FairWeatherFan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 We've seen by the chances to the East Region format that they would rather go to local leagues. For some the idea of Conferences going all over the region might actually have scared off some clubs from applying. Which is understandable when you consider that the vast majority of them never played in a region wide division when the Super-Premier-North/South structure was put in place. Having a Tier 8 split into 2nd Divisions North / South if you can get the numbers might actually be the more attractive option than another go at Tier 7 Conferences with their imbalances and possible travel distances. Not only for any juniors, but also any youths or amateurs that apply. As well as an current EoSFL sides that would end up in the 2nd Division North / South. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: When the mass defection happened the existing members saw the big picture and did what was best for the league and the pyramid and didn't force the newly joining clubs into a new tier 7 as part of a selfish self-interest agenda. If they had, the wave of defections would probably not have gone much further than Blackburn and Dalkeith. The strategic thing to do now would be to attract over as many more clubs as possible and kill off the ERSJFA as a credible league south of the Tay. To do that continuing with the conferences at tier 7 for at least one more season would be the intelligent way to go about it. I have to agree it should be tier 7 but it should be yous come now or it will be the structure after that. If all come and then that will sort it. Anyone else would have to like it or lump it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I doubt the likes of Fauldhouse would mind that much starting in a regionalised Tier 8 league considering they were pushing for regionalisation in the ERJFA anyway. They'd probably have a good chance to get up to tier 7 at the first attempt anyway. The only case that could be made for clubs joining higher than tier 8 is if the Tay boundary gets raised so Tayside clubs end up joining the EOS as the likes of Carnoustie Panmure, Broughty Athletic & Lochee United never had the chance previously to join the EOS due to geography (and at least one tried), so an argument could be made for these clubs, but south of Tay clubs have had their chance, simple as that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 6 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: The usual selfish self-interest mentality that plagues Scottish football. It's reasonable to insist on tier 7 entry if only clubs south of the team 42 HL:LL boundary are involved given pretty much all the superleague sides defected but insisting on it being at tier 8 would be both farcical and vindictive. If (and as things stand it looks unlikely that the SFA can get this to happen by consensus, unfortunately) Tayside clubs were to become involved at least some would have to be integrated at tier 6 given they were blocked from applying over the last two seasons. It's been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, the Tayside (= North of Tay) clubs will not be admitted to the EoSFL as they cannot be promoted to the Lowland League, as we've heard from clubs that have enquired. There is nothing stopping any of these North of Tay clubs applying to the Highland League and forcing their hand. It would only take four clubs. That, or we see a Tier 6 Tayside League appearing; however temporary that may be. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, AlanCamelonfan said: I have to agree it should be tier 7 but it should be yous come now or it will be the structure after that. If all come and then that will sort it. Anyone else would have to like it or lump it As an outsider from the North, I'd be inclined to give another season (and another season only) of tier 7 conferences; were the southern-ish rump of ERJFA clubs to apply, en masse. However, it would be totally valid (and totally reasonable) for the EoSFL to fix the first division at a set number of clubs from next season and then have another setup at tier 8. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Cyclizine said: It's been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, the Tayside (= North of Tay) clubs will not be admitted to the EoSFL as they cannot be promoted to the Lowland League, as we've heard from clubs that have enquired. There is nothing stopping any of these North of Tay clubs applying to the Highland League and forcing their hand. It would only take four clubs. That, or we see a Tier 6 Tayside League appearing; however temporary that may be. If none of the clubs are licensed there wouldn't be any harm in the East North SL becoming the Tier 6 league in the North - winners get Scottish Cup berth, an ambitious club like Broughty could try their luck in the HL - especially if Brechin go down. Edited January 10, 2020 by ArabAuslander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, ArabAuslander said: If none of the clubs are licensed they're wouldn't be any harm in the East North SL becoming the Tier 6 league in the North - winners get Scottish Cup berth, an ambitious club like Broughty could try their luck in the HL - especially if Brechin go down. If a tier 6 Tayside League appears, then if any of the clubs becomes licenced the Highland League would have to accept them if they won the division. To not admit then would be to jeopardise the HFL's place in the so-called pyramid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Lincolnimp said: Every junior/am team was given the chance in 18/19 season to join at tier 6, then again in 19/20 season at tier 7, so if the bottom tier in 20/21 season is tier 8 then that is where you join and fight for promotion as in England. In no league/pyramid do you join where you feel like because you used to play those teams in a former incarnation of football. Without detracting from the thrust of your point, what you said isn't quite accurate. When Chester FC applied as a phoenix club for Chester City they were initially placed on step 9 (not the bottom) and successfully appealed to be placed at step 8. When AFC Wimbledon were launched they started at step 9 - again, not the bottom. Then there's The Rangers... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Without detracting from the thrust of your point, what you said isn't quite accurate. When Chester FC applied as a phoenix club for Chester City they were initially placed on step 9 (not the bottom) and successfully appealed to be placed at step 8. When AFC Wimbledon were launched they started at step 9 - again, not the bottom. Then there's The Rangers... [emoji55]Hate to be pedantic but it'd be tier 8 & 9. In England the term step is used to demarcate levels of non-league known as the national league system with tier 5 being step 1 all the way to tier 11 which is step 7. Tier 8 & 9 would be step 4 & 5 respectively. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: As stated previously I hope the EoS board are more strategic in their thinking than many of the people who post on here. You seem to think the EoS should keep a temporary structure in place for the benefit of those clubs who have shown no interest in it so far, just in case they fancy moving over at some undefined point in the future. So the EoS retain Conferences next season and 2 clubs move, following season more Conferences and 3 clubs move, etc etc. That isn't any sort of strategy. The EoS are there to serve it's members and if the members want to move to a settled divisional structure next season then they will. That isn't self interested, that isn't vindictive, it's a league getting on with it's own business. This isn't even a debate worthy of having frankly. They have been more than open the last two seasons, they have initiated talks with the ERJFA, have made suggestions at PWG. It's not their job to fix the Pyramid and it's time to move on. The EoS will always be open to non-members clubs to apply. Edited January 10, 2020 by Burnie_man 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, GordonS said: Without detracting from the thrust of your point, what you said isn't quite accurate. When Chester FC applied as a phoenix club for Chester City they were initially placed on step 9 (not the bottom) and successfully appealed to be placed at step 8. When AFC Wimbledon were launched they started at step 9 - again, not the bottom. Then there's The Rangers... AFC Wimbledon did start at the bottom. Their request to start a step higher was refused. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) I'd agree that you'd hope the EoSL are as flexible and as accomodating as possible. They have been so far, no-one really wants to see a club that's new to the EoSL wth a sound base and a strong squad playing Eyemouth on their first season back for instance. Been a few seasons of teams that deserve better getting absolute horsings and everybody should get a fair and even level to play at. That said the EoSL administrators should be allowed to announce a cut-off at some point where any new applicants start at the bottom. Fauldhouse say, great club and probably Premier, league or the divsion below minimum if they were part of a settled league? Where should they go? Difficult situation and one the EoSL administrators have managed well up until now. Edited January 10, 2020 by RobM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 The eosfl have been accommodating beyond what is reasonable. Clubs outwith have shown no interest in getting involved through either fear of the new, loyalty to an artificial grade of football or loyalty to an association who has done nothing but hold them back. It doesn't matter who joins after the eosfl teams set their structure up. Whoever joins should join at the bottom of the structure and work up the way. As a retort of sorts, if say Bo'ness chose to apply to go west, or east, back into the juniors would the expectation be they went in at the top or would they be made go into the bottom league? Did syngenta, or Bo'ness community juniors or Linlithgow go straight into the super leagues? Did Gartcairn go straight into the west Premier or super first? We all know they didn't. Glenrothes, Inverkeithing etc have had to join at the bottom of the system. Why is it now any different a situation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Patterson Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 There's 17 clubs that are in the East Juniors currently that can join the EoS next season (I'm excluding reserve sides/community clubs of current EoS sides) add that to maybe four Ams clubs that join. It would leave the EoS First Division at 45 clubs for 20-21 - which could be possible to do three conferences of 15 sides each. The top 16 from the three conferences could form the EoS First Division for 21-22. Below that then the EoS could choose to go for a Second (16) and Third (13) Divisions OR look at going for a 15/14 geographical split as others have already said. That could be carried out at the prerogative of the clubs. Personally, I think the Tier 8 geographical split is the best course of action as it allows it to be a stepping stone into the football pyramid, and also allows a more natural pathway for any future link up with Amatuer leagues. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 9 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: The usual selfish self-interest mentality that plagues Scottish football. It's reasonable to insist on tier 7 entry if only clubs south of the team 42 HL:LL boundary are involved given pretty much all the superleague sides defected but insisting on it being at tier 8 would be both farcical and vindictive. If (and as things stand it looks unlikely that the SFA can get this to happen by consensus, unfortunately) Tayside clubs were to become involved at least some would have to be integrated at tier 6 given they were blocked from applying over the last two seasons. It is probably a good idea to ignore the 'Tayside' Lurker, as he repeats the same 'message' over and over again. Frankly it doesn't help. The Lowland/Highland boundary won't change for 2020/21, as the SFA/SPFL/HFL consultation and approval would be required, as well as that of the SLL. You know that there isn't time for this to happen. It looks like a delaying tactic on your part.. The EoSL has shown considerable flexibility in creating 2 seasons of conferences. Would the clubs vote for this for 2020/21 ? Very doubtful in my opinion. The primary issue for the PWG is the formation of a West pyramid feeder league, without being sidetracked into (different) problems in the other regions. Things may/may not be clearer after the 16th January (?) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 One last try to get my argument across with no follow ups. Tayside is still up for discussion at PWG level as far as the SFA is concerned. If the EoS posture is that there is no need for that and it is a closed issue because the team 42 boundary logically applies at tier 6 as well, there can be no flexibility for Luncarty at their current registered home ground because the rule as written for team 42 is crystal clear and provides no scope for that. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanCamelonfan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 20 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: One last try to get my argument across with no follow ups. Tayside is still up for discussion at PWG level as far as the SFA is concerned. If the EoS posture is that there is no need for that and it is a closed issue because the team 42 boundary logically applies at tier 6 as well, there can be no flexibility for Luncarty at their current registered home ground because the rule as written for team 42 is crystal clear and provides no scope for that. Imagine the paddy you are going to have when they let them in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinderbrokeyourhearts Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 I don't get why the hasn't been a sensible conclusion yet. Even if the East Juniors were to join at tier six, it could be the scenario that eg Lochee and Carnoustie get promoted through playoffs early, then what's left would be the eqwof the SOS with effectively no chance of competing in the playoffs as it would be at a false level to the standard.For me this is the sfas last chance to drive another conference season, actually after that bar one or two teams tier 7/ 8 will be reflective of the East juniors level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, GordonS said: Without detracting from the thrust of your point, what you said isn't quite accurate. When Chester FC applied as a phoenix club for Chester City they were initially placed on step 9 (not the bottom) and successfully appealed to be placed at step 8. When AFC Wimbledon were launched they started at step 9 - again, not the bottom. Then there's The Rangers... AFC Wimbledon joined at what was then the lowest senior tier in the area. What's below there is effectively the same as the amateur leagues here and new senior clubs effectively always start in the lowest senior tier. Later tier 10 became the lowest senior tier in all of England but at that time it was still tier 9 in some parts. The likes of FC United of Manchester, Darlington, Guernsey & Jersey all started at tier 10 for that reason. A phoenix club of Bury have been accepted in the National League System, meaning they will be at least tier 10 next season. Chester were an exception as they were effectively seen as the continuation of Chester City and were therefore allowed to start a bit higher, this could still happen to Bury. Edit: using the term senior is probably not entirely correct, but just to keep the comparison with Scottish football I've used it. Edited January 11, 2020 by Marten 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, GNU_Linux said: 9 hours ago, GordonS said: Without detracting from the thrust of your point, what you said isn't quite accurate. When Chester FC applied as a phoenix club for Chester City they were initially placed on step 9 (not the bottom) and successfully appealed to be placed at step 8. When AFC Wimbledon were launched they started at step 9 - again, not the bottom. Then there's The Rangers... Hate to be pedantic but it'd be tier 8 & 9. In England the term step is used to demarcate levels of non-league known as the national league system with tier 5 being step 1 all the way to tier 11 which is step 7. Tier 8 & 9 would be step 4 & 5 respectively. I know. The steps I mentioned were accurate too. Edited January 11, 2020 by GordonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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