New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Kemlin Dan]

Just now, Ginaro said:

Have a read: https://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/EoSFL-Entry-Criteria-2018.docx

I'd say that given Syngenta will not be in the EOS Premier Division the board would surely be more lenient and allow them time to meet the requirements, like other clubs have been given.

Thats a fair point Ginaro but Little Kerse isn't owned by Syngenta so who works out the cost to get the Criteria, will certainly be interesting developments over coming months.

[calmac25]

Did you see that place we had to play a cup final at. Think it would be a shame if they didn't 

I see that Mids have been given £5k from the football partnership towards a stand so must be fairly well on in planning. D&G council are also looking at helping them with a new pavilion closer than their pitch too

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, Kemlin Dan said:

Most certainly my point Alan, do we want caged facilities and a 10 min walk for the toilet, I couldn't tell you the criteria for SOS vs EOS, Little Kerse isn't caged but going by criteria Little Kerse isnt close to making it.

HWU play in a 3G cage with a hike to the toilet, although they do have stands now.

[falkirktv]

7 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Have a read: https://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/EoSFL-Entry-Criteria-2018.docx

I'd say that given Syngenta will not be in the EOS Premier Division the board would surely be more lenient and allow them time to meet the requirements, like other clubs have been given.

Why? The rest of us have to spend on our grounds before we got in or to stay in. They should be no different, come back when you’ve got a suitable ground. Until then it should be thanks but no thanks

[lithgierose]

9 hours ago, Kemlin Dan said:

Most certainly my point Alan, do we want caged facilities and a 10 min walk for the toilet, I couldn't tell you the criteria for SOS vs EOS, Little Kerse isn't caged but going by criteria Little Kerse isnt close to making it.

No ten minute walk to toilets at ormiston.when someone asked where the toilets were.they were told,plenty trees round the park.

[Auld Heid]

1 hour ago, falkirktv said:

Why? The rest of us have to spend on our grounds before we got in or to stay in. They should be no different, come back when you’ve got a suitable ground. Until then it should be thanks but no thanks

Correct - the minimum criteria should be that an application for a licence has at least been made.   17 Clubs have embraced that and are working towards achieving a licence and indoing so will ensure promotion and relegation can take place. 

Unlicenced clubs should not be a barrier to progression.

[AlanCamelonfan]

9 hours ago, Kemlin Dan said:

Thats a fair point Ginaro but Little Kerse isn't owned by Syngenta so who works out the cost to get the Criteria, will certainly be interesting developments over coming months.

It's not that far away Walk. Most places the nearest toilet is at other side of stadium. It's a lot better than Inverkeithing. Lk are looking to build a stand etc. Should be given a chance. It would be another local team 

[Burnie_man]

21 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Correct - the minimum criteria should be that an application for a licence has at least been made.   17 Clubs have embraced that and are working towards achieving a licence and indoing so will ensure promotion and relegation can take place. 

Unlicenced clubs should not be a barrier to progression.

So you're saying that in order to join the EoS (or SoS), you need to have a Licence or be applying for one?   I think you have just created a massive barrier to progress.

[falkirktv]

54 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

So you're saying that in order to join the EoS (or SoS), you need to have a Licence or be applying for one?   I think you have just created a massive barrier to progress.

No but you should have a ground that complies to eosl rules as just now there are no plans to do the work in the next few years to make it compliant, the juniors knocked back pennies at same venue earlier in year, same reasons

Edited March 1, 2019 by falkirktv

[Burnie_man]

No but you should have a ground that complies to eosl rules as just now they’re is no plans to do the work in the next few years to make it compliant, the juniors knocked back pennies at same venue earlier in year, same reasons

Agree, you need to comply with current league requirements. Surprised, they aren't too taxing.

[falkirktv]

Little kerse for all it’s a great facility is miles away from the criteria. 

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, falkirktv said:

Little kerse for all it’s a great facility is miles away from the criteria. 

Aren't Bo'ness supposed to be moving there whilst Newtown has it's 3g installed?

[Auld Heid]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

So you're saying that in order to join the EoS (or SoS), you need to have a Licence or be applying for one?   I think you have just created a massive barrier to progress.

How would it be a barrier to progress?

Surely if a licence is required to progress from EoS to LL then not having one is a barrier in itself.  17 Clubs working towards and Clubs already have licences in place within the EoS (fantastic). 

An unlicensed champion couldn't be promoted to LL (my understanding) so surely that's a barrier. 

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, falkirktv said:

Little kerse for all it’s a great facility is miles away from the criteria. 

I recall that 4 or 5 years ago, East Stirling were intending to move to Little Kerse , and redeveloping the facility in a partnership deal. What went wrong ?

[Burnie_man]

Just now, Auld Heid said:

How would it be a barrier to progress?

Surely if a licence is required to progress from EoS to LL then not having one is a barrier in itself.  17 Clubs working towards and Clubs already have licences in place within the EoS (fantastic). 

An unlicensed champion couldn't be promoted to LL (my understanding) so surely that's a barrier. 

It discourages clubs from joining the league in the first place (which eventually will be at a low level such as tier 8 or 9), and causes problems for clubs who are already members but for various reasons cannot get Licenced.

Tier 5 is the right level for compulsory Licencing, tier 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 isn't.  Clubs in tier 6 (EoS Premier) who are the ones challenging for promotion to LL will naturally move towards Licencing as they know without one they cannot go up, and they will also want Scottish Cup participation every season.  Your example of 17 clubs is a perfect example of this, less than half are realistic challengers for a LL place anytime soon, but all clubs likely to qualify for the play-off are applying for a Licence - no compulsion required.

The simple solution to avoid any potential "log jam" of an unlicenced club finishing in a promotion spot (which moving forward will become a rare occurrence in the EoS) is that the "prize" bumps down to the next eligible club. I think that will come.

[Auld Heid]

56 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It discourages clubs from joining the league in the first place (which eventually will be at a low level such as tier 8 or 9), and causes problems for clubs who are already members but for various reasons cannot get Licenced.

Tier 5 is the right level for compulsory Licencing, tier 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 isn't.  Clubs in tier 6 (EoS Premier) who are the ones challenging for promotion to LL will naturally move towards Licencing as they know without one they cannot go up, and they will also want Scottish Cup participation every season.  Your example of 17 clubs is a perfect example of this, less than half are realistic challengers for a LL place anytime soon, but all clubs likely to qualify for the play-off are applying for a Licence - no compulsion required.

The simple solution to avoid any potential "log jam" of an unlicenced club finishing in a promotion spot (which moving forward will become a rare occurrence in the EoS) is that the "prize" bumps down to the next eligible club. I think that will come.

Fair points - I interpret it differently at present lower levels don't exist - albeit tier 7 will next season.  So to progress seemlessly from Tier 6 to 5 a licence is required - I see the 17 applicants showing that ambition/goal. 

Similarly whilst I agree if you go down tiers it is less of a requirement it should still be a goal/requirement to progression.

Personally I don't agree with the last point as that takes away merit based progression.  Licensing is also a good way of sorting out teams who are committed to progression and the ones who are happy to swim in bigger ponds without the associated efforts off the park.

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

Correct - the minimum criteria should be that an application for a licence has at least been made.   17 Clubs have embraced that and are working towards achieving a licence and indoing so will ensure promotion and relegation can take place. 

Unlicenced clubs should not be a barrier to progression.

Are you saying every club in the Championship needs to have Premiership ground standards? Otherwise it would be a barrier to progress.

And if everyone in the Championship has to have it, then surely everyone in L1 has to have it, otherwise it would be a barrier to progress.

And if everyone in L1 has to have it...

You have to draw lines in some places. Between tiers 5 and 6 makes a lot of sense. There are 39 clubs in the EoS and most of them don't have a realistic prospect of promotion in the near future, so there's no need for them to meet tier 5 conditions. 

[falkirktv]

54 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Are you saying every club in the Championship needs to have Premiership ground standards? Otherwise it would be a barrier to progress.

And if everyone in the Championship has to have it, then surely everyone in L1 has to have it, otherwise it would be a barrier to progress.

And if everyone in L1 has to have it...

You have to draw lines in some places. Between tiers 5 and 6 makes a lot of sense. There are 39 clubs in the EoS and most of them don't have a realistic prospect of promotion in the near future, so there's no need for them to meet tier 5 conditions. 

no but they should meet EOSL criteria

[Auld Heid]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

Are you saying every club in the Championship needs to have Premiership ground standards? Otherwise it would be a barrier to progress.

And if everyone in the Championship has to have it, then surely everyone in L1 has to have it, otherwise it would be a barrier to progress.

And if everyone in L1 has to have it...

You have to draw lines in some places. Between tiers 5 and 6 makes a lot of sense. There are 39 clubs in the EoS and most of them don't have a realistic prospect of promotion in the near future, so there's no need for them to meet tier 5 conditions. 

Surely it's common sense if you have the ambition to progress then you should meet the requirements.

This season was a transition from junior to senior, 17 clubs looked towards 2019/20 and beyond tier 6.  Next season the 39 will seperate into 2 divisions - but not every club has been pragmatic in approach.

I fully accept not every team will have realistic chances of promotion from tier 6 to 5 - but they will be in a position to move and that's half the battle in my eyes of a working pyramid. 

[parsforlife]

Surely it's common sense if you have the ambition to progress then you should meet the requirements.

This season was a transition from junior to senior, 17 clubs looked towards 2019/20 and beyond tier 6.  Next season the 39 will seperate into 2 divisions - but not every club has been pragmatic in approach.

I fully accept not every team will have realistic chances of promotion from tier 6 to 5 - but they will be in a position to move and that's half the battle in my eyes of a working pyramid. 

 

A working pyramid requires increasing off-field standards to match increasing playing standards as we go up the tiers.

 

This should be a stepped process that means clubs can manage the transitions they are likely to go through. This IMO is already in place tiers 1-5.

 

As we have seen recently top-end tier 6 clubs are pushing themselves off-field to bridge the gap and be ready to meet tier 5 standards, however tweedmouth, inverkiething etc are not pushing to join tier 5 with their playing standards, it would therefore be unreasonable to expect them to pushing to meet tier 5 off-field standards.