New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Marten]

35 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Sincerely hope the Stoneyburn signings will be playing EOSFL football next season. The club have yet to confirm that they submitted their application.

Considering there is nowhere else for them to go, I'd be very surprised if they haven't done so...

[superbigal]

Good to see progress on the northern front. Only problem I have, though, with Tayport viewing themselves as a Tayside club, is that Highland League sides will regard it as a wet Tuesday night in Fife. 

It's never wet in the North East Fife Riviera

[Bestsinceslicebread]

7 hours ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

It's still lop sided.

HL and feeders 80 clubs, LL and feeders 147 plus the WL juniors to be added.

Agreed but its a lot better than what it could be with all the tayside teams joining in the EOSFl

[Burnieman]

Sincerely hope the Stoneyburn signings will be playing EOSFL football next season. The club have yet to confirm that they submitted their application.

They have.

[Pyramidic]

Good to see Luncarty committing to their second season in the EOSFL (refer above wording that should end speculation).

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

3 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

Sincerely hope the Stoneyburn signings will be playing EOSFL football next season. The club have yet to confirm that they submitted their application.

They have.

Are you able to comment further about the likely number of applicants now that the Midland League is going ahead?

 Can we assume that the "4" ERJFA North clubs are no longer looking to join? 

We seem to have 11 from the WL plus Letham AFC which gives 12 clubs but 19 original applicants less 4 still leaves 15 so three more yet to be named.

Good to hear Stoneyburn Juniors have applied.

[Marten]

1 hour ago, Pyramidic said:

Good to see Luncarty committing to their second season in the EOSFL (refer above wording that should end speculation).

From what I understand, it's not even possible at this point to switch from one league to another in the pyramid as it's after the cut-off date for that and as the ML isn't official yet, no EOS clubs can join for 2021/22. I'm not saying any wants to, but if any do we'll only find it out for 2022/23.

[Pyramidic]

22 minutes ago, Marten said:

From what I understand, it's not even possible at this point to switch from one league to another in the pyramid as it's after the cut-off date for that and as the ML isn't official yet, no EOS clubs can join for 2021/22. I'm not saying any wants to, but if any do we'll only find it out for 2022/23.

This would assume that the Tay boundary would change / be redefined. Any news on that front Marten? Unlike the joint WOSFL/ EOSFL statement re West Lothian, nothing has materialised on the ML / EOSFL boundary definition as far as I am aware. If this is the case north of the Tay clubs can still proceed with their applications to join the EOSFL.

[Marten]

This would assume that the Tay boundary would change / be redefined. Any news on that front Marten? Unlike the joint WOSFL/ EOSFL statement re West Lothian, nothing has materialised on the ML / EOSFL boundary definition as far as I am aware. If this is the case north of the Tay clubs can still proceed with their applications to join the EOSFL.

From what I've heard, the ERJFA (soon to be ML) & EOSFL are talking to each other about a boundary. But any details will likely only be revealed once the ML is official. It seems that the entire DD postcode will get defined as ML, meaning Tayport will be ML territory (but no other Fife clubs will be). I know they're talking about Perthshire. North Perthshire will definitely be ML (Blairgowrie, Coupar Angus & possible future amateur applicants like maybe Breadalbane). What happens with the rest remains to be seen in time I suppose. But if any EOS clubs (or Scone Thistle for that matter, assuming they join the ML) find themselves on the "wrong side" for their league, I'd assume that they are allowed to remain where they are if they so wish, just like in the EOSFL/WOSFL agreement. I don't know if the HL/LL line would get redefined to match any ML/EOSFL agreement, but they will have some time to fix that as the only issue that will put that to the test would be if Tayport get promoted to the SPFL and then relegated back down again.
Time will tell...

Edited April 3, 2021 by Marten

[San Starko Rover]

From what I've heard, the ERJFA (soon to be ML) & EOSFL are talking to each other about a boundary. But any details will likely only be revealed once the ML is official. It seems that the entire DD postcode will get defined as ML, meaning Tayport will be ML territory (but no other Fife clubs will be). I know they're talking about Perthshire. North Perthshire will definitely be ML (Blairgowrie, Coupar Angus & possible future amateur applicants like maybe Breadalbane). What happens with the rest remains to be seen in time I suppose. But if any EOS clubs (or Scone Thistle for that matter, assuming they join the ML) find themselves on the "wrong side" for their league, I'd assume that they are allowed to remain where they are if they so wish, just like in the EOSFL/WOSFL agreement. I don't know if the HL/LL line would get redefined to match any ML/EOSFL agreement, but they will have some time to fix that as the only issue that will put that to the test would be if Tayport get promoted to the SPFL and then relegated back down again.
Time will tell...

Once they establish defined areas for NRJFA (Guess it’ll rename) Midlands League and North Caledonian League feeding the Highland League. Then EOSFL, WOSFL and SOSFL feeding the Lowland League. The powers that be simply need to rewrite the rules for the boundary to match these areas.

“Any SPFL team relegated as club 42 will enter the Highland or Lowland League as determined by their geographical location. Highland League area is defined by clubs within the NRJFA, NCL and ML areas. Lowland League area is defined by clubs within the SOSFL, WOSFL and EOSFL areas.”

Bin the Tay Bridge line and use the boundaries as agreed between the leagues making sure there’s no grey areas. No issues if Tayport go up and then back down, they remain HL. Brechin sorry you can’t go LL as you’re in the ML area therefore HL.

[John S]

EofSL and WoSL have come up with boundary defined but local authority areas. EofSL boundary with proposed Midland League not be so defined by the looks of it.

[San Starko Rover]

EofSL and WoSL have come up with boundary defined but local authority areas. EofSL boundary with proposed Midland League not be so defined by the looks of it.

Doesn’t really matter if it’s local authority areas, a straight line or just an agreed area. So long as it’s clear across the country where the league areas are and every bit of the country is covered. Then adjust the HL/LL boundary to match it so there’s no grey areas. Currently we’ve got the scenario of Tayport going up a ML/HL and being relegated LL/EOSFL. Set the country into 6 clear areas, 3 under HL and 3 under LL and match the SPFL boundary to that.

[Truthteller]

1 hour ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

Once they establish defined areas for NRJFA (Guess it’ll rename) Midlands League and North Caledonian League feeding the Highland League. Then EOSFL, WOSFL and SOSFL feeding the Lowland League. The powers that be simply need to rewrite the rules for the boundary to match these areas.

“Any SPFL team relegated as club 42 will enter the Highland or Lowland League as determined by their geographical location. Highland League area is defined by clubs within the NRJFA, NCL and ML areas. Lowland League area is defined by clubs within the SOSFL, WOSFL and EOSFL areas.”

Bin the Tay Bridge line and use the boundaries as agreed between the leagues making sure there’s no grey areas. No issues if Tayport go up and then back down, they remain HL. Brechin sorry you can’t go LL as you’re in the ML area therefore HL.

 

Simple, no complications 

[Marten]

28 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

 

Doesn’t really matter if it’s local authority areas, a straight line or just an agreed area. So long as it’s clear across the country where the league areas are and every bit of the country is covered. Then adjust the HL/LL boundary to match it so there’s no grey areas. Currently we’ve got the scenario of Tayport going up a ML/HL and being relegated LL/EOSFL. Set the country into 6 clear areas, 3 under HL and 3 under LL and match the SPFL boundary to that.

 

Exactly. In the end, both postcode areas and local authority boundaries can be pretty random at times, leaving places outside of the area they identify with or randomly including places that make no sense. For each region the most sensible division should be decided amicably between different leagues. That can be a postcode area, a local authority boundary, a straight line or geographical features (like the river Spey between NCL/NRJFA), whatever suits for that particular region.

[Dev]

With Scotland divided up into Highland and Lowland zones at Tier 5 the boundary is clear i.e. it's currently the infamous line through the Tay Bridge. Above that it's national divisions. Below that regionalisation starts.

At Tier 6, and below, the boundary situation is flexible and it doesn't seem as though that's a particular problem to anyone at Tier 6 and below e.g. Tayport. Also agreements have been made between adjoining leagues in the Lowland League area e.g. the WoS and the EoS. It looks as though something similar will happen between the new Tier 6 leagues in the Highland League area too.

However, the flexible situation at Tier 6  might give any Tier 4 club a precedent for joining the Tier 5 League of its' choice rather than the one which covers where its' ground is located. Tier 4 relegates to Tier 5 and Tier 6 promotes to Tier 5.  There is no reason why Tier 4 and Tier 6 clubs should be treated differently. Why shouldn't Tier 4 clubs have the same flexibility over which Tier 5 leagues it enters? It is a Pyramid so why treat clubs from above differently from those coming up from Tier 6 clubs when they reach Tier 5 level?

Flexibility at the Highland/Lowland League boundary level is fine but there are potential implications further up the Pyramid. How could either of the Highland or Lowland Leagues reject any club from Tier 4 whilst, at the same time, it is prepared to accept clubs from Tier 6 which are "out of their area"?

Any amount of flexibility can be agreed but you cannot exclude that flexibility when it comes to other higher Pyramid clubs. The direct implication of this is that if either Tier 5 League, in future, accepts a club from a Tier 6 club which has its' ground in the other Tier 5 leagues' area then they cannot prevent entry any relegated Tier 4 club, potentially no matter where their home ground is located.

The implication of this is that flexibility can only go so far before there are direct shared consequences for leagues and clubs at Tiers 4-6. It's a Pyramid and not a "Pyramid only when it suits". 

There seems to be a choice and that may be to grant Tier 4 clubs the same flexibility as Tier 6 clubs or, alternately, remove the flexibility for those few Tier 6 clubs which are, eventually, seeking promotion to an out of area Tier 5 League. Such clubs could turn into "bed-blockers" i.e. preventing "in area" runners-up the chance of promotion to their own Tier 5 league, possibly year-in year-out? This could be avoided if the Tier 5 league would accept runner-up under such circumstances whether to direct promotion or a play-off place.

Flexibility between Tier 6 leagues within a zone is one thing but across a zone boundary needs more careful consideration.

 

[Stag Nation]

5 minutes ago, Dev said:

Flexibility at the Highland/Lowland League boundary level is fine but there are potential implications further up the Pyramid. How could either of the Highland or Lowland Leagues reject any club from Tier 4 whilst, at the same time, it is prepared to accept clubs from Tier 6 which are "out of their area

 

They could, and indeed must, reject an "out-of-area" club relegated from Tier 4. AIUI that is mandated by the 3-way agreement between the SPFL, HL and LL.

There is no such restriction on clubs entering from any other league.

Whether this is sensible is another question entirely

[FairWeatherFan]

17 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

They could, and indeed must, reject an "out-of-area" club relegated from Tier 4. AIUI that is mandated by the 3-way agreement between the SPFL, HL and LL.

There is no such restriction on clubs entering from any other league.

Whether this is sensible is another question entirely

I really wouldn't worry about it. The SPFL Play-off rules still stand and has nothing to do with what goes on below. At the moment it's looking like a grand total of 3 clubs will be on the wrong side of the SPFL Play-off boundary. For that to even be tested requires a dramatic turn of fortune for one of those clubs and a minimum of 3 years for it to be an issue.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

4 hours ago, John S said:

EofSL and WoSL have come up with boundary defined but local authority areas. EofSL boundary with proposed Midland League not be so defined by the looks of it.

DD postcodes for Tayport, Newport and Wormit then use the River Tay and Loch Tay moving east from there over to the Stirling local authority area. Job done at that point if Scone are happy where they are. They could use the River Braan instead of the Tay after Dunkeld if Breadalbane from Aberfeldy prefer to be in with Dundee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Braan

Edited April 4, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Stag Nation]

7 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

DD postcodes for Tayport, Newport and Wormit then use the River Tay and Loch Tay moving east from there over to the Stirling local authority area. Job done at that point if Scone are happy where they are. They could use the River Braan instead of the Tay after Dunkeld if Breadalbane from Aberfeldy prefer to be in with Dundee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Braan

Where are Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon  when you need them?

[Dev]

49 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Where are Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon  when you need them?

Probably turning over in their graves!