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New clubs in the East of Scotland


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59 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

I agree with most of that Hibbee, other than the "know what they need to do before the season starts" bit.

I've heard a few folk say that's a reason people might not want to go to prem, 1st, 2nd next year, but we all knew before a ball was kicked this season that was on the cards, same as we did a premier last year from the conference's, so outside of the top 2 race there was a top 6/8 race again as well.

We all knew that a decision would have to be made on Tier 7 since before a ball was kicked and that a straight through structure was one of the potential outcomes.

So the "not knowing" bit I find an odd reasoning when I've heard it used. emoji846.png

The decision really should have been made long before now, but we are where we are and I agree, the "know what you need to do before season starts" just doesn't wash with me. If that is the case, then next season's structure should have been decided at last years AGM.

Blackburn didn't and don't know where we'd go if relegated (apart from somewhere lower!), maybe we should be reprieved if the worst happens 😉

Edited by Burnie_man
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20 minutes ago, G4Mac said:

There is also the promotion chances. If it's a first division you are battling for 3 spots with 16 teams instead of 3 spots with 32 teams.

This is my own personal opinion.

The league structure should have been sorted at the AGM.  At that point, the EoS should have stopped being concerned about future applications and decided the basis of a structure for season 2020-2021 and seasons going forward for the benefit of it's current members.

A single First Division of at least 14 clubs, and then a Second below that to accomodate the remainder plus new applications which most knew would be coming (which could then be regionalised if numbers demanded). That has always been my personal choice, as you say G4Mac, more opportunity to move up (and down).  Conferences have been a great solution to a unique challenge, particularly this season with inter-Conference matches, but two seasons of it is more than enough to allow the league to settle down.

However, we are where we are.  If clubs decide on a continuation of Premier with two Conferences, we are faced with potentially having 14/16 team Conferences with only the winner of each guaranteed a Premier berth, a tough ask.  From a selfish point of view, if we were to go down, I'd rather drop into a 16 team "best of the rest" First Division with three promotion spots to fight for (and maybe 3 or 4 relegation spots to avoid), every game a tough one.

Ultimately clubs will decide on their own view of the situation and that is absolutely the correct way to do it, the majority view will prevail.  Just maybe it could have been done sooner.

EDIT: That rant has been building for a while. Thanks for listening 🤣

Edited by Burnie_man
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11 hours ago, San Starko Rover said:

With regards to Thornton, as I understand it they’ve had planning permission for their fence for a while. I’d be shocked if they haven’t been raising fund to build it especially these last two years as like the rest of us they can see which way the clubs around them are heading.

Their planning permission expired in 2014 though.

9 hours ago, Che Dail said:

Maybe the league should apply the rules stringently to T6, meaning clubs aren't held back from entering the association but have to get their ground in order before they can progress through the leagues.

I'd agree with that - a bit like Rossvale in the west having to move ground when they got promoted to the Premiership.

4 hours ago, gaz5 said:

I agree with most of that Hibbee, other than the "know what they need to do before the season starts" bit.

I've heard a few folk say that's a reason people might not want to go to prem, 1st, 2nd next year, but we all knew before a ball was kicked this season that was on the cards, same as we did a premier last year from the conference's, so outside of the top 2 race there was a top 6/8 race again as well.

We all knew that a decision would have to be made on Tier 7 since before a ball was kicked and that a straight through structure was one of the potential outcomes.

So the "not knowing" bit I find an odd reasoning when I've heard it used. emoji846.png

Exactly - the entire point of conferences is to create roughly equal leagues where you can then cream off the top x in each to create a new division. You can't keep using them year after year at the same level, and let's be honest how different would the tables actually look if you said prior to the season that the top 6 were forming a new first division?

I think it's fairly clear that the top 6 or 7 in each conference would make a good First Division:

Blackburn United
Whitehill Welfare
Newtongrange Star
Dunipace
Glenrothes
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh United
Haddington Athletic
Preston Athletic
Kinnoull
Dalkeith Thistle
St Andrews United
Coldstream
Oakley United (assuming current Brechin/Kelty/Bo'ness situation, otherwise replaced by loser of Leith v IHS play-off)

The Second Division would have 10/11 clubs, plus Eyemouth and further applicants. If you have more than 48 clubs then you need to do something else (tier 8 conferences or regions), though that's a good problem to have as it probably means most of the Juniors have joined.

Edited by Ginaro
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Personally think every year you have conferences there should be another league formed. Ie. EoS Division 2 for top 8 in each league. Then conferences under that if required.

Regional is a good idea but until there's another couple seasons it's difficult to know exact boundaries. Bigger clubs perhaps in Fife and Lothians so it's perhaps a bit harsh on the outliers.

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17 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

In fairness there are other reasons why a given club might not want a Second Division - or at least not starting this year. They might not want to drop down a tier - or at least want to know what they need to do before the season starts. They might simply enjoy the conferences; not want fall more than 1 promotion from Premier Division; etc. etc.
New clubs aspect may factor in their thinking... but I suspect each club's own interests, and their preferred vision for the wider league, will be primary considerations.
Either outcome can work satisfactorily.
League has also shown imagination when deciding the details needed to put the desired setups into operation IMO - e.g. conferences, round-robin, inter-conference games, playoffs etc.

The EoSFL has indeed shown great imagination in the way it has accommodated a large influx of new teams, I imagine it's one of many reasons why these new teams are entirely content to have made the move and are delighted with their new environment. Whoever was charged with coming up with these innovations is deserving of a huge pat on the back from everyone involved. However, they were innovations to solve a unique circumstance.

What you suggest are reasons for some clubs potentially wishing to continue for another season in conferences are reasons that do hold some water but, for me, conferences were a means to an end and that end was to create roughly equal leagues from the raft of new applicants and original members to, in turn, create a new Premier Division for this season. It worked beautifully. I had assumed that this seasons conferences were planned to similarly create a new First Division at the end of the campaign. Failing to create such a First Division and continuing with conferences at Tier 7 will begin to severely limit the promotion chances of teams in those conferences if, as expected, the conferences continue to grow. One up from a conference of potentially sixteen teams or more with a play-off for the team finishing second is no way to aid the flow of teams up and down the Tiers as they attempt to find their true positions in the Pyramid.

Edited by Sidney Lumet
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The clubs that know they are likely to be in the premier next season will probably be the swing vote on this. Blackburn and Dunipace type clubs close to the bottom of the premier or near the top of the conferences will be keen because  they would probably be in a new first division next season and see it as a better option for themselves. A lot of clubs in the conferences who are not in the sort of position Dunipace are at the moment will probably be less keen as they will want to stay one promotion away from the top division.

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57 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The clubs that know they are likely to be in the premier next season will probably be the swing vote on this. Blackburn and Dunipace type clubs close to the bottom of the premier or near the top of the conferences will be keen because  they would probably be in a new first division next season and see it as a better option for themselves. A lot of clubs in the conferences who are not in the sort of position Dunipace are at the moment will probably be less keen as they will want to stay one promotion away from the top division.

This could very well be the case. However, there are clubs who are in the Premier League who are perhaps safe enough for this season but may not be in future seasons and who, like their SPFL Division Two counterparts when they look at the Lowland and Highland Leagues, want as soft a landing as possible. Accordingly, they will no doubt believe that a First Division with promotion spots of 3 from 16 has more to facilitate that soft landing than conferences with promotion spots of 3 from anything up to 32 or more clubs.

At the other end of the scale, there will be teams at the lower end of the current conferences who simply will not see themselves as contenders for promotion to the Premier League any time soon and don't want to be forever floating about near the foot of a conference just so they can continue to be one promotion away from Tier 6 but would, instead, embrace a Tier 8 Second Division that they could actually envision themselves winning. This is the excitement of league football and this is what the creation of a First and Second Division could and should offer.

Edited by Black & Red Socks
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Or alternatively Dunipace could win promotion this season lurker....keep the faith [emoji6]

The clubs that know they are likely to be in the premier next season will probably be the swing vote on this. Blackburn and Dunipace type clubs close to the bottom of the premier or near the top of the conferences will be keen because  they would probably be in a new first division next season and see it as a better option for themselves. A lot of clubs in the conferences who are not in the sort of position Dunipace are at the moment will probably be less keen as they will want to stay one promotion away from the top division.
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On 11/02/2020 at 09:15, Black & Red Socks said:

This could very well be the case. However, there are clubs who are in the Premier League who are perhaps safe enough for this season but may not be in future seasons and who, like their SPFL Division Two counterparts when they look at the Lowland and Highland Leagues, want as soft a landing as possible. Accordingly, they will no doubt believe that a First Division with promotion spots of 3 from 16 has more to facilitate that soft landing than conferences with promotion spots of 3 from anything up to 32 or more clubs.

At the other end of the scale, there will be teams at the lower end of the current conferences who simply will not see themselves as contenders for promotion to the Premier League any time soon and don't want to be forever floating about near the foot of a conference just so they can continue to be one promotion away from Tier 6 but would, instead, embrace a Tier 8 Second Division that they could actually envision themselves winning. This is the excitement of league football and this is what the creation of a First and Second Division could and should offer.

I am not surprised that no decision (or recommendation) has been announced by the EoSL management committee, as yet.  At the moment it is very unclear how many new clubs will apply, which will be taken into consideration . Ultimately it will be the EoSL clubs who will decide the structure for next season. There may be up to 3  structural options suggested by the EoSL Management Committee, depending on the overall number of suitable applicants. 

If (and I mean IF), the remaining West Lothian clubs remain junior, or alternatively apply to join the new WoSL (as a bloc), rather than join the EoSL, then this may well influence the choice of  structure chosen. Clearly this would mean that conferences at tier 7 would NOT be required, and a single division will be created (as anticipated) for 2020/21.  

However if there is to be a small or high number of ERJFA (Fife/Edinburgh) clubs who apply to join the EoSL, the majority of existing EoSL Member clubs  would probably favour the creation of  North & South Divisions (at tier 8), with inter-conference matches being added (as necessary), to ensure that there is a full fixture list for next  2020/21.    

.  

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It’s 100% up to the clubs but I thinks there’s merit in running 1 more season of tier 7 conferences. If and that’s a big if there is expected to be a large number of ERJFA teams moving over but the EOSFL should make it clear this is the last season of confidences and tiers 7 and 8 will be formed from them. It is definitely up to the current members as they’ve already bent over backwards but it could be a last chance to get the pyramid formed quickly as I doubt the weaker teams enjoy pastings by stronger Ex Juniors playing their way through the divisions.

The EOSFL have been excellent throughout and I’ve no doubt they’ll get it right for their members no matter the choice for next season. Assuming the WOSFL goes ahead next year I would think the ERJFA will see a race for the exit for all bar the most die hard Juniors.

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Rosyth noting that most Fife teams are now in the EoS - let's hope they join the dots and make the move...

It was interesting to see that a few EOS teams played ERJFA clubs (Rosyth and Kennoway at the weekend, plus Fauldhouse tonight) in friendlies - wonder how much was said between them!

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32 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Rosyth noting that most Fife teams are now in the EoS - let's hope they join the dots and make the move...

It was interesting to see that a few EOS teams played ERJFA clubs (Rosyth and Kennoway at the weekend, plus Fauldhouse tonight) in friendlies - wonder how much was said between them!

Let's hope this is a good sign.

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Personally in favour of 2 divisions with any new teams starting in second. Decision should have been made at start of this season, but i guess difficult to do so, as if  teams dont move you could have a smaller second division meaning clubs playing each other three times which isn't ideal.

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