New clubs in the East of Scotland

[gaz5]

With regard to some comments from earlier today: last season it was definitely confirmed before the season had started that top 5s (and 6th places if required) would form a new Premier Division, and the rest would enter a reinstated First Division. I remember it was known in outline before the Kelty-LTHV title games as there were already 26 clubs onboard by then. Technical details got released with the fixtures in June:

http://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/The-East-of-Scotland-Football-League-Season-2018-19-Fixture-List.pdf



Forming a Second Division was never proposed for this season. For starters there were 'only' 39 clubs - including Eyemouth who then folded - which would hardly have left sufficient clubs for 2 lower divisions. Probably doubtful clubs would have stomached potentially dropping from tier 6 directly into tier 8 either. Remember that 13 existing EOSL clubs not only unanimously elected 26 new clubs in 2018, but did so knowing deep down they would struggle to make the new Premier Division. In the end none of them did (though a few came very close and are in promotion contention this season).

Even if it forming a Second Division had been decided for next season, before this season had started, you could never have confirmed what finishing positions could be required. No-one knew then what (if any) interest there would be from new clubs. You could have said "top 8s = 16" and ended-up with only 6 or 8 clubs in the Second Division. You could have said "top 6s = 12" and ended-up with 20 clubs in the Second Division! In that respect the same precision would simply have been impossible. If a good number of clubs do join that shouldn't be the case next season tbf. This season's technical details got released in May:

https://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/




On the timing: apparently the clubs were asked to put in thoughts from the middle of last year. I know there was a club meeting at Linlithgow in the autumn - but seemingly there was little appetite for action at that time. Next club meeting was apparently at Newtongrange last month. If so a plebiscite of all clubs has been organised, held and acted on within weeks which isn't bad.

Also as I noted before it's been suggested about 1/3 of clubs voted against forming a Second Division at all? They were clearly content to continue with First Division conferences and not just for next season but beyond. I said a few days ago that people seem to have forgotten these clubs. Having to wait for what you want is difficult, but getting what you don't want at all is probably more difficult, even if you have the consolation of 1yr more.

While I agree with most Hibbee, I don't agree with all of that.

You could easily have said top 6's for a 12 team league next season, leaving enough for a Tier 8 if no one came in and the option of either 'promoting' extra clubs in the top 8 if a large number of new clubs or running with conferences at Tier 8 as required under the same circumstances.

The same "didn't know how many clubs" argument could be used against 2 conferences at Tier 7 next season just as it could for them.

However, the issue people are debating isn't really conferences or not, it's the timing of the decision and I don't think it does us any good to bury or head in the sand on that one. We'll leave the propaganda of perfection to other organisations. [emoji846]

I think, and only my opinion, "structure for 2020/21 will be decided in due course" should have been either last off season (preferred) or worst case left till this coming off season, rather than done in the middle of a season, as that undoubtedly influenced voting.

If clubs were canvassed last summer or this coming summer, it wouldn't be such a talking point as it's not decided when the season is already in flight. And you only need to look at what some clubs have been saying to see there's obviously been a lack of clarity somewhere in terms of the plans.

Could clubs have done more regards the timing? To be honest, probably a fair challenge as well and something for the clubs to take away learning wise too.

End of the day, it's not a huge deal. As I've said a few times, given the level of change and the extraordinary circumstances of the last few years in the EoS that the only thing we have to debate is the timing of a democratic vote is somewhat miraculous and speaks volumes for the organisation of the league.

[Che Dail]

50 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

With regard to some comments from earlier today: last season it was definitely confirmed before the season had started that top 5s (and 6th places if required) would form a new Premier Division, and the rest would enter a reinstated First Division. I remember it was known in outline before the Kelty-LTHV title games as there were already 26 clubs onboard by then. Technical details got released with the fixtures in June:

http://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/The-East-of-Scotland-Football-League-Season-2018-19-Fixture-List.pdf



Forming a Second Division was never proposed for this season. For starters there were 'only' 39 clubs - including Eyemouth who then folded - which would hardly have left sufficient clubs for 2 lower divisions. Probably doubtful clubs would have stomached potentially dropping from tier 6 directly into tier 8 either. Remember that 13 existing EOSL clubs not only unanimously elected 26 new clubs in 2018, but did so knowing deep down they would struggle to make the new Premier Division. In the end none of them did (though a few came very close and are in promotion contention this season).

Even if it forming a Second Division had been decided for next season, before this season had started, you could never have confirmed what finishing positions could be required. No-one knew then what (if any) interest there would be from new clubs. You could have said "top 8s = 16" and ended-up with only 6 or 8 clubs in the Second Division. You could have said "top 6s = 12" and ended-up with 20 clubs in the Second Division! In that respect the same precision would simply have been impossible. If a good number of clubs do join that shouldn't be the case next season tbf. This season's technical details got released in May:

https://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/




On the timing: apparently the clubs were asked to put in thoughts from the middle of last year. I know there was a club meeting at Linlithgow in the autumn - but seemingly there was little appetite for action at that time. Next club meeting was apparently at Newtongrange last month. If so a plebiscite of all clubs has been organised, held and acted on within weeks which isn't bad.

Also as I noted before it's been suggested about 1/3 of clubs voted against forming a Second Division at all? They were clearly content to continue with First Division conferences and not just for next season but beyond. I said a few days ago that people seem to have forgotten these clubs. Having to wait for what you want is difficult, but getting what you don't want at all is probably more difficult, even if you have the consolation of 1yr more.

A thorough explanation and everything you say is right.

But the key difference to previous seasons is that decision making on league structure was made by the board based on facts available at the time, logic and fair sporting principles - there wasn't a 'referendum' as such (?).

The league came up with the attached format, not the clubs, and it worked extremely well.

Maybe folk just assumed the same would happen again and took their eye off the ball by failing to speak up when prompted to do so.

Lesson for clubs left disappointed: You cannot afford to be careless.

"He who shouts loudest is heard first" and all that.  

[Scuzz]

It was a closed doors friendly put on at short notice, that's why it wasn't advertised.

 
Ah right, thanks, didn’t know that. Missed that game.

[John S]

I think they train on the same night at Newtown. Might have been arranged through that.

How was that arranged? They are separate entities and no-one from each knows the other. They live in different bits of Bo'ness and have never met.

[Burnie_man]

Anyway from what I'm hearing, don't expect a rush of West Lothian clubs to start firing in applications, far less the tribute acts.

[FairWeatherFan]

58 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Anyway from what I'm hearing, don't expect a rush of West Lothian clubs to start firing in applications, far less the tribute acts.

So a 12-16 South Super League next year depending on the remaining Fife clubs and Syngenta.

[Burnie_man]

6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

So a 12-16 South Super League next year depending on the remaining Fife clubs and Syngenta.

It appears to be that way at the moment.  Upto them if they think that is the best way forward.

5 weeks till the transfer window slams shut.

[FairWeatherFan]

17 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It appears to be that way at the moment.  Upto them if they think that is the best way forward.

5 weeks till the transfer window slams shut.

Maybe they fancy winning the Junior Cup now that a lot of the West look like leaving

[Burnie_man]

5 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Maybe they fancy winning the Junior Cup now that a lot of the West look like leaving

Anything is possible with that lot.

[stanley]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Anyway from what I'm hearing, don't expect a rush of West Lothian clubs to start firing in applications, far less the tribute acts.

Are you expecting the remaining Fife clubs to move?  Or the one or two eligible Perthshire sides?

Would be madness if the Fife sides stayed (other than Tayport who are close to the Tayside teams).

[stulch]

So a 12-16 South Super League next year depending on the remaining Fife clubs and Syngenta.

If only FairweatherFan could do a table graphic update to include their locations... [emoji848][emoji6][emoji23]

[FairWeatherFan]

18 minutes ago, stulch said:

If only FairweatherFan could do a table graphic update to include their locations...

No such luck. To busy hoping West Calder become the first team I know of to lose every game and still get promoted.

[AlanCamelonfan]

Just now, FairWeatherFan said:

No such luck. To busy hoping West Calder become the first team I know of to lose every game and still get promoted.

West calder could be going eosfl

[AlanCamelonfan]

24 minutes ago, stanley said:

Are you expecting the remaining Fife clubs to move?  Or the one or two eligible Perthshire sides?

Would be madness if the Fife sides stayed (other than Tayport who are close to the Tayside teams).

It was apparently said at ersjfa meeting the fide teams were going. Tayport noone sure

[Burnie_man]

So far Rosyth, Kennoway, Kirkcaldy and Thornton have announced they are applying. There's another club who put in an application some time ago so we're upto 5 potential new clubs next season.

[stulch]

No such luck. To busy hoping West Calder become the first team I know of to lose every game and still get promoted.

[emoji23]
Are they the mystery applicant though? [emoji23][emoji12]

[Marten]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

So a 12-16 South Super League next year depending on the remaining Fife clubs and Syngenta.

If the remaining Fife clubs & Scone go, the ERJFA will basically only have Tayside and West Lothian members, with a massive gap in the middle. All clubs should be able to stay junior if they want to, but you need to ask the question if there is any point on continuing the ERJFA in this case. Maybe it's better in that case if ERJFA south merge with WRJFA & ERJFA north with NRJFA.

[stulch]

Seriously though, as we've said many times before the pyramid involves teams playing at their level and it would be so much better for them to join the EoS!

Come on, come and join us, well, the EoS...

[stulch]

West Calder. Although it obviously applies to everyone...

[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

West calder could be going eosfl

Just going by the interview given by the New manager he was talking about going for the league next year. There was no hint or suggestion of things crumbling around him to the point he's league won't actually be there next year.