New clubs in the East of Scotland

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Alex McDowell who wrote one of the two emails on the previous page is from Gartcairn Juniors and that's an Airdrie club. The top SJFA officeholders are from WoS clubs, so it's more complicated than that on footprint.

A WoS officeholder from Rutherglen Glencairn a club that did not retain SJFA membership has expressed skepticism on here about the ML proposal being as close to fruition as the spin from junior blazers suggests.

Highland League secretary Rod Houston said: “Talks have been going on for some time to extend tier six across the north half of the country.

“The North Caledonian FA have agreed and are ready to roll in August this year.

“The North Region Junior FA are all but there and in recent weeks the East Region Junior FA were in touch with us with regard to their Tayside clubs.

“The talks have been constructive and hopefully we will be able to conclude them soon.

“We just have some heads of agreement to finalise.”

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/highland-league/3023221/relegation-play-offs-look-set-to-be-introduced-to-the-highland-league-from-next-season/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Not exactly a graphic design masterpiece but here's a nice simple way to view Tier 6

(Forgot Spey Valley Utd in the exceptions)

Virtually all of Tayport is south of the Tay Bridge line (56 45'13"N), including The Canniepairt.

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Shetland is preferred as the name by Shetlanders. On many islands in Orkney and Shetland the ferries are a significant source of local employment so there is a strong lobby against fixed links.

Orkney should be easy enough to do and a link to Shetland via Fair Isle would be a realistic long term goal after tunnels had linked all the major Orkney islands., but if the Shetland Islands Council can't find the political will to do something as straightforward as Lerwick to Bressay I seriously doubt it will ever happen.

You think a tunnel that's over 7 times the longest road tunnel in the world, to serve a population of about 23,000, is in any way a realistic long term goal? You know linking Shetland to Caithness by tunnels would easily cost £50 billion, which would be over £2 million per person in Shetland? And more to the point, more than the entire annual budget of the Scottish Government? It would be cheaper to give everyone in Shetland a plane and their own pilot.

Tunnels between the islands is a possibility, as is a fixed link to Orkney, but Shetland is waaaaaaay out there. 

[Cyclizine]

2 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Not exactly a graphic design masterpiece but here's a nice simple way to view Tier 6

(Forgot Spey Valley Utd in the exceptions)

Shetland and Lewis & Harris have played in North Caley competitions*, so you could argue they'd be red on your map. I think the proposed NCL/NRJFA boundary is the Spey.

*Shetland won the Jock Mackay Cup in 2014/5

[LongTimeLurker]

8 hours ago, GordonS said:

You think a tunnel that's over 7 times the longest road tunnel in the world, to serve a population of about 23,000, is in any way a realistic long term goal? .... 

Check out some of the tunnels that have been built or are planned in the not too distant future on the Faroe Islands with a population comparable to Orkney and Shetland combined:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_of_the_Faroe_Islands

The latest one being planned would be 25 km long for an island of 4600 people:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suðuroyartunnilin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suðuroy

and would connect to another 10.8 km tunnel currently being built for an island of 1200:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandoyartunnilin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandoy

Then ask yourself why nothing like that ever happens in Scotland. The anti-tolls protests over the Skye fixed link might be a factor.

Edited April 2, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Check out some of the tunnels that have been built or are planned in the not too distant future on the Faroe Islands with a population comparable to Orkney and Shetland combined:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tunnels_of_the_Faroe_Islands

The latest one being planned would be 25 km long for an island of 4600 people:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suðuroyartunnilin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suðuroy

and would connect to another 10.8 km tunnel currently being built for an island of 1200:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandoyartunnilin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandoy

Then ask yourself why nothing like that ever happens in Scotland. The anti-tolls protests over the Skye fixed link might be a factor.

From John O'Groats to the southern tip of Shetland it's 170km. That's further than Aberdeen to Berwick. Even with island-hopping across Orkney you would need over 120km of tunnel to build what you're suggesting. It would be considerably more expensive than the most expensive infrastructure project in the history of Europe, and probably the world and it would be the weirdest use of money ever.

 

[Marten]

12 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

The SJFA as an organisation might more fittingly be described as the Grampian and Tayside FA given their reduced footprint. In that respect they would not be that different than the EoSFA. But I do acknowledge the remnant Junior Cup and the considerable assets held by the SJFA.

Also re. SJFA involvement, I feel it will be easier now the SJFA has new management. The previous lot (including TJ) were holding the SJFA back. I've heard a lot of positive things about the new people who took over, that they are more progressive and more fitted to the new reality.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, Marten said:

Also re. SJFA involvement, I feel it will be easier now the SJFA has new management. The previous lot (including TJ) were holding the SJFA back. I've heard a lot of positive things about the new people who took over, that they are more progressive and more fitted to the new reality.

My main question for how the SJFA involvement goes, do you have to join the SJFA to compete in the North Region and Midlands Leagues?

[Marten]

2 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

My main question for how the SJFA involvement goes, do you have to join the SJFA to compete in the North Region and Midlands Leagues?

I honestly couldn't tell you that so time will tell...

[LongTimeLurker]

38 minutes ago, GordonS said:

From John O'Groats to the southern tip of Shetland it's 170km. That's further than Aberdeen to Berwick. Even with island-hopping across Orkney you would need over 120km of tunnel to build what you're suggesting. It would be considerably more expensive than the most expensive infrastructure project in the history of Europe, and probably the world and it would be the weirdest use of money ever.

In my original post I pointed out that if something as straightforward as Lerwick to Bressay can't be done in the prevailing political culture I seriously doubted it would ever happen. Over the course of the last 50 years or so the Faroese have been phasing out the need to use ferries by building increasingly ambitious tunnels but you have chosen to just ignore the info I provided you about that.

Relying on ferries in the North Atlantic is a pain in the proverbial and very costly economically so there is nothing weird about using all the money that is poured into that which easily runs into tens of million over the couse of a few decades even for something like the relatively shortYell and Unst ferry links on fixed links instead. Scotland could do much the same as the Faroese and Norwegians have in recent decades on replacing ferries with fixed links but won't because only the central belt really matters in its political culture.

Twenty years ago when I was posting about a fully integrated pyramid for Scottish football online it was waaay out there as well and I was often ridiculed. Now it appears to be on the verge of actually happening. Sometimes waaay out there stuff that only a few weirdos take seriously and advocate actually happens.

Edited April 2, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Bestsinceslicebread]

16 hours ago, Junior Pub League said:

Some guys are stuck in the past and cant see beyond the cesspit that was Ra Jooners, time to move on M87. Time to admit your club has been left behind by those clubs that embraced the future in Kelty, the Big Rose and Bo'ness.

No one could have forseen the outside influences that would impact on the pyramid, going forward when the Dundee sides finally fit in under the Highland league there will be a structure in place that will allow any team to progress.

I'm have to agree Junior, but I think when we sit down and truly think of it, no one is being left behind, everyone is different thinking of running their clubs. The pyramid is here to stay and will always be there for any team who wants to progress, dreams to progress, try to progress and will progress.   Right now there are people in charge of teams, not just junior teams or last year ex junior teams but other teams, even senior who are quite happy the way things are with their team, they don't see progression, they just want to stay as it is. Nothing wrong with that but as we all get older, new, young, excitable blood with fill the committee rooms of these teams with exciting ideas and they will look at the pyramid and think, 'yeah, I want a piece of that pyramid and see where it takes us'.  This might be next season, season after, 5 seasons away 10 seasons away but it will happen and I'm excited of the prospect of things like this over the next few season, next 5/10/20 and if still alive 30 odd years. Just if the idea happens with the Midland, North Caledonian and North Leagues joining the pyramid under the Highland League then the pyramid will be complete in its first stage and really over time it will evolve to become more slimline 

This pyramid is here to stay and grow and I for one am excited and even the doubters are changing their views of the pyramid cause they realize its the right thing to do for their team, their club and Scottish Football

Edited April 2, 2021 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Pyramidic]

15 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

My main question for how the SJFA involvement goes, do you have to join the SJFA to compete in the North Region and Midlands Leagues?

Good question. Would Brechin City have to join the SJFA if consecutive relegations saw them plummet to the Midland League?

[Stag Nation]

13 hours ago, gaswork said:

14 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

As others have said, it is an Interesting statement from the SJFA when it talks about "further developing our relationship". I wonder if that means that the SJFA would continue to administer the NRJFA and Midland Leagues (ex ERJFA).  It would put the SJFA on a par with the EOSFL, WOSFL and SOSFL in running tier 6 leagues.  It also raises the possibility of the continuation of the Junior Cup.

Junior association and junior membership and football will continue great news for all involved and many excellent football administrators from the juniors being more and more involved. Delighted.

Would those be the same administrators who have presided over the near-destruction of their organisation, and who couldn't even produce an annual fixture list?

[Burnieman]

36 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

My main question for how the SJFA involvement goes, do you have to join the SJFA to compete in the North Region and Midlands Leagues?

Raises the age old question of just what exactly is the point of the SJFA, there really isn't one unless the Junior Cup stumbles along.   The leagues already run themselves.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Raises the age old question of just what exactly is the point of the SJFA, there really isn't one unless the Junior Cup stumbles along.   The leagues already run themselves.

But it doesn't look like they are in the North and now Midlands. While the WoSFL has the SFA covering discipline for the Premier and their own discipline Secretary for the divisions below. It looks like the SJFA will be taking on that role.

 

8 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Would those be the same administrators who have presided over the near-destruction of their organisation, and who couldn't even produce an annual fixture list?

At this point there's been quite a bit of turnover.

On the fixture list issue it does seem that the East Region moved on a little since the EoSFL departures. I might be misremembering this but for 2019-20 season they might have been out earlier than some other leagues. Which seemed an attempt at winning some bragging rights. The Junior Cup has also been changed that will make it easier and with play-off dates to target there's also the need for a proper fixture list.

[Marten]

16 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

But it doesn't look like they are in the North and now Midlands. While the WoSFL has the SFA covering discipline for the Premier and their own discipline Secretary for the divisions below. It looks like the SJFA will be taking on that role.

 

At this point there's been quite a bit of turnover.

On the fixture list issue it does seem that the East Region moved on a little since the EoSFL departures. I might be misremembering this but for 2019-20 season they might have been out earlier than some other leagues. Which seemed an attempt at winning some bragging rights. The Junior Cup has also been changed that will make it easier and with play-off dates to target there's also the need for a proper fixture list.

There has been a massive change in the running of the ERJFA / SJFA recently. And the feeling I get is that it's almost universally been seen as changes that massively improved things.

[Marten]

On 23/04/2017 at 19:54, Burnie_man said:

 

IMO this is all about forcing the SJFA to engage positively with the Pyramid and hopefully moving as a whole into it and maintaining old rivalries. An increasing number of clubs want that to happen.

Integration will happen eventually, but not the way you envisage. The EoS is pretty much a dead duck and a massive risk for any big Junior club to move into.

There's a reason why Craigroyston and Easthouses moved the other way, and other clubs may follow.

 

 

On 23/04/2017 at 20:19, Wile E Coyote said:

At the moment Kelty and Bo'ness have the squads to walk the EOS but for the most part players are mercenaries with no club ties so whose to say the current players would stay with them to drop down a level to play. They could easily move to another Junior club for the same wages and play at a higher level..

Of course they will probably have a financial advantage over other clubs in the EOS so may be able to recruit other players that will still give them a competitive advantage

 

On 12/05/2017 at 22:22, newcastle broon said:

Well well well where's the humble pie from all the juniorists that said the EOSFL would die and  was finished 

Juniors to the EOSFL na it'll never happen the EoS clubs will go junior  

Seriously on the positive side we're getting closer to a breakthrough we thought we'd never see. 

 

On 13/05/2017 at 11:52, Burnie_man said:

Doesn't change the fact that the EoSFL is a busted flush, and if Kelty do indeed leave, they will expect to breeze through it in one season.  I wouldn't rule out other EoSFL clubs jumping ship the opposite way either.

Hopefully though if this all comes to pass, it's a wake up call to the SFA (and SJFA) to sort their shit out, Because this doesn't answer the question of where the West Junior clubs go.

 

On 13/05/2017 at 12:48, Burnie_man said:

There is no pyramid, we have one in name only. I thought you wanted Whitehill to move to the Juniors anyway?

We'll see how Kelty get on, if it happens.

 

On 13/05/2017 at 14:17, heedthebaa said:

I think it's about time the powers that be start dishing out some fucking telts and stop all this pussy footing about. If clubs like kelty want to come on board, good on them, at least it's a start

 

On 13/05/2017 at 18:08, Burnie_man said:

Went to the Burntisland Shipyard v Eyemouth Utd game today, first time there and a tidy little set-up, but the standard was absolutely dreadful, and a headcount revealed 26 people were watching, presumably some of whom were committee.

A brave move for any top Junior club to move into that league. There's only 2, maybe 3 clubs who would measure up to Junior South Division standard.

 

On 14/05/2017 at 09:37, FairWeatherFan said:

I'd forgotten about that. Still think it would be too much to leave the Juniors without being close to a licence.

Some posts in this thread just under 4 years ago. How things changed since then...

[Dev]

28 minutes ago, Marten said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some posts in this thread just under 4 years ago. How things changed since then...

The Dam burst when Kelty then Dalkeith lead the way. Took courage but they've stuck to their guns. Good to see Dalkeith closing in a getting their SFA Licence too.

20 clubs currently in the EoS all licenced with maybe another five joining them in June. Rumours of five WoS clubs in line for a licence then too. Maybe Creetown from the SoS close to joining in too. Rumours of clubs in the Highland zone and coming into the Pyramid this summer also looking at licencing, some for June 2022.

Who'da thought this could come through under the watch of RP and IM but it has.

If football could recognise the lead given by Kelty and Dalkeith in some way that would be a nice touch.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Dev
.

[LongTimeLurker]

35 minutes ago, Dev said:

The Dam burst when Kelty then Dalkeith lead the way...

The role of Alan Macrae of Cove Rangers in opening up the national divisions to promotion from below should be highlighted as well even if junior clubs crashing the party via the EoS was not part of his agenda. Once one domino falls it can start a chain reaction.

[Marshmallo]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

In my original post I pointed out that if something as straightforward as Lerwick to Bressay can't be done in the prevailing political culture I seriously doubted it would ever happen. Over the course of the last 50 years or so the Faroese have been phasing out the need to use ferries by building increasingly ambitious tunnels but you have chosen to just ignore the info I provided you about that.

Relying on ferries in the North Atlantic is a pain in the proverbial and very costly economically so there is nothing weird about using all the money that is poured into that which easily runs into tens of million over the couse of a few decades even for something like the relatively shortYell and Unst ferry links on fixed links instead. Scotland could do much the same as the Faroese and Norwegians have in recent decades on replacing ferries with fixed links but won't because only the central belt really matters in its political culture.

Twenty years ago when I was posting about a fully integrated pyramid for Scottish football online it was waaay out there as well and I was often ridiculed. Now it appears to be on the verge of actually happening. Sometimes waaay out there stuff that only a few weirdos take seriously and advocate actually happens.

Integrating a couple of different non league football systems in a country of 5m people is in no way analogous to the most ambitious infrastructure project ever proposed by mankind.