New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Burnieman]

Give it a rest. A pyramid is great, trying to shoehorn every club, level and format isn't.
Clarkston BBs could get the old ash pitch in Katherine Park on a long lease and upgrade it. Scottish football needs to fill the gap between Gartcairn and Plains Amateurs. There's 2 miles with no senior club!

It's good to see a club like Letham AFC being interested, but they really need to get things in order before ever applying. Unless anything has changed, that picture shows that their 3g cage just isn't suitable or compliant for the EoS.

I think I'm right in saying the EoS ask new members to commit to working towards a licence, 3g cages are a million miles away from that.

Perhaps a way forward is the idea alluded to by the WoS , have the ground requirement for new clubs like this joining at the bottom level to be more relaxed allowing them to develop from within the structure, and with the reward of promotion made available only when they meet a higher standard. Maybe we can move to that once all the Junior clubs are on board.

[Sergeant Wilson]

17 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

I only asked a question. I have not been to many of the 3G grounds. It would be helpful to know if any of the venues have some potential.

Well I'm sorry it was harsh, but it's a theme you do perpetuate. There's 3 or 4 school pitches with facilities that wouldn't need much development within 2 miles of my house. It doesn't mean any need a senior club to fill an imagined void.

[Footballfirst]

Most of the school pitches and Saughton 3g don't have a barrier between the pitch and the spectator space, so that would probably rule them out unless they have room to extend the fencing.  

[Ginaro]

10 hours ago, Dev said:

If the EoS accept this ground presumably  it would need to be adjusted to meet league requirements but that could be done over the first season. It has Floodlights so that's a bonus. Maybe this one of a large number of loss making Council owned grounds which are being taken over and run by local clubs and associations throughout Scotland at present e.g. St Cadocs YC in the WoS.  Anyone know more?

Doesn't seem that different to Peffermill 3G as used by Leith Athletic.

27 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

I only asked a question. I have not been to many of the 3G grounds. It would be helpful to know if any of the venues have some potential.

Spend 10 minutes on Google/Bing maps instead of expecting others to do it for you then.

9 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

It's good to see a club like Letham AFC being interested, but they really need to get things in order before ever applying. Unless anything has changed, that picture shows that their 3g cage just isn't suitable or compliant for the EoS.

I think I'm right in saying the EoS ask new members to commit to working towards a licence, 3g cages are a million miles away from that.

Perhaps a way forward is the idea alluded to by the WoS , have the ground requirement for new clubs like this joining at the bottom level to be more relaxed allowing them to develop from within the structure, and with the reward of promotion made available only when they meet a higher standard. Maybe we can move to that once all the Junior clubs are on board.

I don't know what the facilities are like inside Letham's pavilion, but the only other mandatory EOS criteria they seem to fail to meet are: obscured viewing around the cage, protected access from changings room, ambulance access, spectator toilets, signage. These don't seem insurmountable and there's nothing in the criteria or application form that mentions licensing.

Plus, isn't Alliance Park basically a (licensed) 3G cage?

And I think we've now reached the stage of all Junior clubs being on board!

[LongTimeLurker]

Don't think Letham AFC are really any further from EoS ground standards than Hillfield Swifts, Rosyth, Thornton Hibs and Kirkcaldy & Dysart were when they entered so that shouldn't be enough to knock them back as long as they have a plan to get it upgraded to be on par with Blackburn eventually. The issue would be more whether Perth really needs a third EoS club in walking distance of Kinnoull and Jeanfield? Guess there used to be Perth Celtic as well (maybe showing my age with that) so it would be nothing new.

[Pyramidic]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Well I'm sorry it was harsh, but it's a theme you do perpetuate. There's 3 or 4 school pitches with facilities that wouldn't need much development within 2 miles of my house. It doesn't mean any need a senior club to fill an imagined void.

I raised the issue in the context of the Letham FC application to the EOSFL. 

Personally I am not a fan of 3G/4G venues but like it or not they are part of the football landscape.

I would much prefer to see old grounds brought back into use:

Ballingry Rovers - https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/Historic/ballingry.htm

Bonnybridge - https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/Historic/bonnybridge.htm

Steelend Victoria - https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/Historic/steelend.htm

Others are listed at - https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/Historic/lostindex.htm

Trying to provide a helpful hint to any aspiring Amateur or Youth set-up in Fife etc.

[Dev]

3 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

 

Presuming the North Juniors join the pyramid places like Buckie and Forres will have two senior teams. If the Tayside teams come in Forfar will have three. With the gulf between BUFC and BUJFC (or whatever name they end up with) they wont be competing directly. 

Surely the point at Bo'ness is that they are ground-sharing. In most other places the clubs play at different grounds - which is fine as time will tell if they're sustainable or not going under their own steam.

[Dev]

2 hours ago, Marten said:

I would imagine if they make the move, they would want to join Tayside rather than the EOS (assuming Tayside will be in the pyramid).

Understandable for geographical reasons if they were not looking at too much increased travel i.e. North & East Perthshire, Dundee and Angus. I recall that a previous attempt to go Junior was rebuffed so why try that route again, albeit if it is to be a new senior Tayside league? 

[Burnieman]

29 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Doesn't seem that different to Peffermill 3G as used by Leith Athletic.

Spend 10 minutes on Google/Bing maps instead of expecting others to do it for you then.

I don't know what the facilities are like inside Letham's pavilion, but the only other mandatory EOS criteria they seem to fail to meet are: obscured viewing around the cage, protected access from changings room, ambulance access, spectator toilets, signage. These don't seem insurmountable and there's nothing in the criteria or application form that mentions licensing.

Plus, isn't Alliance Park basically a (licensed) 3G cage?

And I think we've now reached the stage of all Junior clubs being on board!

Alliance Park has two seated stands, toilet facilities, pie hut, changing right behind the goals and within the fence, viewing around most of the pitch not just one side. That was from my visit about 2 years ago.  Again, it's not really comparable to a 3G cage.

I think the only comparable ground in the EoS is Rosyth, and that was only supposed to be a temporary measure until they had their new facilities built, which seems to have run into difficulty.  The other is Leith, but again a temporary measure as they're supposed to be moving back to Meadowbank (and Leith are historical members).

I don't think the EoS consider 3G cages as compliant long term, although I guess we'll soon find out.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Burnieman

[Dev]

2 hours ago, xnxx said:

Astro isnt owned or run by the council

Cheers.

If it's private or community then anything is possible re up-grading. 

[Marten]

3 minutes ago, Dev said:

Understandable for geographical reasons if they were not looking at too much increased travel i.e. North & East Perthshire, Dundee and Angus. I recall that a previous attempt to go Junior was rebuffed so why try that route again, albeit if it is to be a new senior Tayside league? 

Back then their ground was deemed not suitable. Their ground has improved since, I've been there myself and I've been impressed with it, it wouldn't look out of place in a senior league. It's also worth noting that southern ERJFA teams won't have been keen on the travel up there, so that could also have played a part. Now it would just be Tayside clubs voting on their potential entry, for these clubs I can't imagine travel to Aberfeldy being an issue.

[Dev]

1 hour ago, San Starko Rover said:

What a long way we’ve come in a short space of time from setting up the LL. People scoffed and laughed at the time that it would fail and no clubs would be interested and now look at it. A couple of more seasons and the East and West will have their pyramids established how the members want things. Give it say 5 years and the LL should be a cracking division. Now we need to get the HL, NCL, NRJFA and Tayside teams to sort out the North, talks are surely ongoing. Hopefully we see the SPFL and LL open their trapdoors to allow free movement of teams between divisions too.

In a decade we’ll wonder what all the fuss was about, personally I’m looking forward to seeing who can rise up the divisions. Ross County, ICT, Peterhead, Elgin (Tuesday’s only) Edinburgh City and Cove Rangers have all joined and established themselves and found their level so there’s no reason why a few more can’t do the same. It’ll be sad to see some historic established teams drop out but that’s football and there’s always a route back.

Do you see any Fife Amateurs looking to move up to the EoS in the next few seasons. Looks as though Cupar Hearts could be one but are there any others which might be viable? Leven United? Balgonie Scotia? St Andrews University? 

[Dev]

1 hour ago, Pyramidic said:

 

Are any of these AWP grounds suitable for EOSFL that are listed on the NLM Forum:

Lothian & Edinburgh AFA. (19/20).

Clubs are changeable with grounds, these are nominated grounds from handbook.

AVU @ Peffermill 3G, 42 Peffermill Rd, EH15 5LL.
B of S Strollers @ Broughton H S 3G, East Fettes Ave, Edinburgh, EH4 1EG.
Edina Hibs @ Portobello H S 3G , Milton Rd, Edinburgh, EH15 3BY.
Edinburgh Harps @ Royal H S 3G,East Barnton Ave, Edinburgh, EH4 6JP.
Edinburgh Star @ Saughton Enclosure 3G, Stevenson Drive, Edinburgh, EH11 3HB.
Fernieside @ Peffermill 3G, 42 Peffermill Rd, EH15 5LL.
Mussleburgh Ams @ Pinkie St Peters 3G, Pinkie Rd, Musselburgh, EH21 7HA.
Meadowbank F C @ Portobello H S 3G , Milton Rd, Edinburgh, EH15 3BY.
Shotts Thistle @ Calderhead H S 3G, Dyfrig St, Shotts, ML7 4DH.
Sporting Saughton @ Saughton Enclosure 3G, Stevenson Drive, Edinburgh, EH11 3HB.
Tollcross Thistle @ Saughton Enclosure 3G, Stevenson Drive, Edinburgh, EH11 3HB.

Border Amateur . (19/20).

Langholm Legion @ Scholars Field 3G, Thomas Telford Rd, DG13 0BL.

Note. In wet weather Hawick clubs - Legion, Legion Rovers & Waverley can use Volunteer Park, Buccleuch Rd, TD9 0EL.
Linton Hotspur can use Penicuik 4G, Beeslack,.

Juniors

Linlithgow Rose CSC @ Xcite AWP, McGinley Way, Linlithgow, EH49 6SQ.

Hoping that Duns will return in the next few seasons, especially if the bottom divisions of the EoS are split North and South.

[Dev]

29 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Don't think Letham AFC are really any further from EoS ground standards than Hillfield Swifts, Rosyth, Thornton Hibs and Kirkcaldy & Dysart were when they entered so that shouldn't be enough to knock them back as long as they have a plan to get it upgraded to be on par with Blackburn eventually. The issue would be more whether Perth really needs a third EoS club in walking distance of Kinnoull and Jeanfield? Guess there used to be Perth Celtic as well (maybe showing my age with that) so it would be nothing new.

Presumably Letham will be going down the Community route with a player pathway? That seems to be the new pattern. On that basis we could be seeing clubs aim to move up on a regular basis provided there's still interest from the local kids/youth/parents.

[Ginaro]

37 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Alliance Park has two seated stands, toilet facilities, pie hut, changing right behind the goals and within the fence, viewing around most of the pitch not just once side. That was from my visit about 2 years ago.  Again, it's not really comparable to a 3G cage.

I think the only comparable ground in the EoS is Rosyth, and that was only supposed to be a temporary measure until they had their new facilities built, which seems to have run into difficulty.  I don't think the EoS consider 3G cages as compliant, although I guess we'll soon find out.

Yes Alliance Park is a bit more than a cage, but the extras needed for licensing aren't required for the EOS criteria, and even then AP still needs temporary fencing for protected access from the changing. 

Biggest difference to Rosyth is Letham have proper space on one side for spectators. Peffermill also has been judged as suitable.

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Ginaro
change picture to correct pitch

[Junior Pub League]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Don't think Letham AFC are really any further from EoS ground standards than Hillfield Swifts, Rosyth, Thornton Hibs and Kirkcaldy & Dysart were when they entered so that shouldn't be enough to knock them back as long as they have a plan to get it upgraded to be on par with Blackburn eventually. The issue would be more whether Perth really needs a third EoS club in walking distance of Kinnoull and Jeanfield? Guess there used to be Perth Celtic as well (maybe showing my age with that) so it would be nothing new.

Utterly bizarre point to raise.

Does Glasgow need Rangers, Celtic, Partick and Queens Park and the WOSL senior clubs?

[Marten]

6 minutes ago, Junior Pub League said:

Utterly bizarre point to raise.

Does Glasgow need Rangers, Celtic, Partick and Queens Park and the WOSL senior clubs?

No, let's dump the first 2 you mentioned.  

[Burnieman]

Yes Alliance Park is a bit more than a cage, but the extras needed for licensing aren't required for the EOS criteria, and even then AP still needs temporary fencing for protected access from the changing. 
Biggest difference to Rosyth is Letham have proper space on one side for spectators. Peffermill also has been judged as suitable.
 

The changing at AP is right behind the goal, closer to the pitch than most.

Peffermill as I said is temporary for Leith until the redevelopment of Meadowbank is completed, a different scenario to a new applicant with a similar 3g cage. Perhaps Letham have plans in place to improve it, if not I'd be surprised if they were accepted.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

32 minutes ago, Marten said:

No, let's dump the first 2 you mentioned.  

Tried dumping the first one but they just came back and pretended it never happened

[xnxx]

They have all ages of football, including 2 adult amateur teams so I wouldn't imagine the pathway wouldn't be an issue

Presumably Letham will be going down the Community route with a player pathway? That seems to be the new pattern. On that basis we could be seeing clubs aim to move up on a regular basis provided there's still interest from the local kids/youth/parents.