Marten Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: The SFA envisages tier 6 leagues as having 16 clubs and 30 game seasons. Currently the NCL has 9 clubs and a 16 game season with a revolving door on membership because the clubs in the area are finding it difficult to even sustain that sort of setup on an amateur basis. You are taking the NCL much more seriously than it deserves to be taken. A year from now they will probably have lost their only SFA full member if Golspie Sutherland can't get floodlights installed. A proper pyramid in Scotland needs to cover the entire country. Due to Scotland's geography, that can be a challenge. There is a well run league covering the most remote parts of the country. They adhere to SFA rules, are willing to take part in the pyramid and offer clubs in those remote areas a chance of winter football. They deserve to be taken seriously because of that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Think you guys really need to listen when people from the north try to explain to you that this is amateur level football that isn't comparable to the juniors in the central belt and is struggling to stay afloat because most players in that part of the country prefer to play in summer leagues. There is basically zero chance that any of the current NCL clubs could sustain HL football without some sugar daddy pumping lots of money in Brora Rangers style. You need to look to the Aberdeen and Dundee areas for clubs that might be able to do that sort of thing but there is no huge enthusiasm from the likes of Banks o' Dee and Lochee United where playing away games in Wick is concerned so there are no easy answers on this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Needs a play off between north juniors a new Tayside league if it ever happens and NCL as feeders to hfl. A few years and it will be heavily Aberdeen / Dundee bias in hfl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Think you guys really need to listen when people from the north try to explain to you that this is amateur level football that isn't comparable to the juniors in the central belt and is struggling to stay afloat because most players in that part of the country prefer to play in summer leagues. There is basically zero chance that any of the current NCL clubs could sustain HL football without some sugar daddy pumping lots of money in Brora Rangers style. You need to look to the Aberdeen and Dundee areas for clubs that might be able to do that sort of thing but there is no huge enthusiasm from the likes of Banks o' Dee and Lochee United where playing away games in Wick is concerned so there are no easy answers on this. We do listen to the people from up in the North. They also the NCL AND the North Region are basically amateur. The vast majority in the both regions cannot sustain couldn't sustain HL in its current form. Which is why having 3 feeders beneath the Highland League is considered the best option. This isn't so that clubs can necessarily be promoted from it. In fact I see most people say that promotion wouldn't be automatic or would involve a playoff. The main reason its there is for Fort William or Wick Academy to be relegated to if it ever came to it. The NCL would be to the HL what the SoSFL is to the LL. Eventually once you've got everyone in a pyramid, the 3 feeder system under the HL and the LL will no doubt change. But its the place to start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Think you guys really need to listen when people from the north try to explain to you that this is amateur level football that isn't comparable to the juniors in the central belt and is struggling to stay afloat because most players in that part of the country prefer to play in summer leagues. There is basically zero chance that any of the current NCL clubs could sustain HL football without some sugar daddy pumping lots of money in Brora Rangers style. You need to look to the Aberdeen and Dundee areas for clubs that might be able to do that sort of thing but there is no huge enthusiasm from the likes of Banks o' Dee and Lochee United where playing away games in Wick is concerned so there are no easy answers on this. I agree. Last season I attended an NCL match for the first time, Invergordon v Orkney, and I realised I've finally reached the level of football I could have played. I saw Fort William play Linlithgow Rose around the same time, and both clubs were a long way short of that Fort William, one of the worst sides the HL has ever seen. There's a bit of a gulf between the bottom of the HL and the top of the NCL - NCL is more like the mid to bottom end of the North Juniors. They're well organised and there are obviously good committee guys keeping it all running, and anyone doing that deserves a lot of respect from everyone that loves football. But that shouldn't hide the fact it's a very low standard of football played mostly on public parks in front of crowds safely under 50 with gate money collected in a whip-round. And for info, here are Golspie's Scottish Cup scores, from last season backwards: 2018: Golspie 1 v 4 Burntisland 2017: Glenafton 6 v 1 Golspie 2016: Banks O'Dee 4 v 0 Golspie 2015: Golspie 1 v Cove 6 2014: Golspie 1 v 4 Dalbeattie 2013: Golspie 0 v 4 Edinburgh City 2012: Cove 7 v 0 Golspie Hawick RA 2 v 4 Golspie 2011: Gala FR 5 v 2 Golspie 2010: Girvan 4 v 0 Golspie Fort William 2 v 3 Golspie Golspie 2 v 2 Fort William 2009: Nairn 5 v 2 Golspie 2008: Whitehill Welfare 6 v 1 Golspie Golspie 3 v 1 Preston -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 The debate about the quality is completely irrelevant. The NCL want to be part of the pyramid and should be afforded that opportunity. If they don't prove to be good enough to get promoted then so be it. Golspie have only won that league twice in the last 10 seasons, so using their results is not really a brilliant barometer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, craigkillie said: The debate about the quality is completely irrelevant. The NCL want to be part of the pyramid and should be afforded that opportunity. If they don't prove to be good enough to get promoted then so be it. Golspie have only won that league twice in the last 10 seasons, so using their results is not really a brilliant barometer. Agreed, but it's the only competitive comparison possible, and they're rarely far away. The NCL may want to be in the pyramid, but with such a huge drop for anyone getting relegated from the HL I think the HL clubs are entitled to say they won't accept relegation into it as it stands. It would be like dropping from the LL to Division One in the Caledonian Amateur Football League. And it's not a geographic comparator with the HL anyway, all of its members are in or north of Inverness with Golspie being the middle of the nine, while 14 of the 17 HL members are east of Inverness, with more than half of the league east of the Spey. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 39 minutes ago, GordonS said: I agree. Last season I attended an NCL match for the first time, Invergordon v Orkney, and I realised I've finally reached the level of football I could have played. I saw Fort William play Linlithgow Rose around the same time, and both clubs were a long way short of that Fort William, one of the worst sides the HL has ever seen. There's a bit of a gulf between the bottom of the HL and the top of the NCL - NCL is more like the mid to bottom end of the North Juniors. They're well organised and there are obviously good committee guys keeping it all running, and anyone doing that deserves a lot of respect from everyone that loves football. But that shouldn't hide the fact it's a very low standard of football played mostly on public parks in front of crowds safely under 50 with gate money collected in a whip-round. And for info, here are Golspie's Scottish Cup scores, from last season backwards: 2018: Golspie 1 v 4 Burntisland 2017: Glenafton 6 v 1 Golspie 2016: Banks O'Dee 4 v 0 Golspie 2015: Golspie 1 v Cove 6 2014: Golspie 1 v 4 Dalbeattie 2013: Golspie 0 v 4 Edinburgh City 2012: Cove 7 v 0 Golspie Hawick RA 2 v 4 Golspie 2011: Gala FR 5 v 2 Golspie 2010: Girvan 4 v 0 Golspie Fort William 2 v 3 Golspie Golspie 2 v 2 Fort William 2009: Nairn 5 v 2 Golspie 2008: Whitehill Welfare 6 v 1 Golspie Golspie 3 v 1 Preston 15 games - 3 wins, 1 draw and 11 losses The track record of the NCL clubs in the North of Scotland Cup isn't actually worse at a glance, but there's close games in amongst the bunch and the odd winning of a tie. Participation in the HFL u20 and HFL North u17 leagues are pretty good. Certainly don't finish bottom. Those youth prospects may well get picked up by the nearby Highland League clubs. In the last 25 years the league lost Wick Academy and then Inverness City. One established itself in the Highland League and the other rose to North Super League status and only folded due to ground issues. So there might well be the odd success story over time. There's also the fact Fort William, Wick Academy, Brora Rangers, Nairn County, Clachnacuddin, Forres Mechanics, Buckie Rovers, Elgin City have ran a team in the league. Some of them (cough Fort cough) have a chance to come down to Tier 6 level. Maybe even some of the NRJFA Moray sides might consider a move to the NCL set up if the NRJFA and Tayside clubs merge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Are any of the NCL clubs due to join the EoS........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 37 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: Are any of the NCL clubs due to join the EoS........ Apparently Orkney have applied. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron Wilson Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 13 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: It's an amateur league after all that has been tottering on the brink of winding up for lack of teams in recent times and plays a relatively short season because summer amateur and welfare leagues tend to dominate in that part of the country. All the more reason for the NCL to get Incorporated, to make it stick out and be the THE league for that part of the country. Voluntary promotion only though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 22/08/2019 at 19:43, FairWeatherFan said: The seeded conferences with inter-conference games wasn't a format anyone really predicted a year ago. It leaves me wondering how split the clubs are over what the future looks like working with the current membership. The EoSL waited to see how many more junior clubs joined prior to its 2019 AGM, before determining the current structure at Tier 7. Had another half a dozen or so new clubs joined the league, the current inter-conference arrangement would not have been required/introduced. Instead, the two Tier 7 divisions would have operated as separate parallel divisions, with play-offs, as was the case with Tier 6, in 2018/19. There seems to be a 'hardcore' of junior clubs who don't want or intend to join the pyramid now, or in the forseeable future, which is reasonable and acceptable. Let them remain as they are. The PWG needs to concentrate on the West (only) in readiness for 2020/21. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 23/08/2019 at 19:01, Marten said: I think the north needs a different approach from the south indeed. Probably treat it as England used to treat promotion/relegation between steps 4 and 5. That can be done by putting the NRJFA, NCL and Tayside leagues notionally at tier 6 but without compulsory promotion. Clubs that want to get promoted have to indicate that before a certain cut-off date. If there is any interest and an interested team finishes in the top 2 in their league, they get promoted with the bottom placed HFL team getting relegated. If there are more applicants finishing in a top 2 position, a play-off can be held. If there is no interest, nothing changes. In reality this would mean that for a while, nothing much will change. However, clubs that want to, can get access to licensing. In the longer term, eventually compulsory promotion could be possible. Agree totally. The NCL has already met the PWG, and had discussions with the HFL about the pyramid. The Caley league has signalled its interest in becoming a feeder league, but this is only viable if the North Juniors (and possibly the north of the Tay clubs), also join the pyramid as separate HFL feeder leagues. They each cover very separate regions, and the significant travelling distances would kill off any suggested merger between the NRJFA and the NCL as an integrated Tier 6 league.. It would also be unnecessary, as a play-off system would be used, as in the Lowland area.. As Marten correctly states "in reality this would mean that for a while, nothing much will change." Except perhaps if Banks O'Dee seek to join the HFL in 2020/21, as has been suggested ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert James Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 6 hours ago, craigkillie said: The debate about the quality is completely irrelevant. The NCL want to be part of the pyramid and should be afforded that opportunity. If they don't prove to be good enough to get promoted then so be it. Golspie have only won that league twice in the last 10 seasons, so using their results is not really a brilliant barometer. Agreed. Five different clubs, Thurso, Halkirk, Golspie ,Invergordon and Orkney have been NCL champions since 2012. It should be noted that Fort William, Wick Academy and Brora Rangers are ex-NCL/NCA clubs. now playing in the HFL Whilst Fort has struggled, the other 2 current HFL clubs have not. Also, it is rumoured that NCL club St Duthus (Tain) is ambitious to progress. The Highlands and Islands should not be excluded from any future northern pyramid at Tier 6, if/when one is created. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 9 hours ago, Cameron Wilson said: All the more reason for the NCL to get Incorporated, to make it stick out and be the THE league for that part of the country. Voluntary promotion only though. If Golspie don't get floodlights over the next year no NCL clubs will be in a position to be promoted to the HL and that's not likely to change any time soon. The HL would really need to split into two tiers to form the basis for a viable tier 6 setup comparable to the EoS that non-licensed clubs can apply to join. As the things stand it would be like making the Borders amateur league a feeder to the LL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 This being a busy I thread I wonder if anyone has any suspicions ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Better to contact the mods I would have thought. They might have access to the ip address used if you want to pursue this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 That’s not on Al. We all have our opinions n enjoy a wind-up from time to time but there no excuse for trying to do this... So anyway, wtf is your password?! Seriously though, the mods might be able to see who has logged in to their own account with the same IP so worth finding out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Thanks for the support chaps. Sure the boness mod will maybe pick up on this. Cant remember his alias.Would seriously hope it's not an eos stalker [emoji57][emoji23][emoji106] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanburn Dave Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Ex-Boness mod . Used to be Tynieness but now goes by Tynierose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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