New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Whitburn Vale]

Harthill are definitely pursuing a place in the WoSFL and best of luck to them..

They've got an online meeting coming up and hopefully all will be clearer soon on there pathway.

[Pyramidic]

1 hour ago, patriot1 said:

So are the EOS or HL actually engaging in dialogue with the Tayside clubs at the moment?

I suppose the answer must be NO.

The EOSFL in my view is a very progressive and dynamic league. However, we have clearly reached an issue where there appears to be a reluctance to help deliver a satisfactory outcome. This is possibly because the membership is divided on the issue.

Perhaps the Tayside boundary and acceptance or refusal of Dundee clubs should be put to the EOSFL member clubs at the AGM. If there is a negative response we can then move on. I suspect that most clubs in Fife and Perth would be delighted for Dundee clubs to join the EOSFL. Opposition probably grows steeply the further south we go.

The issue needs to be properly addressed and the helpful feedback from EOSFL officials should reflect current decisions.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

I suppose the answer must be NO.

The EOSFL in my view is a very progressive and dynamic league. However, we have clearly reached an issue where there appears to be a reluctance to help deliver a satisfactory outcome. This is possibly because the membership is divided on the issue.

Perhaps the Tayside boundary and acceptance or refusal of Dundee clubs should be put to the EOSFL member clubs at the AGM. If there is a negative response we can then move on. I suspect that most clubs in Fife and Perth would be delighted for Dundee clubs to join the EOSFL. Opposition probably grows steeply the further south we go.

The issue needs to be properly addressed and the helpful feedback from EOSFL officials should reflect current decisions.

Or its more simply the EoSFL haven't had any applicants and have enough self awareness to know it doesn't exist in a vacuum. 

EoS accepting Tayside clubs without wider consultation backdoors them into joint competitions like the Development League, SCC,  Lowland League Playoff and impacts the SPFL Playoff. 

[Junior Pub League]

22 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

The issue needs to be properly addressed and the helpful feedback from EOSFL officials should reflect current decisions.

Its been properly addressed for years, clubs in Tayside sitting on their arses doing nothing whilst the Juniors burnt over the last half decade are wholly culpable in relation to now finding themselves on the outside looking in.

[John S]

1 hour ago, patriot1 said:

So are the EOS or HL actually engaging in dialogue with the Tayside clubs at the moment?

Should this be a discussion between the HL and the LL given that is the real issue with the Tayside border?

[Stag Nation]

27 minutes ago, John S said:

Should this be a discussion between the HL and the LL given that is the real issue with the Tayside border?

They certainly need to be involved, as it would be a nonsense if different boundaries applied at tiers 5 and 6.

However, there is no point in their agreeing to change the HL/LL boundary unless the EoS is willing to take the north-of-Tay teams.

[latapythelegend]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

The WoS has recently mentioned liaison with the Amateur Leagues in future. Also mentioned varying the Entry Requirements for clubs wishing to apply to join and having ground requirements which vary depending upon which Tier a club is in e.g. the Top Tier needing a better standard but the bottom Tier being more relaxed about facilities.

Anyone have any ideas about the EoS doing something similar in future? It would certainly make it easier for ambitious clubs to join and for clubs which may need to take a year or two out of Senior football to return.

Promotions would no longer be based only upon finishing in a promotion position though.

This could be a way of giving amateur football a boost as well. Plenty of teams could step up and there are some cracking amatuer set ups around.

[GordonS]

It would be a bit weird to have Brechin Vics in the EoS and Brechin City in the HL. If Brechin Vics got promoted (I know) they'd be in the LL?

The east/ west line can be co-ordinated between the WoSFL and the EoSFL alone, but the north/ south line needs to be done with the SPFL, the HL and the LL too - and that's going to take some leadership. 

[Cyclizine]

11 minutes ago, GordonS said:

It would be a bit weird to have Brechin Vics in the EoS and Brechin City in the HL. If Brechin Vics got promoted (I know) they'd be in the LL?

Also, slightly further south than Brechin, Montrose Roselea will be playing in the North Superleague, which seems likely to become a recognised Tier 6 league based on current discussions: with possible promotion to the HFL.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Cyclizine

[Burnieman]

It would be a bit weird to have Brechin Vics in the EoS and Brechin City in the HL. If Brechin Vics got promoted (I know) they'd be in the LL?
The east/ west line can be co-ordinated between the WoSFL and the EoSFL alone, but the north/ south line needs to be done with the SPFL, the HL and the LL too - and that's going to take some leadership. 

If the EoS declare that they don't consider that the league covers areas north of the HL/LL line, then that kills the debate stone dead. If they go in the other direction, that is when other leagues need input.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

Think the last 3 posts tells you why we should have definitive borders for every team in the country once and for all. Even the boundary line arranged by the EOSFL and the WOSFL should be made clear.  I personally don't want anyone who has a personal interest to be able to make a decision on the boundary.

 

I.e a team should not be allowed to vote on it. A chairman of a club, who is on the association committee should not be able to make a decision on the matter .

The SFA should grow a set, tell all teams that they are making the boundary decisions and will be seeking points from all relevant parties and everyone on each matter to finally get a resolution

[Dev]

At the moment the north of Tay Bridge situation hasn't been dealt with at Tier 6 and below but it does look as though this can and will be sorted out before next season.

Judging by comments here the N of Tay clubs can apply to the EoS and when one or more does that the question will need to be answered. That answer will lead to a chain of events which could give rise to a Tayside/Angus/Perthshire structure which could be in place for many years. It will be interesting to see what that will be and to see how the new      N of Tay Seniors progress. Can Dundee support a viable 3rd SPFL club?

[Marten]

19 minutes ago, Dev said:

At the moment the north of Tay Bridge situation hasn't been dealt with at Tier 6 and below but it does look as though this can and will be sorted out before next season.

Judging by comments here the N of Tay clubs can apply to the EoS and when one or more does that the question will need to be answered. That answer will lead to a chain of events which could give rise to a Tayside/Angus/Perthshire structure which could be in place for many years. It will be interesting to see what that will be and to see how the new      N of Tay Seniors progress. Can Dundee support a viable 3rd SPFL club?

I'd say the answer to that question is a firm no. I can see ourselves and Broughty reaching tier 5, but I think it's very unlikely either will get any further. There just isn't the potential for another SPFL team in a city with 2 full-time clubs and a further 4 part-time clubs nearby.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

2 hours ago, GordonS said:

It would be a bit weird to have Brechin Vics in the EoS and Brechin City in the HL. If Brechin Vics got promoted (I know) they'd be in the LL?
The east/ west line can be co-ordinated between the WoSFL and the EoSFL alone, but the north/ south line needs to be done with the SPFL, the HL and the LL too - and that's going to take some leadership. 

If the EoS declare that they don't consider that the league covers areas north of the HL/LL line, then that kills the debate stone dead. If they go in the other direction, that is when other leagues need input.

If the EoSFL choose to stick with the line where it is then obviously that's that. But I'd hope they would take part in discussions about how to get the Tayside clubs suitably into the pyramid, even though I hope the line stays pretty much as it is.

[Burnieman]

If the EoSFL choose to stick with the line where it is then obviously that's that. But I'd hope they would take part in discussions about how to get the Tayside clubs suitably into the pyramid, even though I hope the line stays pretty much as it is.

If the EoS decide Tayside is not their area then I can't see them being interested in what happens next, unless the highly unlikely scenario of a Tayside league entering at tier 6 feeding the LL arises.

It would then be upto the Tayside/ERJFA to approach the HL and NRJFA and sort it themselves, with the assistance of the SJFA if needs be.

The EoS really need to make a decision either way (regardless of whether applications have been made or not) so this matter can be moved along towards a solution and we can all argue about something else other than bloody lines.

[GordonS]

2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

If the EoS decide Tayside is not their area then I can't see them being interested in what happens next

I would find it pretty sad and short on solidarity for clubs like Linlithgow Rose and the other former Juniors to not be interested in what happens to Lochee Utd, Carnoustie and the rest. Apart from anything else, it's in all our interests to get this done now. That's surely more likely if everyone is part of it.

[Burnieman]

I would find it pretty sad and short on solidarity for clubs like Linlithgow Rose and the other former Juniors to not be interested in what happens to Lochee Utd, Carnoustie and the rest. Apart from anything else, it's in all our interests to get this done now. That's surely more likely if everyone is part of it.

As I explained it's not their business. I wouldn't expect the HL or its clubs to get involved over whether Tayside clubs joined the EoS for example. There's a solution there for Tayside clubs within the HL pyramid if they want it.

As for solidarity, that was in short supply when a certain individual from Tayside was chucking around abuse and accusing the EoS board of lying on here a couple of years back.

[8MileBU]

26 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I would find it pretty sad and short on solidarity for clubs like Linlithgow Rose and the other former Juniors to not be interested in what happens to Lochee Utd, Carnoustie and the rest. Apart from anything else, it's in all our interests to get this done now. That's surely more likely if everyone is part of it.

Nope!

17 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

As I explained it's not their business. I wouldn't expect the HL or its clubs to get involved over whether Tayside clubs joined the EoS for example. There's a solution there for Tayside clubs within the HL pyramid if they want it.

As for solidarity, that was in short supply when a certain individual from Tayside was chucking around abuse and accusing the EoS board of lying on here a couple of years back.

Yup!

[Bestsinceslicebread]

Sorry if I've picked up the solidarity bit wrong but...,

Solidarity - Yip this is the type of thing that makes teams and associations fall short.
The pyramid is about getting things right, its not about sticking together to make things all cozy for ourselves because of past histories etc...
SPFL 2 did the solidarity crap and shafted everyone below SPFL 2 and everyone knows it from SPFL 2 below and SPFL2 above

 

We need a viable LL and a viable HL with feeders, don't want to make it lop-sided.
Me personally if it means any team north of the TAY must go into a HL feeder, then so be it.
This is about getting the pyramid right for the benefit of Scottish Football and Scottish Teams

Edited March 9, 2021 by Bestsinceslicebread

[parsforlife]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

Can Dundee support a viable 3rd SPFL club?

I personally hate this line of thought tbh.  The answer is always 'lets find out'.

I don't think its unrealistic that Lochee could get promoted to the HL,  and that they might get a chance to win that over the course of a few years( they'd need a few things to go for them,  crucially not having another side being bankrolled) If that did happen then its just a case of seeing how they did,  and I certainly wouldn't consider if they got promoted,  struggled and relegated again within a season or two to be failure. 

Football is full of ups and downs.  20 years ago 2 lanakshire sides playing regularly in the top flight would have been unthinkable,  5 years ago Arbroath comfortably holding their own in the championship would have you laughed at.   St Johnstone winning 2 cups in 7 years was completely unexpected.   There are so many other stories I could use, it's what makes our game brilliant, get the structures right and watch the stories unfold.