New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Nimmo's Notes]

When all the Fife clubs moved over, I messaged a mate, whose son plays for Whitburn, to ask if there were any rumours going around regarding the other clubs. He didn't have any solid info but had heard that Livingston, Fauldhouse and Stoneyburn may have applied. That was back on March 3rd I asked the question. 

Makes you think that that they may have been contemplating it, at least, back then. Maybe the turmoil at Fauldhouse put them off? All just speculation of course. 

As regards the deadline date, to be fair to the SFA and the East Juniors, the erjfa need to plan ahead for next season too, so they can't do that if, at any time, they're losing clubs along the way. 

[GordonS]

It would be interesting to know some of the ins-and-outs of this. If it's the case that the SFA ticked the EOS off for taking Kinnoull late, fair enough, but these are different times. Before rejecting Livi Utd did they go back to the SFA and ask if they'd object this time? It would be disappointing if not.

[Cameron Wilson]

Fairly certain the EOS stated they only let Kinnoul in at the last minute only because Eyemouth dropped out.

Burnie is on to something - not sure a hard deadline is really necessary, even if so end of March seems a bit soon. 

Will be interesting to hear what reception Livingston get next season elsewhere in the West Lothian league, if everyone thinks they're leaving the following season.

[FairWeatherFan]

6 hours ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Fairly certain the EOS stated they only let Kinnoul in at the last minute only because Eyemouth dropped out.

Burnie is on to something - not sure a hard deadline is really necessary, even if so end of March seems a bit soon. 

Will be interesting to hear what reception Livingston get next season elsewhere in the West Lothian league, if everyone thinks they're leaving the following season.

Until there's a settled league structure I can understand the current deadline. The EoS AGM tends to be in the first week or two of June.

If you set the deadline for the likes of April 30th, that gives you about 40 days with two bank holiday weekends to assess candidate applications (ground critiera basically), organise a vote of over 40+ members, collect dues and then come up with league formats depending on the numbers.

[8MileBU]

14 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Who knows, that's a question that can't be answered. The EoS shouldn't restrict themselves with arbitrary deadlines when there is no need, particularly one which is far too early.

Admitting a club after this deadline has no material effect on anyone at all, won't make the slightest bit of difference.

At the very least, it should have gone to EGM and let the members decide. My view is we should look to be inclusive and not exclusive.

Correct!

[Dev]

10 hours ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Fairly certain the EOS stated they only let Kinnoul in at the last minute only because Eyemouth dropped out.

Burnie is on to something - not sure a hard deadline is really necessary, even if so end of March seems a bit soon. 

Will be interesting to hear what reception Livingston get next season elsewhere in the West Lothian league, if everyone thinks they're leaving the following season.

Yes that's an interesting situation. It may not be so rough as all that if others are now realising how isolated they've become. Shafted by the SJFA/WRSJFA. How about a late mass application by the West Lothian sides? What is there left for them in the Juniors?

Given that not even the SFA or SJFA can tell anyone when the next ball is going to be kicked on the park it's a bit daft to cause trouble over one club or even the remaining West Lothian sides if those clubs decided to say enough is enough with the Juniors and head off elsewhere.

There's not even a starting date for next season and even that is unlikely to be in the hands of any footballing authorities. Will there even be a next season starting in this year?

Normally it is understandable for leagues to set and stick with dead-lines but surely no-one can argue that these are normal times? The new WoS didn't announce its new clubs until 14th April and they're still working on a constitution in time for next season so why is the EoS date for applications set so early in the year? It is now out of step with both Tier 6 leagues in the Lowland area and surely needs to keep in-line with the other two? That alteration should be made now.

The Kinnoull situation showed that the current EoS date is too early and now it has happened again. 

The Eos should move its' application date to 30th April and there should be a motion or an amendment to any motion being put to the EGM so that for this season applications which are even later than that should be acceptable i.e. give potential applicants to say 14th May to apply for membership for the next season. Otherwise decide to leave applications to the AGM or permit late applications to be considered at the AGM. 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Dev
.

[Sidney Lumet]

Correct!

Also agreed. As I’d mentioned a few pages back when it was just a rumour, I’d expected it to be raised at the EGM if there had been any truth in it. For their application to be dismissed ahead of time by the board does rather fly in the face of the need for inclusivity, particularly if Livingston, as has been suggested by Sniffer, included a letter alongside their application outlining mitigating circumstances. Surely the clubs should have had a chance to hear those mitigating circumstances? I hope Livingston appeal.

[LongTimeLurker]

45 minutes ago, Dev said:

... What is there left for them in the Juniors? ...

Only the junior cup, and it remains to be seen how many top WoS clubs are still going to take that as seriously as they used to even if they do participate. It's mind boggling that the stronger West Lothian clubs still steered clear this season. Fauldhouse was maybe the domino that needed to fall first.

[Ormi]

11 hours ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Fairly certain the EOS stated they only let Kinnoul in at the last minute only because Eyemouth dropped out.

That was my understanding of it as well. I was surprised to read that the EoS got “told off” by the SFA. I personally saw it as using a bit of common sense - Kinnoul applied after the deadline, so we’re declined, however a space then opened up that they could fill so they were accepted. 

Maybe I expected too much though - common sense and the SFA don’t tend to go together

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, Ormi said:

That was my understanding of it as well. I was surprised to read that the EoS got “told off” by the SFA. I personally saw it as using a bit of common sense - Kinnoul applied after the deadline, so we’re declined, however a space then opened up that they could fill so they were accepted. 

Maybe I expected too much though - common sense and the SFA don’t tend to go together

Think the issue was the SJFA/ERSJFA complaining over it.

[Ray Patterson]

I feel bad for Livingston especially with the news of their committee member, however, the ERSJFA and EoS have every right to act in the way that they did the Rump Juniors have to plan for a season and can't do that if teams decide to leave in May and June, and the EoS has to conform with their own Constitution. It easily as well paints a "poaching clubs" narrative for the Juniors to throw at the EoS, if they were accepted well after the deadline.

I'm sure we'll see them in the EoS in 2021-22 season. 

[Ginaro]

With 40 clubs just now, 10 more expected at the AGM, and a proposed Premier Division of 18 - that leaves 32 for the First Division (presumably 16/16 conferences). If Bo'ness get promoted there will be an odd number in the conferences - could Livingston fill that just like Kinnoull did this season? It would give the ERJFA South an even number of 12 as well.

22 hours ago, teamfinderscot said:

I think should one WL team go there’s more chance the rest would follow suit either this season or next etc. Not only to represent the pyramid better, but they were top of super league before the break so I see them as a good addition, and could help push on the quality of the conferences further.

I would agree, but now we're at an impasse as the EOS aren't going to accept an individual club past the deadline, yet it needs a club to move to start the domino affect (unless they can all agree to move behind the scenes and apply together).

Though the problem is you're unlikely to get the likes of Armdale to agree to it unless there's literally nobody to play, and Syngenta were previously rejected due to their ground.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

...by the last minute the EoS was clearly no longer going to be a jumped up amateur league, so not clear what his point is. Also important to bear in mind that the league management committee members in question could easily be overruled by other members of their clubs at a club AGM on that issue. Maybe the problem at the likes of Armadale and Whitburn is that the club isn't functioning properly where a constituted general meeting is concerned and an entrenched committee calls all the shots so it really is about what the main officeholders want.

[Dev]

6 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Think the issue was the SJFA/ERSJFA complaining over it.

But they don't own the rights of clubs to choose which league to play in. Do they?

What happens if current Juniors decide to just throw in the towel and go amateur? Nothing would happen.

They are also the ones which have fought tooth and nail against the pyramid - yet, allegedly, the SFA agreed with them? Hm. Doesn't make sense as it's the SFA which is supposed to be promoting the pyramid further to compliance requirements with UEFA rules, regulations and policies.

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, Dev said:

But they don't own the rights of clubs to choose which league to play in. Do they?

What happens if current Juniors decide to just throw in the towel and go amateur? Nothing would happen.

They are also the ones which have fought tooth and nail against the pyramid - yet, allegedly, the SFA agreed with them? Hm. Doesn't make sense as it's the SFA which is supposed to be promoting the pyramid further to compliance requirements with UEFA rules, regulations and policies.

Keep in mind that the EoSFL, SoSFL, SJFA, and Lowland League were all in a series of PWG meetings with the SFA meant to play a neutral party to bring everyone together.

You don't think that one of those leagues accepting a club from the other on days notice, causing knock on effects to the league left behind, undermines the process from the SFA point of view.

Keep in mind Ian Maxwell needed the 2018 moves to the EoS explained to him in the January 2019 Minutes. Even though he had headed two PWG meetings by this point.

Quote

Andrew Renwick declared that there would be objections from the East. Ian Maxwell asked if the fundamental objection was the geography issue. There was a general discussion regarding the 25 clubs leaving the SJFA at the end of Season 2017/2018 and joining the East of Scotland and who was responsible for that. Ian Maxwell stated that consultation was not a one way street and that communication from EOS FA surrounding the process could have been better.

Then 5 months later Kinnoull leave the SJFA for the SJFA without much notice.

You can even look at how all the Fife clubs and Luncarty are meant to have handled applying for the EoSFL this year. They are meant to have told the East Region in a meeting weeks before the deadline. Which was one of the factors in how everyone knew they were all going even without public statements in certain cases.

And on another front of Ian Maxwell "supporting" the SJFA over the pyramid leagues:

Quote

Ian Maxwell stated that he felt that there was nothing that could be considered a “show-stopper” and felt the process could be fairly straightforward. He stated that if there was a vote – for the wrong reasons – to stall the process, the Scottish FA Board would consider such action.

That was from Jan 2019 as well. When it came back that no Lowland League pyramid playoff had been created by the Lowland League, the SFA went off and created their own proposal with the East Region Superleague, West Premiership, EoS Premier and SoSFL all on equal footing. Even though he knew all about the objections the LL/EoSFL had over a 2nd East of Scotland feeder league.

There's a reason why Ian Maxwell isn't that well thought of in certain circles, and why people can believe a couple of Junior clubs whispered in his ear to mess up the WoSFL Conferences plan.

[sniffer]

Well that’s Thornton hibs officially accepted into the EOS league next season, if it ever starts lol

[sniffer]

[Che Dail]

2 minutes ago, sniffer said:

Well that’s Thornton hibs officially accepted into the EOS league next season, if it ever starts lol

Congrats 

Sure you won't regret the move - all the best for the new season

[Ginaro]

Lochore as well, let's hope Fife has turned senior (well apart from Tayport)

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Ginaro said:

Lochore as well, let's hope Fife has turned senior (well apart from Tayport)

Congrats to them. Guess the main point of interest tonight is over Edinburgh South since the track record of amateurs/youths getting in has been hit and miss lately.