New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Robert James]

10 minutes ago, gwd440 said:

I agree with this.  The South Super is obviously not the equal of the current East of Scotland Premier, having lost the bulk of their best teams 2 years ago, and should slot in at Tier 7.  As a compromise/concession, I would offer them one or two places in the EOS Premier, run with 17/18 teams for one season and relegate one/two extra teams at the end of the season.  The remainder of the South can run as a separate parallel entity alongside the current EOS Division One/Two, with one automatic promotion place each, plus a play-off between the runners up - similar to how this season will work with the Conferences.

Tayside clubs have more of a case for coming in at Tier 6, so slot them in under the Highland League.  Clubs will only qualify for promotion to the Highland League if they are licensed, so initially, this makes no difference to the Tayside clubs situation.

The NRJFA can also be placed at Tier 6. Again, apart from BoD, no clubs will be eligible for promotion, so no real change. 

To ensure that Scotland eventually has  a pyramid which covers all regions of Scotland, the North Caledonian League would also need to slot in at tier 6 alongside the two junior regions.  The NCL covers the city of Inverness, the north & west highlands, and the islands. There are no junior clubs in this vast region.

The PWG has already met the NCL, whose clubs have confirmed that they would wish to join the pyramid, if/when the north juniors  join. Only one NCL club, Golspie Sutherland, currently holds an SFA licence, but does not have floodlights, following neighbours' objections in the past.  Most NCL clubs are of broadly the same standard as the average SoSL clubs, and support levels  for clubs like  St Duthus (Tain), Thurso, Orkney and Golspie, are good and probably higher than many SoSL clubs.   

It should also be remembered that current HFL clubs Wick Academy, Brora Rangers and Fort William are former NCL/NCA member clubs, and because of geography, would almost certainly return to the NCL because of travelling and traditional rivalries,,  if relegated from the Highland League in the future,  rather than join an Aberdeenshire, or a Dundee/Angus  (Tayside) pyramid feeder league, who wouldn't want the significant travelling either .

[Dev]

I agree with Uncle Bob although I suggest a slightly different method of moving forward.

The different SJFA regions have different issues, although all voted overwhelmingly to become part of the Pyramid system.

Clearly the West Region clubs could move en-masse if the West Region leadership and TJ were minded to make this happen. However, they are the core of the whole problem in that I suspect that they are afraid of a change which may under-mine their personal power - no matter how good they may be at their jobs at present.

It seems to me that this FEAR of change by these Leaders is the key to the situation, which is a shame for the clubs which have voted for change.

In my view the SFA needs to address the issue of the West of Scotland being, mainly, outside the Lowland Pyramid by inviting applications to run a new West of Scotland Senior League to commence in 2020/21. The West Region Junior officials could apply to run the new league but it would also be open for others to come forward with their proposals. A time-table needs to be set for applications to run the league e,g, applications to be received by, say, 30th November, 2019.

Individual clubs would be given an SFA dead-line of 30th November, 2019, too, to make written expressions of interest in joining the league directly to the SFA. Minimum standards regarding facilities must be set out clearly in order to avoid misunderstandings. These facilities needn't all be in place for 2020/21 but they must be clearly achievable by a dead-line of, say, the start of 2022/23. A SFA Licence would NOT be necessary.

Clubs currently outside the SJFA would be able to apply.

In the event that there is enough interest from clubs to allow the project to proceed then matters can move forward formally with the SFA inviting applications for membership from individual clubs. Priority to be given to those which have already expressed interest. Applications to be made directly to the SFA.

In my view it would be necessary for the two  western clubs with Licences i.e. Girvan and Glasgow University, to become members of the league. However, they could, alternatively join the South of Scotland League so that they retain their Licenced status that way.

The number of divisions within the league would be determined by the number of suitable applications received. There is no reason why the first season couldn't adopt the EoS Conference system. There-after splitting in an agreed manner e.g. Premier, Div. One, Div. Two etc or Regionally at an agreed level below the Premier Division.

[gwd440]

11 minutes ago, Robert James said:

To ensure that Scotland eventually has  a pyramid which covers all regions of Scotland, the North Caledonian League would also need to slot in at tier 6 alongside the two junior regions.  The NCL covers the city of Inverness, the north & west highlands, and the islands. There are no junior clubs in this vast region.

The PWG has already met the NCL, whose clubs have confirmed that they would wish to join the pyramid, if/when the north juniors  join. Only one NCL club, Golspie Sutherland, currently holds an SFA licence, but does not have floodlights, following neighbours' objections in the past.  Most NCL clubs are of broadly the same standard as the average SoSL clubs, and support levels  for clubs like  St Duthus (Tain), Thurso, Orkney and Golspie, are good and probably higher than many SoSL clubs.   

It should also be remembered that current HFL clubs Wick Academy, Brora Rangers and Fort William are former NCL/NCA member clubs, and because of geography, would almost certainly return to the NCL because of travelling and traditional rivalries,,  if relegated from the Highland League in the future,  rather than join an Aberdeenshire, or a Dundee/Angus  (Tayside) pyramid feeder league, who wouldn't want the significant travelling either .

Yes, I missed out the NCL.  Its all hypothetical at the moment as there are no clubs in NCL, NRJFA or Tayside (apart from BoD) that could be promoted.  Maybe in the future these leagues would need to have some play-off system to decide who goes up.  The way things currently stand, this would be a pyramid structure in name only, but can be in place for when it is needed. 

The East situation is the one that needs more urgent attention imo.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Dev said:

I agree with Uncle Bob although I suggest a slightly different method of moving forward.

The different SJFA regions have different issues, although all voted overwhelmingly to become part of the Pyramid system.

Clearly the West Region clubs could move en-masse if the West Region leadership and TJ were minded to make this happen. However, they are the core of the whole problem in that I suspect that they are afraid of a change which may under-mine their personal power - no matter how good they may be at their jobs at present.

It seems to me that this FEAR of change by these Leaders is the key to the situation, which is a shame for the clubs which have voted for change.

In my view the SFA needs to address the issue of the West of Scotland being, mainly, outside the Lowland Pyramid by inviting applications to run a new West of Scotland Senior League to commence in 2020/21. The West Region Junior officials could apply to run the new league but it would also be open for others to come forward with their proposals. A time-table needs to be set for applications to run the league e,g, applications to be received by, say, 30th November, 2019.

Individual clubs would be given an SFA dead-line of 30th November, 2019, too, to make written expressions of interest in joining the league directly to the SFA. Minimum standards regarding facilities must be set out clearly in order to avoid misunderstandings. These facilities needn't all be in place for 2020/21 but they must be clearly achievable by a dead-line of, say, the start of 2022/23. A SFA Licence would NOT be necessary.

Clubs currently outside the SJFA would be able to apply.

In the event that there is enough interest from clubs to allow the project to proceed then matters can move forward formally with the SFA inviting applications for membership from individual clubs. Priority to be given to those which have already expressed interest. Applications to be made directly to the SFA.

In my view it would be necessary for the two  western clubs with Licences i.e. Girvan and Glasgow University, to become members of the league. However, they could, alternatively join the South of Scotland League so that they retain their Licenced status that way.

The number of divisions within the league would be determined by the number of suitable applications received. There is no reason why the first season couldn't adopt the EoS Conference system. There-after splitting in an agreed manner e.g. Premier, Div. One, Div. Two etc or Regionally at an agreed level below the Premier Division.

It's what needs to happen but have any west clubs made this suggestion to the SFA, or requested the SFA look into this?  I can't see the SFA doing this off their own back without encouragement from at least some clubs in the west.  I can't see them going to all that trouble without having some sort of indication that it would work.

[drs]

15 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Thornton Hibs would struggle, unless they properly enclose the ground. Sygenta were already knocked back, Linlithgow Rose CSC wouldn't get in at the sports centre (not even sure they're allowed to play Junior Cup ties there). Not sure about Rosyth.

If the Wee Wee Rose cant play cup ties at their ground then I don't see how Rosyth could - its a cage with standing down one side and the pavilion being around 50 yards away up a path and across a small road.

This is me standing behind the barrier on the one side and then a shot of the pavilion where I'm probably closer to it than I am the cage.

[Burnie_man]

I can't see that meeting EoS requirements in that case (neither does it meet ERJFA requirements).

Tweedmouth's set-up involved walking from Berwick Rangers changing rooms round to Old Shielfield, but that was only allowed to be a temporary solution and they now have portable buildings inside the ground for changing.

That said, Inverkeithing is an odd one, as their changing facilities are nowhere near being inside the boundary of the ground either and the fence is also an issue as well, you can clearly watch the game without paying in. Not sure if they have to do more work to comply and are being given time to do so, if not then it does beg the question as to how on earth Ballast Bank complies.

[Robert James]

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

It's what needs to happen but have any west clubs made this suggestion to the SFA, or requested the SFA look into this?  I can't see the SFA doing this off their own back without encouragement from at least some clubs in the west.  I can't see them going to all that trouble without having some sort of indication that it would work.

I agree., with a proviso that if the West juniors decide not to join en masse, the existing arrangement whereby the Junior champions in the 3 regions  enter the Scottish cup each season, should be withdrawn next year. (I have no objection to the Junior and Amateur cup winners playing in the Scottish, as this is not directly related to being part of (or not) the pyramid). Hopefully the SJFA will realise that its insistence that both the West and East juniors must  join the pyramid at the same time : 2020/21 (at Tier 6), or the West juniors won't join, is a complete non-starter. 

 If also needs to be made clear by the SFA, that they will appoint interim administrators from say, the Lowland, East of Scotland, and South of Scotland Leagues to coordinate the formation of a  West of Scotland League, until its newly elected WoEL clubs, can appoint their own Management Team.

[Doonhamer1969]

On 02/09/2019 at 10:38, Dev said:

I agree with Uncle Bob although I suggest a slightly different method of moving forward.

The different SJFA regions have different issues, although all voted overwhelmingly to become part of the Pyramid system.

Clearly the West Region clubs could move en-masse if the West Region leadership and TJ were minded to make this happen. However, they are the core of the whole problem in that I suspect that they are afraid of a change which may under-mine their personal power - no matter how good they may be at their jobs at present.

It seems to me that this FEAR of change by these Leaders is the key to the situation, which is a shame for the clubs which have voted for change.

In my view the SFA needs to address the issue of the West of Scotland being, mainly, outside the Lowland Pyramid by inviting applications to run a new West of Scotland Senior League to commence in 2020/21. The West Region Junior officials could apply to run the new league but it would also be open for others to come forward with their proposals. A time-table needs to be set for applications to run the league e,g, applications to be received by, say, 30th November, 2019.

Individual clubs would be given an SFA dead-line of 30th November, 2019, too, to make written expressions of interest in joining the league directly to the SFA. Minimum standards regarding facilities must be set out clearly in order to avoid misunderstandings. These facilities needn't all be in place for 2020/21 but they must be clearly achievable by a dead-line of, say, the start of 2022/23. A SFA Licence would NOT be necessary.

Clubs currently outside the SJFA would be able to apply.

In the event that there is enough interest from clubs to allow the project to proceed then matters can move forward formally with the SFA inviting applications for membership from individual clubs. Priority to be given to those which have already expressed interest. Applications to be made directly to the SFA.

In my view it would be necessary for the two  western clubs with Licences i.e. Girvan and Glasgow University, to become members of the league. However, they could, alternatively join the South of Scotland League so that they retain their Licenced status that way.

The number of divisions within the league would be determined by the number of suitable applications received. There is no reason why the first season couldn't adopt the EoS Conference system. There-after splitting in an agreed manner e.g. Premier, Div. One, Div. Two etc or Regionally at an agreed level below the Premier Division.

Pretty much agree with this. Similarly, Highland League invite applications to join a Highland League 2 to sort the 'problem' of the North Juniors.

[Doonhamer1969]

On 02/09/2019 at 01:12, Robert James said:

No, as it will be ten years down the road, before the juniors and amateurs would be integrated into a fully fledged pyramid, if the recent and present situation, is any guide to the future.

 

However, the primary focus needs to be sorted out in the West for 2020/21. It is my view that the present stalemate, will drag on, unless the PWG gives decisive leadership, and addresses the following, very soon (we are now in September). It should :

(1) advise the SJFA that the West and East region juniors are separate issues, and will be dealt with as such with the East being a second priority, with a target date of season 2021/22

(2) advise the West Region juniors that IF all the outstanding issues about rules, etc, are resolved, these clubs will be  assimilated into the pyramid en bloc , assuming they wish to do so

(3) if the West juniors do not support this proposed 'en masse' pyramid assimilation, the SFA will propose and advertise (in January 2020) the formation of a West of Scotland senior League, at tier 6,  in time for 2020/21. A minimum of 8 clubs  (and ideally 16 clubs) will be required for the WoSL to be established

(4) if the establishment of a WoSL also fails, the West clubs will be left to decide individually whether they (i) apply to join the SoSL, or (ii) remain outwith the pyramid  and continuing in the juniors. If so, Scottish Cup rights for the 3 regional junior champions, will be withdrawn from next season, leaving only the Junior cup winners, being entitled to participate thereafter 

In return, the SFA will recommend to the Lowland League, that it moves to 2 promotion and 2 relegation places between tiers 5 & 6 for 2021/22, thereby facilitating greater movement within the pyramid, in recognition of the West clubs joining.

The SFA will also guarantee that there will be no further changes in the club licensing rules for 3 years, thereby preventing another floodlights debacle.

It is time to move on.

 

  

Spot on. Time this was sorted one way or t'other.

[Ginaro]

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Even before this Cup nonsense I felt Fauldhouse might consider moving this year. The whole centenary season nostalgia seemed to be the main talking point over staying junior.

[Ginaro]

28 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Even before this Cup nonsense I felt Fauldhouse might consider moving this year. The whole centenary season nostalgia seemed to be the main talking point over staying junior.

That and the fact they got the regional split they wanted for this season. But then if you're not travelling to Tayside, it's not much different to the EOS so you might as well move and have a chance of playing against all the familiar ex-junior sides.

[Burnie_man]

Craigroyston folding end of season.

[Steven W]

14 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Craigroyston folding end of season.

Always sad to hear news like that. Their recent results won't have helped things. 

St. Marks Park is on my list to visit - so will need to go soon. Match v Tweedmouth in January appeals

[GNU_Linux]

 https://twitter.com/CraigroystonFC/status/1200039102369947653

 

 

 

 

[Burnie_man]

I suppose Craigroyston are in the difficult position of being in a big city, representing no identifiable area of it, and little if any support whilst at the same time having to deal with increasing costs, and sadly vandalism.  Perhaps a move into the Amateur leagues would be an option, it's a great surface at St.Marks.

[Shogun2]

That would be a shame.. One of the best pitches I've played on.. Quality surface.. Craigie always used to be a test for any team so hopefully they can regroup 

[GNU_Linux]

I suppose Craigroyston are in the difficult position of being in a big city, representing no identifiable area of it, and little if any support whilst at the same time having to deal with increasing costs, and sadly vandalism.  Perhaps a move into the Amateur leagues would be an option, it's a great surface at St.Marks.

Assuming Craigroyston don't resurface in the LEAFA Leith Athletic could take up residence as Warriston is closer to Leith than their current ground out in Riccarton.

[snowball]

18 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I suppose Craigroyston are in the difficult position of being in a big city, representing no identifiable area of it, and little if any support whilst at the same time having to deal with increasing costs, and sadly vandalism.  Perhaps a move into the Amateur leagues would be an option, it's a great surface at St.Marks.

You have summed up our problem exactly. Difficult to attract sponsors especially new ones. No mentionable support so little income costs increasing and our local vandals.

Hopefully something can be done to help us survive

[Burnie_man]

10 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

20 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I suppose Craigroyston are in the difficult position of being in a big city, representing no identifiable area of it, and little if any support whilst at the same time having to deal with increasing costs, and sadly vandalism.  Perhaps a move into the Amateur leagues would be an option, it's a great surface at St.Marks.

Assuming Craigroyston don't resurface in the LEAFA Leith Athletic could take up residence as Warriston is closer to Leith than their current ground out in Riccarton.

Very true, not that far from Leith Links, their original base.  Would probably need a bit of investment to make the ground a bit more secure but a good base for them, much better than where they are.