well and that spells ongoing trouble for coming up with any solution when the SJFA is doing the negotiating as a national association.

I doubt anything is going to be resolved on this in time for next season unless the SFA have mysterious yet to be revealed powers to impose a solution, which seems unlikely. Best thing to speed things along would probably be a further mass defection from the ERSJFA to the EoS but all the recent posts from the new teams in at tier 8 brigade on here shows that there are people around in EoS circles who are likely to wind up actively undermining that possibility by their words and actions. 

Dear, dear me. The everyone new at tier 8 brigade......

 

Your agenda continually shines through when your mask slips, after multiple posts spent trying to further a narrative that is continually proven to be both unworkable and unreasonable.

 

Just because you beat me over the head with the same evidence (that is proven to have little legitimacy) doesn't mean I will suddenly awaken from my slumber and suffer some form of short/long term amnesia and thinks it reasonable to give the sjfa everything their way, because that's what they want now they want involved.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

My heid hurts again.

The bairns left the crayons lying out last night again 😳😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

You think? emoji846.png

For the clubs being relegated from the Premier and those not being promoted this season to it you'd be asking them to take a further hit on promotion places from the already tight 1.5 from 12 to 1 from 16, over 3 conferences (unless the premier was willing to go to 6 down for a season to allow 2 up, which is highly unlikely emoji846.png).

You'd also be asking the teams at the bottom of the current conferences, who are finding it a struggle in both conferences this season, to go through that again. And based on what I saw yesterday those clubs are arguably a better standard than some in the ERSJFA Premier South already, so we'd be exarcebating that split/issue.

Personal opinion, but for me next year has to be a 3 up/3 down first division made up of the clubs who finish in the top X positions this season. Hopefully that would be a decent league of 16.

If we need conferences below that to avoid going too deep in the structure, fair enough. But not for me at Tier 7 again next year.

You maybe at tier 6 next season being optimistic 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:
  • Who's going to be there to tell them its the Lowland League running it?
  • Who's there to tell them it would be by application with priority given to those with licencing and not just the West Premiership getting slotted in?
  • Who's going to be there to say that it would mean losing the Junior Cup?
  • Who's going to be there to explain all the problems of the East and that the West going in on its own at Tier 6 has the best chance of passing the PWG?
  • Anyone likely to mention that the West and East in at Tier 6 has already been voted down?

Nobody. Certainly no representatives from the LL, EoS or SFA as far as i'm aware. Not that the SFA would matter much considering how they've handled things.

Fake news or a statement of fact(s) ? Either way, the West Junior clubs need to look at what is best for their finances, their fans, and for the future of non league football in Scotland.

Remembering what Isa (who ?) said, that without Talbot, the West won't join the pyramid, recent impressions gained from Beechwood Park are that whilst they won't do a 'go it alone  Kellty', they may 'do a 'Bonnyrigg'  by becoming the Junior's standard bearer for an advance to the pyramid ?   

With something as important as the meeting on 16 Jan, representatives from the Lowland League should be invited to the meeting to make a pyramid presentation, and then answer key questions. Thereafter the SLL Reps should leave the meeting, so that theSJFA and the Junior clubs can consider the outcome from the 4 options, and decide what they want to do next.

I agree with FWF's views, that this is unlikely to happen, which means that further discussions, more meetings, delays, etc, will effectively run down the clock, and the pyramid opportunity for the West in  2020/21, will be lost.   

I hope that I am wrong !   

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So have any teams indicated they wish to join the east of Scotland? I know this has became very pyramid based and a lot comments of juniors on the west, but in regards to new eos clubs is there any amateurs or juniors that people have heard are rumoured to be applying, I tried scrolling through but brain overload. If anyone knows would be much appreciated.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rumours so far have been Thornton, Kirkcaldy & Dysart and Luncarty and there has been a lot of speculation about Fauldhouse.

Edited by LongTimeLurker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rumours so far have been Thornton, Kirkcaldy & Dysart and Luncarty and there has been a lot of speculation about Fauldhouse.

Thanks, Kirkcaldy have benefitted from their merger so woudlnt be a bad move. Also fauldhouse no shock after the fox holes. Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thornton would need to enclose their park if they joined. they had planning permission for this years ago but never did it would imagine it would cost a bit to do

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...