New clubs in the East of Scotland

[LongTimeLurker]

Think it's what the ERSJFA decide at a meeting on these options that matters more. If they decide they only want in at tier 6 as a feeder to the LL including clubs north of the Tay boundary and the SJFA is doing the negotiating rather than the regions what happens next? The initials of the national association provide a hint. There's a reason why the SJFA would have still wanted the east and west in at tier 6 as one of the options for discussion.

It's unfortunate the issue of whether the Tayside boundary actually matters is superimposed on top of all of this as it means a straight absorption of junior clubs in the east by the EoS doesn't make the issue of what to do with what would be left of the ERSJFA north of the Tay go away. Under those conditions the ERSJFA is likely to also linger on south of the Tay as well and that spells ongoing trouble for coming up with any solution when the SJFA is doing the negotiating as a national association.

I doubt anything is going to be resolved on this in time for next season unless the SFA have mysterious yet to be revealed powers to impose a solution, which seems unlikely. Best thing to speed things along would probably be a further mass defection from the ERSJFA to the EoS but all the recent posts from the new teams in at tier 8 brigade on here shows that there are people around in EoS circles who are likely to wind up actively undermining that possibility by their words and actions. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[AlanCamelonfan]

27 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Think it's what the ERSJFA decide at a meeting on these options that matters more. If they decide they only want in at tier 6 as a feeder to the LL including clubs north of the Tay boundary and the SJFA is doing the negotiating rather than the regions what happens next? The initials of the national association provide a hint. There's a reason why the SJFA would have still wanted the east and west in at tier 6 as one of the options for discussion.

It's unfortunate the issue of whether the Tayside boundary actually matters is superimposed on top of all of this as it means a straight absorption of junior clubs in the east by the EoS doesn't make the issue of what to do with what would be left of the ERSJFA north of the Tay go away. Under those conditions the ERSJFA is likely to also linger on south of the Tay as well and that spells ongoing trouble for coming up with any solution when the SJFA is doing the negotiating as a national association.

I doubt anything is going to be resolved on this in time for next season unless the SFA have mysterious yet to be revealed powers to impose a solution, which seems unlikely. Best thing to speed things along would probably be a further mass defection from the ERSJFA to the EoS but all the recent posts from the new teams in at tier 8 brigade on here shows that there are people around in EoS circles who are likely to wind up actively undermining that possibility by their words and actions. 

I think theyd accept conferences again if it came to it. Their preference is for a divisional structure for their own clubs benefit to which I agree with to a point. But I'm sure theyd accept it conferences at tier 7 if all ersjfa clubs that CANcome come over do.

[Spyro]

This should be in the “starting from scratch” thread but at least it’ll get seen here...

Copy-of-Pyramid.pdf

TIER 1 - same as now. 12 teams, split after 33 games, 38 games in total. 12th automatically relegated, 11th into playoff.

TIER 2 - as tier 1 with 1st automatically promoted and 2nd, 3rd and 4th into playoff. 12th automatically relegated with 11th into playoff.

TIER 3 - 18 teams, 34 games. 1st automatically promoted, 2nd, 3rd and 4th into playoff. Bottom 3 automatically relegated with 15th going into playoff.

TIER 4 - 16 teams, 30 games. 3 league winners automatically promoted with the 3 2nd placed teams going into playoff with 15th in T3. 15th and 16th automatically relegated (if top tier 5 teams are or are close to being licensed) with 14th into playoff if needed

TIER 5 - 14 teams, 26 games. HL2, EoS Prem and WoS Prem licensed winners automatically promoted. If top 2 teams are licensed in these leagues, 2nd placed will play winners (if licensed) of Tayside (with EoS and 14th of LL East), same with WoS Prem and SoS winners for a playoff with 14th team in tier 4. 13th and 14th relegated into relevant tier 6 leagues...

TIER 6 - 14 teams, 26 games. Promotion decided on keeping the tier 5 leagues at 14 teams but ALL league winners promoted (NCL given an option)

TIER 7 - plenty of room for new teams and competitive games for all

It might not look fair to start with but it would evolve pretty quickly and should remain fair as the seasons go on...

[gaz5]

I think theyd accept conferences again if it came to it. Their preference is for a divisional structure for their own clubs benefit to which I agree with to a point. But I'm sure theyd accept it conferences at tier 7 if all ersjfa clubs that CANcome come over do.

I don't think there's as much support for that at current Conference level as you might think Alan.

I'd reckon most, if not all, for a variety of reasons, would legitimately feel the conference's have already served their purpose, as good as they have been.

[AlanCamelonfan]

4 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

I don't think there's as much support for that at current Conference level as you might think Alan.

I'd reckon most, if not all, for a variety of reasons, would legitimately feel the conference's have already served their purpose, as good as they have been.
 

I get what your saying I'm meaning more it wouldnt be a redline we will not have conferences next season

[gaz5]

I get what your saying I'm meaning more it wouldnt be a redline we will not have conferences next season

You think? [emoji846]

For the clubs being relegated from the Premier and those not being promoted this season to it you'd be asking them to take a further hit on promotion places from the already tight 1.5 from 12 to 1 from 16, over 3 conferences (unless the premier was willing to go to 6 down for a season to allow 2 up, which is highly unlikely [emoji846]).

You'd also be asking the teams at the bottom of the current conferences, who are finding it a struggle in both conferences this season, to go through that again. And based on what I saw yesterday those clubs are arguably a better standard than some in the ERSJFA Premier South already, so we'd be exarcebating that split/issue.

Personal opinion, but for me next year has to be a 3 up/3 down first division made up of the clubs who finish in the top X positions this season. Hopefully that would be a decent league of 16.

If we need conferences below that to avoid going too deep in the structure, fair enough. But not for me at Tier 7 again next year.

[Burnie_man]

21 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

You think?

For the clubs being relegated from the Premier and those not being promoted this season to it you'd be asking them to take a further hit on promotion places from the already tight 1.5 from 12 to 1 from 16, over 3 conferences (unless the premier was willing to go to 6 down for a season to allow 2 up, which is highly unlikely ).

You'd also be asking the teams at the bottom of the current conferences, who are finding it a struggle in both conferences this season, to go through that again. And based on what I saw yesterday those clubs are arguably a better standard than some in the ERSJFA Premier South already, so we'd be exarcebating that split/issue.

Personal opinion, but for me next year has to be a 3 up/3 down first division made up of the clubs who finish in the top X positions this season. Hopefully that would be a decent league of 16.

If we need conferences below that to avoid going too deep in the structure, fair enough. But not for me at Tier 7 again next year.

Spot on, a first divison at tier 7 next season seems to be the mood at the moment amongst many clubs.  It's time to put into place the building blocks of what the EoS is going to look like moving forward.  If that means a single division, or more conferences, at tier 8 to absorb an influx of new applicants then fair enough.

Another season of Conferences at tier 7 in order to accomodate an unknown number of non-members club who might be thinking about joining (or might not) isn't going to be popular I'd imagine.  Clubs are looking for a decision sooner rather than later so they know what to aim for in the run-in to the end of the season., eg a top 6 finish in the Conferences could guarantee a place in a new First.

Some of course will call that vindictive and narrow minded towards non member clubs

Edited January 12, 2020 by Burnie_man

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, Spyro said:

This should be in the “starting from scratch” thread but at least it’ll get seen here...

Copy-of-Pyramid.pdf 68.42 kB · 2 downloads

TIER 1 - same as now. 12 teams, split after 33 games, 38 games in total. 12th automatically relegated, 11th into playoff.

TIER 2 - as tier 1 with 1st automatically promoted and 2nd, 3rd and 4th into playoff. 12th automatically relegated with 11th into playoff.

TIER 3 - 18 teams, 34 games. 1st automatically promoted, 2nd, 3rd and 4th into playoff. Bottom 3 automatically relegated with 15th going into playoff.

TIER 4 - 16 teams, 30 games. 3 league winners automatically promoted with the 3 2nd placed teams going into playoff with 15th in T3. 15th and 16th automatically relegated (if top tier 5 teams are or are close to being licensed) with 14th into playoff if needed

TIER 5 - 14 teams, 26 games. HL2, EoS Prem and WoS Prem licensed winners automatically promoted. If top 2 teams are licensed in these leagues, 2nd placed will play winners (if licensed) of Tayside (with EoS and 14th of LL East), same with WoS Prem and SoS winners for a playoff with 14th team in tier 4. 13th and 14th relegated into relevant tier 6 leagues...

TIER 6 - 14 teams, 26 games. Promotion decided on keeping the tier 5 leagues at 14 teams but ALL league winners promoted (NCL given an option)

TIER 7 - plenty of room for new teams and competitive games for all

It might not look fair to start with but it would evolve pretty quickly and should remain fair as the seasons go on...

My heid hurts again.

[Guest]

Think it's what the ERSJFA decide at a meeting on these options that matters more. If they decide they only want in at tier 6 as a feeder to the LL including clubs north of the Tay boundary and the SJFA is doing the negotiating rather than the regions what happens next? The initials of the national association provide a hint. There's a reason why the SJFA would have still wanted the east and west in at tier 6 as one of the options for discussion.

It's unfortunate the issue of whether the Tayside boundary actually matters is superimposed on top of all of this as it means a straight absorption of junior clubs in the east by the EoS doesn't make the issue of what to do with what would be left of the ERSJFA north of the Tay go away. Under those conditions the ERSJFA is likely to also linger on south of the Tay as well and that spells ongoing trouble for coming up with any solution when the SJFA is doing the negotiating as a national association.

I doubt anything is going to be resolved on this in time for next season unless the SFA have mysterious yet to be revealed powers to impose a solution, which seems unlikely. Best thing to speed things along would probably be a further mass defection from the ERSJFA to the EoS but all the recent posts from the new teams in at tier 8 brigade on here shows that there are people around in EoS circles who are likely to wind up actively undermining that possibility by their words and actions. 

Dear, dear me. The everyone new at tier 8 brigade...... [emoji1787]

 

Your agenda continually shines through when your mask slips, after multiple posts spent trying to further a narrative that is continually proven to be both unworkable and unreasonable.

 

Just because you beat me over the head with the same evidence (that is proven to have little legitimacy) doesn't mean I will suddenly awaken from my slumber and suffer some form of short/long term amnesia and thinks it reasonable to give the sjfa everything their way, because that's what they want now they want involved.

 

 

[Spyro]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

My heid hurts again.

The bairns left the crayons lying out last night again

[AlanCamelonfan]

31 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

You think?

For the clubs being relegated from the Premier and those not being promoted this season to it you'd be asking them to take a further hit on promotion places from the already tight 1.5 from 12 to 1 from 16, over 3 conferences (unless the premier was willing to go to 6 down for a season to allow 2 up, which is highly unlikely ).

You'd also be asking the teams at the bottom of the current conferences, who are finding it a struggle in both conferences this season, to go through that again. And based on what I saw yesterday those clubs are arguably a better standard than some in the ERSJFA Premier South already, so we'd be exarcebating that split/issue.

Personal opinion, but for me next year has to be a 3 up/3 down first division made up of the clubs who finish in the top X positions this season. Hopefully that would be a decent league of 16.

If we need conferences below that to avoid going too deep in the structure, fair enough. But not for me at Tier 7 again next year.

You maybe at tier 6 next season being optimistic 

[Robert James]

9 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

• Who's going to be there to tell them its the Lowland League running it?
• Who's there to tell them it would be by application with priority given to those with licencing and not just the West Premiership getting slotted in?
• Who's going to be there to say that it would mean losing the Junior Cup?
• Who's going to be there to explain all the problems of the East and that the West going in on its own at Tier 6 has the best chance of passing the PWG?
• Anyone likely to mention that the West and East in at Tier 6 has already been voted down?

Nobody. Certainly no representatives from the LL, EoS or SFA as far as i'm aware. Not that the SFA would matter much considering how they've handled things.

Fake news or a statement of fact(s) ? Either way, the West Junior clubs need to look at what is best for their finances, their fans, and for the future of non league football in Scotland.

Remembering what Isa (who ?) said, that without Talbot, the West won't join the pyramid, recent impressions gained from Beechwood Park are that whilst they won't do a 'go it alone  Kellty', they may 'do a 'Bonnyrigg'  by becoming the Junior's standard bearer for an advance to the pyramid ?   

With something as important as the meeting on 16 Jan, representatives from the Lowland League should be invited to the meeting to make a pyramid presentation, and then answer key questions. Thereafter the SLL Reps should leave the meeting, so that theSJFA and the Junior clubs can consider the outcome from the 4 options, and decide what they want to do next.

I agree with FWF's views, that this is unlikely to happen, which means that further discussions, more meetings, delays, etc, will effectively run down the clock, and the pyramid opportunity for the West in  2020/21, will be lost.   

I hope that I am wrong !   

 

[teamfinderscot]

So have any teams indicated they wish to join the east of Scotland? I know this has became very pyramid based and a lot comments of juniors on the west, but in regards to new eos clubs is there any amateurs or juniors that people have heard are rumoured to be applying, I tried scrolling through but brain overload. If anyone knows would be much appreciated.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

Rumours so far have been Thornton, Kirkcaldy & Dysart and Luncarty and there has been a lot of speculation about Fauldhouse.

Edited January 13, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[teamfinderscot]

Rumours so far have been Thornton, Kirkcaldy & Dysart and Luncarty and there has been a lot of speculation about Fauldhouse.

Thanks, Kirkcaldy have benefitted from their merger so woudlnt be a bad move. Also fauldhouse no shock after the fox holes. Cheers

[Anychance]

thornton would need to enclose their park if they joined. they had planning permission for this years ago but never did it would imagine it would cost a bit to do

[Ginaro]

48 minutes ago, Anychance said:

thornton would need to enclose their park if they joined. they had planning permission for this years ago but never did it would imagine it would cost a bit to do

I'm sure they could get away with a bit of fencing that doesn't block anyone's view like Inverkeithing have, especially if they commit to adding something more permanent or substantial in the coming years.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Ginaro

[teamfinderscot]

I'm sure they could get away with a bit of fencing that doesn't block anyone's view like Inverkeithing have, especially if they commit to adding something more permanent or substantial in the coming years.

When I’ve seen them seem like a decent side if they made move would certainly do well in current conferences if they keep their squad together.

[Anychance]

think thornton should of joined last year they most definitely would be at the top end of either conference

depends if they want to spend money enclosing the pitch like I said im sure they have had planning permission for years but never done it

I think if most fife teams made the jump they wouldn't have to do much to meet the requirements

[Guest]

think thornton should of joined last year they most definitely would be at the top end of either conference
depends if they want to spend money enclosing the pitch like I said im sure they have had planning permission for years but never done it
I think if most fife teams made the jump they wouldn't have to do much to meet the requirements

Now I realise it is all about opinions, however a team sitting middle of the current ersjfa superleague would most definitely not be sitting top of either eos league this year.

From what I've seen of the ersjfa this season (admittedly limited games) the eos conferences are a decidedly better standard of football.