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Moses McNeil

New clubs in the East of Scotland

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49 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

We need to do what is right for the club and league, not the player.  If a player doesn't fancy travelling they sign for a club that provides less of it.  Plenty of part-time players happy to travel up and down the country every week...

You want the best players playing and if there is a trend that the players that belong at tier 7 in terms of ability prefer a more localised format then that should be taken into consideration.

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5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

You want the best players playing and if there is a trend that the players that belong at tier 7 in terms of ability prefer a more localised format then that should be taken into consideration.

That's the tail wagging the dog.  Everyone involved in football knows that the best players don't always play at the level they can play at for a whole variety of reasons. Travel being just one part of that, work commitments, family life, playing with mates, enjoying winning every week etc.

Shoehorning clubs into small regional leagues so as not to upset players is no way to run a league.  There is no identifiable "trend", and I don't believe there is a whole swathe of players not playing in eg EoS Premier or LL because of the travelling.  Yes, there will be some, just like there will be some playing LL or HL who could easily play SPFL1.  It happens, it's always happened.

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9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

You want the best players playing and if there is a trend that the players that belong at tier 7 in terms of ability prefer a more localised format then that should be taken into consideration.

There's nothing to show such a trend though.

North Region added to the pyramid, then the First Division is tier 7 and North wide.

West Region gets added to the pyramid, then the Championship is tier 7 and West wide.

Old East Region had been added to the pyramid, the Premier Division would have been Tier 7 and East wide.

The EoSFL could have split geographically this year, but kept a East wide element at tier 7 through the Conferences and Inter Conference play.

It's tier 8 that seems to need it and you need enough clubs to make such a split viable.

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LL
EOS Premier
EOS First
EOS Second
EOS Conferences

If and when the ersjfa move over. I wouldn't support the ersjfa teams coming into the First division, this would bump the clubs who bought into the pyramid down and wouldn't be fair, particularly given ersjfa clubs have now had 2 years to apply for the eos.

Regional football being better is a myth. Particularly for smaller clubs at the lower levels.

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10 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

LL
EOS Premier
EOS First
EOS Second
EOS Conferences

If and when the ersjfa move over. I wouldn't support the ersjfa teams coming into the First division, this would bump the clubs who bought into the pyramid down and wouldn't be fair, particularly given ersjfa clubs have now had 2 years to apply for the eos.

Regional football being better is a myth. Particularly for smaller clubs at the lower levels.

I think the time has come to stop hanging around waiting for ERJFA clubs to make up their minds, as you say they've twice had their chance to join at a decent level, now any new applicant should have to join at the bottom rung.

The EoS need to decide how everything is going to look next season.  As it stands, the clubs in the Premier have no idea what they'll be playing in next season if they suffer the drop, and that's not good given we're now in January.  Also, the Conference clubs need to know if a top 5/6/7  finish gets them a new "First Division" place, or another season of Conferences.

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36 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I think the time has come to stop hanging around waiting for ERJFA clubs to make up their minds, as you say they've twice had their chance to join at a decent level, now any new applicant should have to join at the bottom rung.

The usual selfish self-interest mentality that plagues Scottish football. It's reasonable to insist on tier 7 entry if only clubs south of the team 42 HL:LL boundary are involved given pretty much all the superleague sides defected but insisting on it being at tier 8 would be both farcical and vindictive. If (and as things stand it looks unlikely that the SFA can get this to happen by consensus, unfortunately) Tayside clubs were to become involved at least some would have to be integrated at tier 6 given they were blocked from applying over the last two seasons.

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The usual selfish self-interest mentality that plagues Scottish football. It's reasonable to insist on tier 7 entry if only clubs south of the team 42 HL:LL boundary are involved given pretty much all the superleague sides defected but insisting on it being at tier 8 would be both farcical and vindictive. If (and as things stand it looks unlikely that the SFA can get this to happen by consensus, unfortunately) Tayside clubs were to become involved at least some would have to be integrated at tier 6 given they were blocked from applying over the last two seasons.

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It would have been reasonable for the clubs who moved 2 years ago to insist they kept their status in a top league. They didn't. They joined the pyramid and accepted they would have to work into the top league, in time.

 

It isn't reasonable to expect clubs in a pyramid to accept clubs from a league outwith the pyramid jumping/bypassing them 2 years later. Particularly when the incoming clubs are currently playing for an association who have done little to help shape the structure, other than downplay it and attempt to undermine it, since its inception.

 

What doesn't help is your continual refusal to accept that junior clubs, particularly in the east, are asking to join an already flourishing set up. They will have to accept whichever place they are accommodated.

 

Let me be clear, this isn't a merger, this is the sjfa seeking to join an established set up. A set up filled with clubs who have taken leaps and bounds forward since cutting ties with the sjfa.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The usual selfish self-interest mentality that plagues Scottish football. It's reasonable to insist on tier 7 entry if only clubs south of the team 42 HL:LL boundary are involved given pretty much all the superleague sides defected but insisting on it being at tier 8 would be both farcical and vindictive. If (and as things stand it looks unlikely that the SFA can get this to happen by consensus, unfortunately) Tayside clubs were to become involved at least some would have to be integrated at tier 6 given they were blocked from applying over the last two seasons.

Every junior/am team was given the chance in 18/19 season to join at tier 6, then again in 19/20 season at tier 7, so if the bottom tier in 20/21 season is tier 8 then that is where you join and fight for promotion as in England. In no league/pyramid do you join where you feel like because you used to play those teams in a former incarnation of football.

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Just now, Lincolnimp said:

Every junior/am team was given the chance in 18/19 season to join at tier 6, ...

The SFA Board in the PWG minutes last season clearly wanted the ERSJFA in at tier 6 for this season as a feeder to the LL and ERSJFA clubs were being assured by the SJFA that was what would happen so it's not as clear cut as that.

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12 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SFA Board in the PWG minutes last season clearly wanted the ERSJFA in at tier 6 for this season as a feeder to the LL and ERSJFA clubs were being assured by the SJFA that was what would happen so it's not as clear cut as that.

Indeed.

However, we should all recall that the SFA's representatives were subsequently informed that they had been ill advised. Suspect your comment has over-looked this.

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41 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The usual selfish self-interest mentality that plagues Scottish football. It's reasonable to insist on tier 7 entry if only clubs south of the team 42 HL:LL boundary are involved given pretty much all the superleague sides defected but insisting on it being at tier 8 would be both farcical and vindictive. If (and as things stand it looks unlikely that the SFA can get this to happen by consensus, unfortunately) Tayside clubs were to become involved at least some would have to be integrated at tier 6 given they were blocked from applying over the last two seasons.

Here we go again

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25 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SFA Board in the PWG minutes last season clearly wanted the ERSJFA in at tier 6 for this season as a feeder to the LL and ERSJFA clubs were being assured by the SJFA that was what would happen so it's not as clear cut as that.

Where's the clearly wanted part? 

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31 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

It would have been reasonable for the clubs who moved 2 years ago to insist they kept their status in a top league. They didn't. They joined the pyramid and accepted they would have to work into the top league, in time.

 

It isn't reasonable to expect clubs in a pyramid to accept clubs from a league outwith the pyramid jumping/bypassing them 2 years later. Particularly when the incoming clubs are currently playing for an association who have done little to help shape the structure, other than downplay it and attempt to undermine it, since its inception.

 

What doesn't help is your continual refusal to accept that junior clubs, particularly in the east, are asking to join an already flourishing set up. They will have to accept whichever place they are accommodated.

 

Let me be clear, this isn't a merger, this is the sjfa seeking to join an established set up. A set up filled with clubs who have taken leaps and bounds forward since cutting ties with the sjfa.

Agree totally.

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25 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The SFA Board in the PWG minutes last season clearly wanted the ERSJFA in at tier 6 for this season as a feeder to the LL and ERSJFA clubs were being assured by the SJFA that was what would happen so it's not as clear cut as that.

But it's just not going to happen.  There is absolutely not a single possible chance that the ERSJFA will come in to the pyramid structure alongside the EoS.   

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The usual selfish self-interest mentality that plagues Scottish football. It's reasonable to insist on tier 7 entry if only clubs south of the team 42 HL:LL boundary are involved given pretty much all the superleague sides defected but insisting on it being at tier 8 would be both farcical and vindictive. If (and as things stand it looks unlikely that the SFA can get this to happen by consensus, unfortunately) Tayside clubs were to become involved at least some would have to be integrated at tier 6 given they were blocked from applying over the last two seasons.
Yes because TJ wanting in without any comprimise in the face of common sense/logic isn't self interest at all....

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During 2018-19 the EoS left what they would be doing at Tier 7 open ended to allow for as many new members or potential mergers between them and the East Region. They also are meant to have instigated the EoS/East Region meeting that took place outwith the PWG.

They've been open and unchanging on their position for years now. While the East Region altered their format to help their members, the EoS has arguably hurt some of theirs with the Conference set up at the bottom end. Longstanding members Eyemouth United choosing a year out. Another round of Conferences at Tier 7 doesnt' do them any good. There's already a pretty clear divide this year.

image.png.31a9732d0169ad6a7d16e8398d6f2235.pngimage.png.a6b1195bccc854619386b72702cd6a65.png

Seems pretty reasonable to me at this point that the EoS creates a 16 team EoS First Division.

The rest underneath that would be the bulk of any future South / East Division being largely based in Lothians & Borders. That could allow all the 22 South of Tay juniors to join with minimum disruption to them as you split that into roughly a 2nd Division with two 15x leagues.

Or all of the 38 East Region teams join the 8 and you get x3 Regional Conferences that could be used to set up a single 16 team 2nd Division. With x2 regional 3rd Divisions beneath it.

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2 hours ago, G4Mac said:

Regional football being better is a myth. Particularly for smaller clubs at the lower levels.

That's your opinion which is fine but I'm probably of the opposite view: It is better to 'decentralize' the structure .  The further up the chain the better so the base of the pyramid spreads out (there are too many clubs and leagues in the 'professional' structure' ). 

I also think the bottom leagues should be as accessible and cost effective as possible to help encourage new clubs to join and to allow the organisation to grow. 

It really should be made attractive for the West Lothian and Fife Juniors to join the EoS, regardless of what decisions have been made in previous years, without any need to parachute new teams in above the now established EoS ones .

I just think that a linear vertical structure is not very good for smaller clubs at the lower levels.   

Edited by Che Dail

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During 2018-19 the EoS left what they would be doing at Tier 7 open ended to allow for as many new members or potential mergers between them and the East Region. They also are meant to have instigated the EoS/East Region meeting that took place outwith the PWG.

They've been open and unchanging on their position for years now. While the East Region altered their format to help their members, the EoS has arguably hurt some of theirs with the Conference set up at the bottom end. Longstanding members Eyemouth United choosing a year out. Another round of Conferences at Tier 7 doesnt' do them any good. There's already a pretty clear divide this year.

image.png.31a9732d0169ad6a7d16e8398d6f2235.pngimage.png.a6b1195bccc854619386b72702cd6a65.png

Seems pretty reasonable to me at this point that the EoS creates a 16 team EoS First Division.

The rest underneath that would be the bulk of any future South / East Division being largely based in Lothians & Borders. That could allow all the 22 South of Tay juniors to join with minimum disruption to them as you split that into roughly a 2nd Division with two 15x leagues.

Or all of the 38 East Region teams join the 8 and you get x3 Regional Conferences that could be used to set up a single 16 team 2nd Division. With x2 regional 3rd Divisions beneath it.

 

Are you serious?

 

They didn't leave anything open for a merger. They invited applications from any clubs in the area for consideration, that is not a merger.

 

The conferences were a 1 or 2 year stop gap to allow for a structured set up in the longer term.

 

They haven't hurt any of their members with anything they have done. In fact their long term members voted for this set up (the new clubs didn't get a vote at the time)

 

Also, how can you be both open yet unchanging?

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The usual selfish self-interest mentality that plagues Scottish football. It's reasonable to insist on tier 7 entry if only clubs south of the team 42 HL:LL boundary are involved given pretty much all the superleague sides defected but insisting on it being at tier 8 would be both farcical and vindictive. If (and as things stand it looks unlikely that the SFA can get this to happen by consensus, unfortunately) Tayside clubs were to become involved at least some would have to be integrated at tier 6 given they were blocked from applying over the last two seasons.
FFS

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