New clubs in the East of Scotland

[LongTimeLurker]

19 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

The EOS were absolutely right to not be comfortable with the SJFA having any role or influence under their remit. Why would anyone want to welcome a group onboard who had a long track record of self-importance, self-serving and backwards-thinking who combined with their subsidiary couldn’t even so much as muster up a full fixture list??

...so given you are far from alone on holding those sorts of sentiments how likely do you think it is that the EoS will be bending over backwards in early 2021 to allow the ten incoming clubs from the east region south to retain SJFA membership and continue their SJC participation? My assessment would be somewhere between highly unlikely and exceedingly slim and was frankly astonished by some of what was being posted on that subject in the complete absence of any solid evidence.

Edited May 4, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Marten]

7 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...so given you are far from alone on holding those sorts of sentiments how likely do you think it is that the EoS will be bending over backwards in early 2021 to allow the ten incoming clubs from the east region south to retain SJFA membership and continue their SJC participation? My assessment would be somewhere between highly unlikely and exceedingly slim and was frankly astonished by some of what was being posted on that subject in the complete absence of any solid evidence.

Honestly... How many more times do people need to point out to you that it's the SJFA, and the SJFA alone, who decides if these clubs can stay members & participate in the SJC if they so want? It's perfectly allowed within EoS rules.

[Ginaro]

19 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...so given you are far from alone on holding those sorts of sentiments how likely do you think it is that the EoS will be bending over backwards in early 2021 to allow the ten incoming clubs from the east region south to retain SJFA membership and continue their SJC participation? My assessment would be somewhere between highly unlikely and exceedingly slim and was frankly astonished by some of what was being posted on that subject in the complete absence of any solid evidence.

What evidence do you have to suggest that the EOS can prevent the SJFA from amending their constitution?

Why do you think that the EOS won't just treat the Junior Cup like the Fife Cup and leave it up to the SJFA to schedule in midweek, on a free week [given there would be 11 clubs in tier 8], or on a Saturday if both (Junior) teams agree to move a league game to midweek?

[8MileBU]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...so given you are far from alone on holding those sorts of sentiments how likely do you think it is that the EoS will be bending over backwards in early 2021 to allow the ten incoming clubs from the east region south to retain SJFA membership and continue their SJC participation? My assessment would be somewhere between highly unlikely and exceedingly slim and was frankly astonished by some of what was being posted on that subject in the complete absence of any solid evidence.

The EoS won’t give a monkeys mate. They incoming clubs will be told they can retain SJFA membership and play in the SJC if they want as long as they can schedule games around their EoS commitments.

[LongTimeLurker]

Why do that now though when they didn't have to do anything to facilitate that when all the other former east region clubs joined and where do you find up to six free Saturday fixture dates without completely disrupting their EoS comitments? 

Edited May 5, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[AlanCamelonfan]

5 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Why do that now though when they didn't have to do anything to facilitate that when all the other former east region clubs joined and where do you find up to six free Saturday fixture dates without completely disrupting their EoS comitments? 

Would have to be played midweek obviously 

[LongTimeLurker]

Is that even possible in logistical terms though when a large percentage of clubs entering won't have floodlights and travel up to the north region is potentially involved?

[newcastle broon]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Is that even possible in logistical terms though when a large percentage of clubs entering won't have floodlights and travel up to the north region is potentially involved?

Ye keep looking for faults but are failing miserably

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, andrew21 said:

Bloody hell the SJFA/junior cup happy clappers are out in force on this thread.

Not quite. It's basically calling out LTL for constantly framing it as the EoS preventing clubs from staying in the SJFA. When it's the SJFA doing that.

Harthill Royal have the option to stay in the SJFA if they wish. Even though the WoSFL will have a crowded fixture list with the league, WoS Cup, SCC, and possibly a West equivalent of the Alex Jack/Alba Cup. Yet all the other East Region juniors making the move to the EoSFL will lose SJFA membership by default of the SJFA's own rules.

[LongTimeLurker]

45 minutes ago, andrew21 said:

Bloody hell the SJFA/junior cup happy clappers are out in force on this thread.

The weird thing is that it's actually many of the hardcore pyramidistas that are doing this who were previously very anti-SJFA. I have been assuming this is all hypothetical. Is there any concrete info available that any of the ten newly entering clubs from the east region south have been able to retain SJFA membership and will participate in the SJC next season? If not, hopefully they'll finally give this a rest now.

Edited May 5, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[John S]

If that's the case the 'Scottish' will no longer be a national trophy. IMO it should become a cup for all tier 5 clubs in the pyramid and below (soon to be all former Junior clubs) or retired. To continue it with only certain regions involved devalues a once great trophy.

The EoS won’t give a monkeys mate. They incoming clubs will be told they can retain SJFA membership and play in the SJC if they want as long as they can schedule games around their EoS commitments.

[LongTimeLurker]

16 minutes ago, John S said:

If that's the case the 'Scottish' will no longer be a national trophy. IMO it should become a cup for all tier 5 clubs in the pyramid and below...

If it becomes that there's no obvious reason why you would even need an SJFA. The SFA could organise it like the FA do with the FA Trophy and FA Vase down south. In practical terms given the large number of Saturday fixture dates required in the absence of universal floodlight provision it's a case of either the South Challenge Cup or the Scottish Junior Cup as the flagship cup tournament. Doing both is very difficult logistically when leagues also have 30+ league fixtures to fit in along with extra league specific and/or local regional FA cup competitions of their own. As far as I am aware there has been no indication that the EoS plan to stop having all its clubs without exception participate in the South Challenge Cup next season.

Edited May 5, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Gazzah]

Not quite. It's basically calling out LTL for constantly framing it as the EoS preventing clubs from staying in the SJFA. When it's the SJFA doing that.
Harthill Royal have the option to stay in the SJFA if they wish. Even though the WoSFL will have a crowded fixture list with the league, WoS Cup, SCC, and possibly a West equivalent of the Alex Jack/Alba Cup. Yet all the other East Region juniors making the move to the EoSFL will lose SJFA membership by default of the SJFA's own rules.

Every team moving to East of Scotland or West of Scotland should lose their Junior membership. It’s laughable that it was even mooted in the first place for teams still to be able to enter the Scottish junior cup.

[FairWeatherFan]

58 minutes ago, Gazzah said:

Every team moving to East of Scotland or West of Scotland should lose their Junior membership. It’s laughable that it was even mooted in the first place for teams still to be able to enter the Scottish junior cup. 

Whole thing is academic due to the previous SJFA administration's parting gift of only opening up the membership rules very narrowly. 

 

[8MileBU]

6 hours ago, John S said:

If that's the case the 'Scottish' will no longer be a national trophy. IMO it should become a cup for all tier 5 clubs in the pyramid and below (soon to be all former Junior clubs) or retired. To continue it with only certain regions involved devalues a once great trophy.

Something’s got lost in translation here I think John. Not sure anything’s been said suggesting “only certain regions” would be involved...? 

The Scottish Junior Cup would still be a national trophy, open to all clubs who have retained or choose to obtain (unlikely) SJFA membership and wish to compete for it regardless of whether they now sit in the EoS, WoS, SoS etc. 

IF only certain regions are involved, then that’s solely down to which clubs have retained SJFA membership and have expressed an interest in competing for the Junior Cup.

Edited May 5, 2021 by 8MileBU

[John S]

I not sure if something has got lost in translation here? [emoji848] 
The Scottish Junior Cup would still be a national trophy, open to all clubs who have retained/obtained SJFA membership and wish to compete for it regardless of whether they now sit in the EoS, WoS etc.

Open it out to the others as well, not just the former Juniors

[8MileBU]

1 minute ago, John S said:

10 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

I not sure if something has got lost in translation here?  
The Scottish Junior Cup would still be a national trophy, open to all clubs who have retained/obtained SJFA membership and wish to compete for it regardless of whether they now sit in the EoS, WoS etc.

Open it out to the others as well, not just the former Juniors

Right across the pyramid, from top to bottom?

[AlanCamelonfan]

Just now, John S said:

9 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

I not sure if something has got lost in translation here?  
The Scottish Junior Cup would still be a national trophy, open to all clubs who have retained/obtained SJFA membership and wish to compete for it regardless of whether they now sit in the EoS, WoS etc.

Open it out to the others as well, not just the former Juniors

It's only the grade enthusiasts that want to keep it. We have the south challenge cup I dont see the huge clammour for highland league teams and north juniors who never went far. Ok could say tayside but it's time to move on

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

I not sure if something has got lost in translation here?  

The Scottish Junior Cup would still be a national trophy, open to all clubs who have retained/obtained SJFA membership and wish to compete for it regardless of whether they now sit in the EoS, WoS etc.

Under existing SJFA rules EoS clubs are not allowed to be members of the SJFA. Only North Region, East Region, and WoSFL are allowed.

If the SJFA is going to exist beyond 2021, which they seem to be plodding on with. Then they're going to have to update that rule since the East Region won't exist anymore.

[8MileBU]

13 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Why do that now though when they didn't have to do anything to facilitate that when all the other former east region clubs joined and where do you find up to six free Saturday fixture dates without completely disrupting their EoS comitments? 

I’m not sure why you’re asking me that. I was only answering your previous question about whether the EoS would bend over backwards to let the incoming clubs compete for the SJC - Of course they won’t, but nor would I expect them to stand in the way of any club wishing to do so provided they can ensure it’s feasible and won’t conflict with their league schedule. 

7 hours ago, andrew21 said:

Bloody hell the SJFA/junior cup happy clappers are out in force on this thread.

^^^ Mallo-lite

6 hours ago, John S said:

If that's the case the 'Scottish' will no longer be a national trophy. IMO it should become a cup for all tier 5 clubs in the pyramid and below (soon to be all former Junior clubs) or retired. To continue it with only certain regions involved devalues a once great trophy.

A once great trophy indeed, and historically always will be.

However I think the devaluation just naturally goes hand-in-hand with the demise of the Juniors as a national grade. I personally can’t see any point in there still being an SJFA as a national body or a SJC given how little is left.