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New clubs in the East of Scotland


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2 minutes ago, stulch said:
7 hours ago, parsforlife said:
Bonnyrigg scenario only works if they were just waiting on being signed off,  Working on a license is what every non-licenced club should be doing(and indeed i believe its an EoS league rule)  

I don't think it's an EoS rule. I think they'd encourage teams but they know its not necessarily for every club, at least for some clubs in the short term.

I believe it is designed for every club to work towards it,  even if that's at a very slow pace,   It's not to say clubs must achieve it short term.  

IMO licensing is for every club,   I'd like lower levels of licensing to be introduced for tier 6 downward,  but it will be positive if committees are looking at where their club is at currently and where they can improve,  it helps to use licensing criteria as a judgement of that.

Even the very small things add up.

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I believe it is designed for every club to work towards it,  even if that's at a very slow pace,   It's not to say clubs must achieve it short term.  
IMO licensing is for every club,   I'd like lower levels of licensing to be introduced for tier 6 downward,  but it will be positive if committees are looking at where their club is at currently and where they can improve,  it helps to use licensing criteria as a judgement of that.
Even the very small things add up.
Don't get me wrong, I think its a good thing (working towards a licence) but I'm pretty sure it isn't an EoS rule that every club must get a licence or work towards it. They have standards for joining the EoS but that's different to the SFA licence and previously the EoS have given some new clubs a season to get up to their EoS requirements. For instance for enclosing the ground with a fence.

Separately, there probably should be different grading requirements for depending on what tier you're in. However, I don't think the EoS own entry levels are enormously high.
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2 minutes ago, stulch said:

Don't get me wrong, I think its a good thing (working towards a licence) but I'm pretty sure it isn't an EoS rule that every club must get a licence or work towards it. They have standards for joining the EoS but that's different to the SFA licence and previously the EoS have given some new clubs a season to get up to their EoS requirements. For instance for enclosing the ground with a fence.

Separately, there probably should be different grading requirements for depending on what tier you're in. However, I don't think the EoS own entry levels are enormously high.

I'm working off a loose memory of someone quoting the rule a while back so there's a good chance I'm wrong.  But from that memory it isn't a case of forcing clubs into getting a license,  that is very tough for alot,  more a case of if your doing off field work, even if its a small thing then please have a look at the licensing manual and try and comply.

For example Crossgates primrose replaced their goalnets a season or so ago,  going with the box style efforts,  that move is certainly working towards a license,   its not cover or floodlights or a whole host of things expensive and time consuming,  but it is progression.

 

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You would like to think that even clubs at the bottom are ambitious,to some point, so they'd naturally progress and improve as they go along. Somewhere down the line those with ambition and money and assistance will surely rise. Biggest problem imo is getting enough volunteers when the current old guys can't do it any longer.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
On 04/11/2021 at 19:15, HibeeJibee said:

I've already heard of 3 amateur and youth clubs apparently interested - from Fife, Lothians, and Borders - though intriguingly all are different from those being mentioned here 😂!

However when it comes to amateur clubs you'll always find several times as many rumoured than get formally involved; a couple of times as many getting formally involved than ultimately apply; and not every club which applies might meet the criteria or obtain the necessary grace or waivers. You also have to remember how little amateur football has been played for almost 2yrs... indeed the Border Amateurs didn't play at any point last season... so there's going to be more fluidity, and for now lots of clubs will just be focusing on playing regularly again. Equally there may be a few who have taken stock and started considering new possibilities.

With the migration from the juniors having ended I think you have to accept that the days of a couple of dozen, a dozen or even half-a-dozen clubs joining in a single swoop are probably over. It will likely revert to a smaller number of amateur and youth clubs each year. It'd be interesting to chart how many joined the EOS and East Juniors each year over recent decades and from where. Over that period most - though by no means all - clubs getting as far as formally applying were successful.
 

They don't have floodlights although I think electrical trunking for them was put in some years ago; that aside the ground would be there or thereabout. It would handsomely meet EOS criteria certainly. They have gone off like a rocket in Border Amateur top division this season: 100% record and +16 GD after 6 games. Interestingly when they joined EOS back in 2011, a major reason was that they'd won the Border Amateurs (unbeaten) - and wanted to do more than just try to tread water. No idea what they'd be thinking now though. They've been up-n-down since quitting EOS in 2016.
 

Unaware of anybody using Saughton at adult mens level.

Any more on this?

On 04/11/2021 at 22:13, zenon said:

Balgonie Scotia, Kinross Colts and Tollcross Thistle could be other possibilities. All decent set ups.

or on these?

Pure guess but presume that it is too early for KSQ (Kirkliston South Queensferry) who have expressed interest in stepping up some day.

If Hibeejibee is onto something then maybe from the Borders it could be Langlee Amateurs. They ground share with Gala Fairydean Rovers so facilities would be no problem. If there's one from the Edinburgh/Lothian Amateurs maybe Tollcross Thistle (if they were to use the former LTHV ground). In Fife there's the old favourite for speculation i.e. Cupar Hearts but Leven United's set-up might be OK already?

The deadline for applications is the end of March so fair game to see if there's any news yet!

 

Edited by Dev
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 04/11/2021 at 14:48, Burnieman said:

Duns are the obvious ones from the Border Ams, former EoS members, have got their ground upto licence standard I believe, and with the leagues reverting to P-1-2-3 from next season it may be the right time for them to re-join if they can get a competitive team together.

Yes Duns are the obvious choice for an additional border club in the EoSL., 

Outsiders could be Selkirk Vics who have strengthened in recent years, and could be looking to fill the void left when Selkirk FC folded.

Interestingly Eyemouth United are not competing in the Border League this season, but there is an amateur club : Eyemouth United Amateurs FC ,who are keeping football alive in the town (as a possible successor/phoenix club ?).

 

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On 04/11/2021 at 19:15, HibeeJibee said:

I've already heard of 3 amateur and youth clubs apparently interested - from Fife, Lothians, and Borders - though intriguingly all are different from those being mentioned here 😂!

However when it comes to amateur clubs you'll always find several times as many rumoured than get formally involved; a couple of times as many getting formally involved than ultimately apply; and not every club which applies might meet the criteria or obtain the necessary grace or waivers. You also have to remember how little amateur football has been played for almost 2yrs... indeed the Border Amateurs didn't play at any point last season... so there's going to be more fluidity, and for now lots of clubs will just be focusing on playing regularly again. Equally there may be a few who have taken stock and started considering new possibilities.

With the migration from the juniors having ended I think you have to accept that the days of a couple of dozen, a dozen or even half-a-dozen clubs joining in a single swoop are probably over. It will likely revert to a smaller number of amateur and youth clubs each year. It'd be interesting to chart how many joined the EOS and East Juniors each year over recent decades and from where. Over that period most - though by no means all - clubs getting as far as formally applying were successful.
 

They don't have floodlights although I think electrical trunking for them was put in some years ago; that aside the ground would be there or thereabout. It would handsomely meet EOS criteria certainly. They have gone off like a rocket in Border Amateur top division this season: 100% record and +16 GD after 6 games. Interestingly when they joined EOS back in 2011, a major reason was that they'd won the Border Amateurs (unbeaten) - and wanted to do more than just try to tread water. No idea what they'd be thinking now though. They've been up-n-down since quitting EOS in 2016.
 

Unaware of anybody using Saughton at adult mens level.

Any current rumours about possible new clubs HibeeJibee?

After the influx of the Juniors things might be settling down to just the occasional new entry from now on?

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On 21/04/2017 at 16:24, Moses McNeil said:

Heard from a 100% reliable source that Kelty Hearts have decided to join the pyramid and see how far they can go. Obviously they will be starting at the bottom and are expected to be playing in the East of Scotland League from next season while they go through the licencing process.

 

This was the very first comment on this thread way back in 2017.

Kelty Hearts are now just a maximum 7 points, from 6 games, away from promotion to SPL Div.1. Some story!

Edited by Dev
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31 minutes ago, Dev said:

This was the very first comment on this thread way back in 2017.

Kelty Hearts are now just a maximum 7 points, from 6 games, away from promotion to SPL Div.1. Some story!

I moved to Scotland in the summer of 2017 and started following especially non-league straight away. That's been quite some moment to get into it... 😂

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6 hours ago, Dev said:

After the influx of the Juniors things might be settling down to just the occasional new entry from now on?

I'd think so... amateurs and occasional youth sides. There is nobody left at senior or junior level who would be eligible - except for the likes of Harthill and Tayport who both consciously decided only 1 year ago where they wanted to play. If you look back over the past 15 years there has been a steady trickle of amateur and youth sides into EOSL, so you'd hope that sort of tempo would be resumed:

2008     University of Stirling
2009
2010     Berwick Rangers EOS

2011     Duns
2012     Burntisland Shipyard
2013     Hibernian EOS

2014
2015
2016     Tweedmouth Rangers
2017
2018     Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts
2019
2020     Edinburgh South
2021     Edinburgh College


During that time relatively few clubs have applied but been rejected - Links United and Hutchison Vale (who've now merged with Lothian Thistle) in 2008, Christian Salvesons a couple of years later, Selkirk EOS in 2014 (main club now defunct), Glenrothes Strollers and Syngenta (who've now joined) in 2019. There have been a few others which didn't make it to a vote as they failed to meet the ground criteria too much even for waivers.

Some others have effectively entered via merger e.g. Leith Athletic with Edinburgh Athletic, and Tynecastle with Tollcross United.

In decades gone by a primary source of new clubs was the city of Edinburgh but of course it's quite strongly represented now. Plus most of the compliant grounds are already used by 2 teams (Edinburgh City/Leith; Spartans/LTHV; Boroughmuir RFC/Tynecastle; Heriot-Watt Uni/Edinburgh College; while Edinburgh Uni is grass and used fairly intensively due to midweek university competitions). It's unusual for towns to carry more than 1 senior club; apart from Bo'ness. There aren't many institutions that spring to mind. So you'd think the likliest source may be towns currently unrepresented - like Duns, Burntisland, Tweedmouth and Inverkeithing were.

Duns is an interesting case - they're top of Border Amateur A Division, unbeaten all season and only 1 draw: exactly the circumstances that saw them seek a "new challenge" 11yrs ago. Hopefully they'll return someday.

Edited by HibeeJibee
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8 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Duns is an interesting case - they're top of Border Amateur A Division, unbeaten all season and only 1 draw: exactly the circumstances that saw them seek a "new challenge" 11yrs ago.

Perhaps the West Lothian-dominated Third Division won't be as appealing to them as a regionwide or south division? 

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57 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Perhaps the West Lothian-dominated Third Division won't be as appealing to them as a regionwide or south division? 

Even if so, you can fast forward to next year or year after and expect that many of them will have gone up or be going up with equally likes of Tweedmouth, Craigroyston, Ormiston, Hawick and Peebles having gone down or be going down (basing this hypothetical on current tables). It won't retain that complexion for long.

Talking about institutions - what are football facilities like at St Andrews and Napier universities? Both field BUCS teams. (Queen's Margarets don't).

Edited by HibeeJibee
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16 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Even if so, you can fast forward to next year or year after and expect that many of them will have gone up or be going up with equally likes of Tweedmouth, Craigroyston, Ormiston, Hawick and Peebles having gone down or be going down (basing this hypothetical on current tables). It won't retain that complexion for long.

Yeah, was just thinking waiting a year might be better until it sorts itself out. On that subject, is the Second Division expected to go to 16 teams in 2023-24 after being at 18/19 next season? 

Edited by Ginaro
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2 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

During that time relatively few clubs have applied but been rejected - Links United and Hutchison Vale (who've now merged with Lothian Thistle) in 2008, Christian Salvesons a couple of years later, Selkirk EOS in 2014 (main club now defunct), Glenrothes Strollers and Syngenta (who've now joined) in 2019. There have been a few others which didn't make it to a vote as they failed to meet the ground criteria too much even for waivers.
 

Glenrothes Strollers recently folded.

https://kingdomoffifeafa.pitchero.com/glenrothes-strollers-afc-fife-star-afc-69667

Edited by zenon
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Letham was the strangest case of an applicant being rejected in recent times. They landed on their feet OK, but if concerns over their ground rather than distance from the Lothians was the reason for the knock back, successful applicants are likely to be few and far between from now on.

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