New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Burnie_man]

10 hours ago, Wee Fifer said:

He’s a former East Fife player and I have a friend on the board, remember  

Is that the cover story, least you've put a bit of thought into it this time  

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, Wee Fifer said:

I’m far too long in the tooth to be involved in childish arguments, remember 

[Hertz1874]

Heard today there may/will be a u-turn from the SFA in regards to Bonnyrigg Rose.

They've gone ahead and signed boys in respect of remaining in the EOSFL where they may have strengthened further.

Hopefully all cleared up soon.

[San Starko Rover]

Heard today there may/will be a u-turn from the SFA in regards to Bonnyrigg Rose.
They've gone ahead and signed boys in respect of remaining in the EOSFL where they may have strengthened further.
Hopefully all cleared up soon.

Let’s just hope the decision is made soon so both WW and BR know where they are playing next season. I think BR should go up personally as the SFA made a poor decision but WW have been left in a shocking position by all this not knowing if they’re relegated or not. Whatever the final outcome it’s certainly not WWs fault.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Hertz1874 said:

....They've gone ahead and signed boys in respect of remaining in the EOSFL where they may have strengthened further....

Is there really going to be much of a gap in quality next season between most of the EoS premier and most of the LL? Cup games this past season suggest there won't be. Hope common sense has prevailed now that they have functioning floodlights..

Edited June 4, 2019 by LongTimeLurker

[rockson]

21 hours ago, G4Mac said:

Players don't always go where the cash is gents.

Gents?

Were they all male?

[Guest]

Again, cup games can't be used as a point of reference. They are one off games and can't be used to draw a comparison against an entire league season.....some eos Premier teams will undoubtedly hold their own in the LL and progress into the top end of the league, but to suggest most are better than most of the LL isnt accurate for me. The difference between the top West junior league/EOS Premier and the LL is the same size gap between the HL/LL and Spfl2. We think the gap isnt that big but in reality, for most who make the step up, it is far greater than they think it will be.

[Guest]

Gents?

Were they all male?

Really? Are we going there? Are you out searching for something to be offended by? I can safely assume since neither original poster took umbrage they were male. Change it to people or persons or folks if you would like.

 

[Guest]

Sorry I really meant that until the teams play in the same league, against the same opposition it is pointless to try and draw any comparisons. The points totals are gathered playing in different leagues against different opposition. Until teams get into the LL and have a campaign there we have to wait and see.

 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

18 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Again, cup games can't be used as a point of reference. They are one off games and can't be used to draw a comparison against an entire league season.....some eos Premier teams will undoubtedly hold their own in the LL and progress into the top end of the league, but to suggest most are better than most of the LL isnt accurate for me. The difference between the top West junior league/EOS Premier and the LL is the same size gap between the HL/LL and Spfl2. We think the gap isnt that big but in reality, for most who make the step up, it is far greater than they think it will be.

A lot of people had Kelty as the favourites for the Lowland League title based on their run of form. East Super League Champion then EoS Champion. They should walk the Lowland League as there isn't enough quality in it. They finished 3rd and closer to 4th & 5th place than the Champions or runners up.

Bonnyrigg would enter the Lowland League with a similar track record.

Kelty Hearts

2016-17: East Super League Champion    78pts / 90pts    87%
2017-18:  EoS Champion                                    69pts / 72pts    96%
2018-19: 3rd in the Lowland League           54pts / 84pts    64%
            
Bonnyrigg Rose          
2017-18:    East Super League Champion    69pts / 90pts    77%
2018-19:    EoS Conference B Champion    67pts / 72pts    93%

It's a jump up from what they're used to. The Lowland League has been around for 6+ years now. It's been attracting some of the best players outwith the SPFL. Some of the clubs might not win any attendance records, but they can win games on the field.

[lowenan]

Maybe WW can be compared to a team as well? Surely not Hawick? Maybe Preston.

[Burnie_man]

Bonnyrigg will be competitive right from the off (if they are promoted) and should easily be a top 6 team.

I base that on seeing BSC, East Stirling, Stirling Uni and Dalbeattie this season, as well as Bonnyrigg a few times. OK not much to judge things on, but it gives a fair indication.

[Guest]

A lot of people had Kelty as the favourites for the Lowland League title based on their run of form. East Super League Champion then EoS Champion. They should walk the Lowland League as there isn't enough quality in it. They finished 3rd and closer to 4th & 5th place than the Champions or runners up.
Bonnyrigg would enter the Lowland League with a similar track record.
Kelty Hearts
2016-17: East Super League Champion    78pts / 90pts    87%
2017-18:  EoS Champion                                    69pts / 72pts    96%
2018-19: 3rd in the Lowland League           54pts / 84pts    64%
            
Bonnyrigg Rose          
2017-18:    East Super League Champion    69pts / 90pts    77%
2018-19:    EoS Conference B Champion    67pts / 72pts    93%
It's a jump up from what they're used to. The Lowland League has been around for 6+ years now. It's been attracting some of the best players outwith the SPFL. Some of the clubs might not win any attendance records, but they can win games on the field.

The jump in standard is one aspect certainly, as you say the LL has some of the best players outwith the spfl. However from my experiences coaching in the LL (having played junior for 10 years) is there is a whole new technical, tactical and game management aspect that I never thought existed this far down the pyramid. The professionalism in a teams set up, tactics and change in playing style to suit the opposition was incredible. That was the difference for me.

[Cowden Cowboy]

The jump in standard is one aspect certainly, as you say the LL has some of the best players outwith the spfl. However from my experiences coaching in the LL (having played junior for 10 years) is there is a whole new technical, tactical and game management aspect that I never thought existed this far down the pyramid. The professionalism in a teams set up, tactics and change in playing style to suit the opposition was incredible. That was the difference for me.

Partly as a consequence of licensing requirements - they do help drive a more structured, professional approach overall

[Marten]

42 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

Again, cup games can't be used as a point of reference. They are one off games and can't be used to draw a comparison against an entire league season.....some eos Premier teams will undoubtedly hold their own in the LL and progress into the top end of the league, but to suggest most are better than most of the LL isnt accurate for me. The difference between the top West junior league/EOS Premier and the LL is the same size gap between the HL/LL and Spfl2. We think the gap isnt that big but in reality, for most who make the step up, it is far greater than they think it will be.

As I'm originally from The Netherlands, I'm still following football there closely. There is a good example from over there. For years, clubs in the 3rd tier have won the vast majority of cup games against clubs in the 2nd tier, but there never was a proper pyramid (and there still isn't one really), so 3rd tier sides didn't move up and 2nd tier sides didn't move down. The top 3rd tier sides were seen as far superior to the bottom 2nd tier sides. When a promotion/relegation system was introduced, one team got relegated from the 2nd tier. Their squad also got weakened quite a bit with players leaving following the relegation. All "experts" agreed: they would struggle a lot in the 3rd tier and be lucky to even reach the top half of the table. In reality, they had a difficult start but once they got used to the different style of play, they became dominant and won the league.

It turned out that the 2nd tier sides don't struggle in the cup games due to the 3rd tier sides being superior, but due to them playing a completely different style which is hard to handle for one-off games while over the course of a season it's no problem to adapt to it. A similar thing can apply to the LL.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Bonnyrigg will be competitive right from the off (if they are promoted) and should easily be a top 6 team.

I base that on seeing BSC, East Stirling, Stirling Uni and Dalbeattie this season, as well as Bonnyrigg a few times. OK not much to judge things on, but it gives a fair indication.

They certainly should be with what they've got already. It's just the case if they had the full close season to plan and make additions they could of improved on that. By the sounds of things East Stirlingshire are spending and so are Kelty. Then you've got the unknown of how Berwick will handle the drop. Reigning champions East Kilbride and former champions Spartans. With BSC growing with 3rd and 2nd place finishes the last two years. There's 6 right there.

 

21 minutes ago, lowenan said:

Maybe WW can be compared to a team as well? Surely not Hawick? Maybe Preston.

I definitely wouldn't compare WW to Hawick given track records the last few decades. But WW did have an unusually bad year for themselves. Hearing them sign a number of players from Dalkeith, on the face it, doesn't suggest much of turnaround in fortunes either.

[Ginaro]

I'm thinking given the LL haven't come out and said anything concrete about the coming season, it's looking very likely that if Bonnyrigg get licensed on the 12th then the LL will swap them with WW.

[newcastle broon]

8 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

I'm thinking given the LL haven't come out and said anything concrete about the coming season, it's looking very likely that if Bonnyrigg get licensed on the 12th then the LL will swap them with WW.

I have absolutely no doubt that's whats going to happen. Canny mind what thread I said it on.

I would've accepted relegation had it been confirmed at the end of last season based on the Berwick scenario alone but to have us hanging on and no statements made from anywhere after the season end and up till now it has turned into being something absolutely shambolic.

 

[Hertz1874]

6 hours ago, leftbehind said:

Insider information?? . Nothing on their web site about new signings but its early yet for these kind of announcements from NDP.They will probably give out a raft of announcements about signings, pre-season friendlies and their AGM all at once.  Early days.

Not inside info as such, more a respectable figure who's well known and now not involved in football. Has been asked to manage by various clubs but not willing to come out "retirement".

[LongTimeLurker]

10 hours ago, Marten said:

...When a promotion/relegation system was introduced, one team got relegated from the 2nd tier. Their squad also got weakened quite a bit with players leaving following the relegation. All "experts" agreed: they would struggle a lot in the 3rd tier and be lucky to even reach the top half of the table. In reality, they had a difficult start but once they got used to the different style of play, they became dominant and won the league...

How did Hawick Royal Albert get on in the EoS last season? Even Preston weren't able to reach the new EoS premier. You are not comparing like with like because nothing as stringent as fully professional level licensing standards was being applied on LL entry and the wrong set of clubs got in if it were being done on any sort of rational basis. That doesn't mean that Bonnyrigg would be better than all LL clubs next season with a squad assembled with the EoS premier in mind given the presence of EK, Kelty, the Shire and Berwick who will all have large budgets to spend on players by the sounds of things, but there's still plenty of low hanging fruit waiting to be plucked by teams from below that want to progress.

Edited June 5, 2019 by LongTimeLurker