New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Dev]

The flexible boundaries of the English pyramid are based upon a south-east bias which existed when their pyramid was set up and which didn't reflect the strength of the northern and midlands leagues. That's why there have been crazy situations where teams as far south as Gloucester and Bishop's Stortford ended up in the northern half of the pyramid.

The English FA has finally seen the error or their ways have plans to start to deal with this, fortunately. However, covid has caused that to be delayed.

Interesting that it is the various national FAs which are in charge of the pyramids in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Funnily enough, while, perhaps justifiably, some haven't liked what has happened in the past, it is the FAs which make things happen. You don't get the "but the FA can't tell leagues or minor associations what to do* nonsense which there has been in Scotland where, for decades, it's the likes of the Juniors, Amateurs, Welfare, etc which run the show within their fiefdoms.

[Whitburn Vale]

13 hours ago, Dev said:

Great Podcast with excellent Guest Speaker!

Looks as though Harthill Royal are the only West Lothian Juniors club which can apply to the WoS. I wonder if they will stop short of going ahead with that as it appears that all of the remainder of the WL clubs won't be allowed in.

It will be interesting to see what Armadale Thistle, Fauldhouse United and Stoneyburn Juniors decide to try next. I hope that they will kick the past into touch and go ahead positively with applications to the EoS. 

Any more news on the Bo'ness Juniors CFC and Sauchie CFC situations?

Harthill are 110% going to the WoSFL....,just spoke to the guy from my work who is on the HRFC committee yesterday and they are going west.

[Rockall]

38 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

Harthill are 110% going to the WoSFL....,just spoke to the guy from my work who is on the HRFC committee yesterday and they are going west.

Any news on Armadale and the others? 

[Whitburn Vale]

2 hours ago, Rockall said:

Any news on Armadale and the others? 

No word from Fauldhouse or Stoneyburn.

One of the Armadale players also works with me,the club and most of the players preference is for the WoSFL but that door has been slammed shut...

Edited March 18, 2021 by Whitburn Vale

[Ray Patterson]

Wonder if there's any suggestion as to which point the EoS will districtise, big ask for new clubs esp. Cupar Hearts to go from playing Tayside/Fife Level games to playing all the way down to Berwick and Coldstream and the like.

Tier 8 could be be a two-way North/South split.

[Burnieman]

No word from Fauldhouse or Stoneyburn.
One of the Armadale players also works with me,the club and most of the players preference is for the WoSFL but that door has been slammed shut...

I actually heard there were a number of Dale players leaving if they went WoS. Immaterial now of course.

[AlanCamelonfan]

18 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

No word from Fauldhouse or Stoneyburn.

One of the Armadale players also works with me,the club and most of the players preference is for the WoSFL but that door has been slammed shut...

Why do players want to go west couple of their players are from Falkirk 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

7 minutes ago, ArabAuslander said:

Wonder if there's any suggestion as to which point the EoS will districtise, big ask for new clubs esp. Cupar Hearts to go from playing Tayside/Fife Level games to playing all the way down to Berwick and Coldstream and the like.

Tier 8 could be be a two-way North/South split.

Presuming there's no north of the Tay clubs joining... the EoSFL area fits fairly neatly into a four way Fife/Lothians/Borders/"Central" split.

Not something that I think will matter much to the current clubs but if they do want to expand further down and bring in the Amateurs it fits reasonably well into the current Amateur leagues as they stand. If the current conferences went to a North (Fife, Falkirk, Stirling) and South (Lothians and Borders) split I think the whole thing work quite well. Not sure how much appetite the clubs in those places below the Premier League would have for further regionalisation at their level.

 

[Whitburn Vale]

No idea alan,seems the squad is split on it..

Armadale are very close to the Harthill guys and they hav been talking to one another constantly over this.

Both clubs biggest gripe is TRAVEL,

Even when I mentioned to the Harthill guy about travelling to the likes of Dalmellington,Girvan or Kello,he still harped on about potential trips to Coldstream,Berwick Eyemouth or Hawick. 

He also said the potential threat of any Tayside involvement in the EoSFL was the tipping point and moving West was a no brainer for HRFC.

The Armadale player reiterated the same point..

Edited March 18, 2021 by Whitburn Vale

[Pyramidic]

30 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said:

No idea alan,seems the squad is split on it..

Armadale are very close to the Harthill guys and they hav been talking to one another constantly over this.

Both clubs biggest gripe is TRAVEL,

Even when I mentioned to the Harthill guy about travelling to the likes of Dalmellington,Girvan or Kello,he still harped on about potential trips to Coldstream,Berwick Eyemouth or Hawick. 

He also said the potential threat of any Tayside involvement in the EoSFL was the tipping point and moving West was a no brainer for HRFC.

The Armadale player reiterated the same point..

When Oban Saints (and their Argyll friends) join the WOSFL the travelling scenario for Harthill will be truly turned on its head

Harthill to Oban - 2 hr 33 min (117.7 mi) via M8, A82 and A85

Harthill to Berwick will become a "walk in the park" at 1 hr 29 min (81.2 mi) via A1

The WOSFL is going to grow!  Some 17 expressions of interest at the last count.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Pyramidic

[Ginaro]

Regionalisation for next season will surely depend on whether this season can be completed and a proper First Division can be formed from the conferences. Otherwise I'm assuming there will be a third conference at tier 7. You basically can't have regional leagues if you want to form a First+Second Division for the following season.

[Burnieman]

https://www.linlithgowgazette.co.uk/sport/football/international/boness-united-chairman-anger-as-rival-senior-club-application-is-lodged-3170082

[Junior Pub League]

2 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said:

No idea alan,seems the squad is split on it..

Armadale are very close to the Harthill guys and they hav been talking to one another constantly over this.

Both clubs biggest gripe is TRAVEL,

Even when I mentioned to the Harthill guy about travelling to the likes of Dalmellington,Girvan or Kello,he still harped on about potential trips to Coldstream,Berwick Eyemouth or Hawick. 

He also said the potential threat of any Tayside involvement in the EoSFL was the tipping point and moving West was a no brainer for HRFC.

The Armadale player reiterated the same point..

Footballers really are stupid 

[parsforlife]

2 hours ago, Whitburn Vale said:

No idea alan,seems the squad is split on it..

Armadale are very close to the Harthill guys and they hav been talking to one another constantly over this.

Both clubs biggest gripe is TRAVEL,

Even when I mentioned to the Harthill guy about travelling to the likes of Dalmellington,Girvan or Kello,he still harped on about potential trips to Coldstream,Berwick Eyemouth or Hawick. 

He also said the potential threat of any Tayside involvement in the EoSFL was the tipping point and moving West was a no brainer for HRFC.

The Armadale player reiterated the same point..

Somebody needs to explain to these guys that there’s roads they can use to drive to the borders,  they don’t have to walk down through the fields.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Someone needs to explain they don't need to play for Armadale. If they are so desperate for trips to Greenock (and who can blame them?) then they can join Harthill. 

[GordonS]

Colin Leiper left Linlithgow Rose for Armadale because Rose were going senior and with a young family and long work hours he didn't want the additional travel time. Travel is a factor for at least this player and I'm not going to criticise that. https://www.linlithgowgazette.co.uk/sport/football/captain-leiper-leaves-linlithgow-family-reasons-2045496

In fairness to Armadale (pained me to type that), the WoS shows a much stronger inclination towards regionalisation and if they were in a regionalised WoS they would rarely have to travel further than Glasgow. The EoS could end up with everything from Berwick to Brechin.

Personally I think the additional handful of hours over the course of a year is trivial, but it matters more to some.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

32 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Colin Leiper left Linlithgow Rose for Armadale because Rose were going senior and with a young family and long work hours he didn't want the additional travel time. Travel is a factor for at least this player and I'm not going to criticise that. https://www.linlithgowgazette.co.uk/sport/football/captain-leiper-leaves-linlithgow-family-reasons-2045496

In fairness to Armadale (pained me to type that), the WoS shows a much stronger inclination towards regionalisation and if they were in a regionalised WoS they would rarely have to travel further than Glasgow. The EoS could end up with everything from Berwick to Brechin.

Personally I think the additional handful of hours over the course of a year is trivial, but it matters more to some.

So far regionalising at the bottom of either the WoSFL or EoSFL is largely just discussed on here or the odd club rep in an interview. In official terms it has rarely been seen. Most of the West comments has been about adding a new division for applicants next year below their Conferences. Which would then lead to Premier-1st-2nd-3rd-4th. Longer term maybe creating a separate division for those clubs that don't meet ground criteria to work on that from within, and finding ways to hook up with the Amateur leagues.  Of course that's all just talk and might not lead to any action.

I certainly don't see either the WoSFL or EoSFL going through an endless expansion. I imagine it would become an administrative nightmare for what amounts to volunteer organisations. In the West's case they had enough votes in the Juniors to go region wide and they have yet to extend their geographic footprint yet. Maybe they could see regionalising happening by linking up with their local amateur leagues instead of doing it themselves.

[Ginaro]

33 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Colin Leiper left Linlithgow Rose for Armadale because Rose were going senior and with a young family and long work hours he didn't want the additional travel time. Travel is a factor for at least this player and I'm not going to criticise that. https://www.linlithgowgazette.co.uk/sport/football/captain-leiper-leaves-linlithgow-family-reasons-2045496

In fairness to Armadale (pained me to type that), the WoS shows a much stronger inclination towards regionalisation and if they were in a regionalised WoS they would rarely have to travel further than Glasgow. The EoS could end up with everything from Berwick to Brechin.

Personally I think the additional handful of hours over the course of a year is trivial, but it matters more to some.

Not a huge amount of difference in 2018/19 between Armadale having 5 Fife away trips (+ Kinnoull, 2xFife and Clydebank in the cups) and Linlithgow with Stirling Uni, Jeanfield, St Andrews, Inverkeithing, plus Ormiston as their furthest Lothians trip (also Beith in the Scottish Cup).

Debateable whether either east or west are more inclined, as both have been regionalised in the recent past. EOS needs more members to regionalise tier 8 (i.e. the West Lothian teams who are concerned about travel!). WOS as the West Region went to regionwide divisions three seasons ago though maybe some clubs might have a change of heart.

[Ray Patterson]

30 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Not a huge amount of difference in 2018/19 between Armadale having 5 Fife away trips (+ Kinnoull, 2xFife and Clydebank in the cups) and Linlithgow with Stirling Uni, Jeanfield, St Andrews, Inverkeithing, plus Ormiston as their furthest Lothians trip (also Beith in the Scottish Cup).

Debateable whether either east or west are more inclined, as both have been regionalised in the recent past. EOS needs more members to regionalise tier 8 (i.e. the West Lothian teams who are concerned about travel!). WOS as the West Region went to regionwide divisions three seasons ago though maybe some clubs might have a change of heart.

West seems a much easier fit into Central and Ayrshire Divisions. East may need to be a 3 way split (Fife, Lothian and Borders), which does line up nice with the amateur leagues tbf.

EDIT:

Made a little graphic displaying it at Tier 8 

Spoiler

 

Green - EOS "North" - Stirling, Clackmannanshire, Fife and Perth and Kinrosshire
Yellow - EOS "Lothian" - Falkirk, West Lothian, Midlothian, Edinburgh, East Lothian
Brown - EOS "South" - Scottish Borders (and Northumberland)

Slivery-Blue - WOS Central 
Light blue - WOS - Ayrshire

Red - SOS - not really relevant but just put there for reference

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by ArabAuslander

[GordonS]

37 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

So far regionalising at the bottom of either the WoSFL or EoSFL is largely just discussed on here or the odd club rep in an interview. In official terms it has rarely been seen. Most of the West comments has been about adding a new division for applicants next year below their Conferences. Which would then lead to Premier-1st-2nd-3rd-4th. Longer term maybe creating a separate division for those clubs that don't meet ground criteria to work on that from within, and finding ways to hook up with the Amateur leagues.  Of course that's all just talk and might not lead to any action.

I certainly don't see either the WoSFL or EoSFL going through an endless expansion. I imagine it would become an administrative nightmare for what amounts to volunteer organisations. In the West's case they had enough votes in the Juniors to go region wide and they have yet to extend their geographic footprint yet. Maybe they could see regionalising happening by linking up with their local amateur leagues instead of doing it themselves.

 

32 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Not a huge amount of difference in 2018/19 between Armadale having 5 Fife away trips (+ Kinnoull, 2xFife and Clydebank in the cups) and Linlithgow with Stirling Uni, Jeanfield, St Andrews, Inverkeithing, plus Ormiston as their furthest Lothians trip (also Beith in the Scottish Cup).

Debateable whether either east or west are more inclined, as both have been regionalised in the recent past. EOS needs more members to regionalise tier 8 (i.e. the West Lothian teams who are concerned about travel!). WOS as the West Region went to regionwide divisions three seasons ago though maybe some clubs might have a change of heart.

All true, but as ever, perception beats reality.