New clubs in the East of Scotland

[FairWeatherFan]

While talking about the supposed blame game in all this.

Keep in mind the Lowland League were asked to come up a revised LL pyramid playoff in November by the SFA. Then in January they said they hadn't come up with one as it required that everyone agreed.

Following this they would also advertise for vacancies and used the SPFL pyramid playoff boundary line to rule out potential candidates.

They also voted against the SFA proposal for a revised LL pyramid playoff.

Its also the LL that would deal with the greater consequence of any boundary change from both above and below. The EoSFL may never have to take in Tayside clubs if a Tayside league is allowed in.

So far the LL hasn't said anything of note on the matter, but their actions speak pretty loudly as siding with the EoSFL

[superbigal]

If a Tayside league was established as everyone seems to agree is possible and would have no objections.

Forgetting boundaries for now.

What if said Tayside league wanted to sit below the lowland league as opposed to the Highland league ?

Would anyone object ?

As far as I can gather very few Tayside teams have any appetite for heading north whether you present logistical arguments or not. A Tayside league with the prospect of potential LL entry would be far more acceptable afaik.

In theory if this ever happens you could possibly redraw eos/tayside boundaries (or be flexible) if Tayport or Newburgh or St Andrew's or Jeanfield etc preferred to play with the Angus teams ?

 

The Eos would still increase substantially by absorbing all the southerly Ersjfa teams.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

 

[Jason King]

13 minutes ago, superbigal said:

I

Any thoughts ?

 

 

Yeah, you still haven't apologised to Glenrothes for the lies you spread about them on here in a piss poor attempt to carry favour with your Ra Jooniers pals. 

Twat.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Jason King

[FairWeatherFan]

23 minutes ago, superbigal said:

If a Tayside league was established as everyone seems to agree is possible and would have no objections.

Forgetting boundaries for now.

What if said Tayside league wanted to sit below the lowland league as opposed to the Highland league ?

Would anyone object ?

As far as I can gather very few Tayside teams have any appetite for heading north whether you present logistical arguments or not. A Tayside league with the prospect of potential LL entry would be far more acceptable afaik.

In theory if this ever happens you could possibly redraw eos/tayside boundaries (or be flexible) if Tayport or Newburgh or St Andrew's or Jeanfield etc preferred to play with the Angus teams ?

 

The Eos would still increase substantially by absorbing all the southerly Ersjfa teams.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

 

If you consider it was the EoS that suggested the West & Tayside leagues, and hoped to see representatives of the new leagues at the Lowland PWG meeting, it's not impossible.

Don't see it as being a trade off with switching members though. The EoS has just gone through a significant period of distribution to get organized. 

Not sure any EoS members would want to anyway. They already chose which side of the divide they want to be on. Just look at Kinnoull jumping in at last minute.

[Burnie_man]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

An interesting example of the concept of cognotive dissonance. Beyond that I couldn't give a flying one about the rights and wrongs of the petty blazer politics involved. Unfortunately, because the SFA Board are only taking a passive role in all of this beyond setting up the PWG to facilitate progress, it is highly likely that that the various blazers involved will find a way to prevent a fully functional pyramid from emerging for next season as they did earlier this year for this season.

West will be in next season if they want to be, I'd call that major progress.  I'd also bet more clubs will move to the EoS.  There's no pettiness that I can see from the senior side.

[parsforlife]

If a Tayside league was established as everyone seems to agree is possible and would have no objections.
Forgetting boundaries for now.
What if said Tayside league wanted to sit below the lowland league as opposed to the Highland league ?
Would anyone object ?
As far as I can gather very few Tayside teams have any appetite for heading north whether you present logistical arguments or not. A Tayside league with the prospect of potential LL entry would be far more acceptable afaik.
In theory if this ever happens you could possibly redraw eos/tayside boundaries (or be flexible) if Tayport or Newburgh or St Andrew's or Jeanfield etc preferred to play with the Angus teams ?
 
The Eos would still increase substantially by absorbing all the southerly Ersjfa teams.
 
Any thoughts ?
 
 

A stand-alone tayside league feeding into the LL would be only acceptable as a stepping stone to a 3 region tier 5 IMO.

Let’s say it happened for 20/21 along with west juniors joining.

I would think by 21/22 a change to the play-off structure would need to come in to reflect the number of clubs in LL region and the increase of relegation places that LL would need to offer (1 spot for 4 leagues is far too narrow)

Spfl entry would probably need to go with something like a 3 way play-off between HL champions and LL top 2. This would not be easy for spfl or hl clubs to accept IMO.

By 23/24 a 3 region structure would need to be fully in place with all clubs licenced.

It may well be a good long term goal, but there’s far too many questions for it to be started.

Tayside needs to go north until such changes can agree and be put in place.

[Burnie_man]

44 minutes ago, superbigal said:

If a Tayside league was established as everyone seems to agree is possible and would have no objections.

Forgetting boundaries for now.

What if said Tayside league wanted to sit below the lowland league as opposed to the Highland league ?

Would anyone object ?

As far as I can gather very few Tayside teams have any appetite for heading north whether you present logistical arguments or not. A Tayside league with the prospect of potential LL entry would be far more acceptable afaik.

In theory if this ever happens you could possibly redraw eos/tayside boundaries (or be flexible) if Tayport or Newburgh or St Andrew's or Jeanfield etc preferred to play with the Angus teams ?

The Eos would still increase substantially by absorbing all the southerly Ersjfa teams.

Any thoughts ?

A Tayside League in the Pyramid has been suggested/supported at PWG for the last 12/18 months.

As things stand, it would have to feed into the HL, not the LL.

You have to sit down and decide the potential of several south Ayrshire clubs being involved in the same league as one or two from Tayside and decide whether it's a sensible move for them to be involved in the LL.     Talbot v Lochee, Glenafton v Broughty, Cumnock v Carnoustie, all distinctly possible as future LL fixtures.

Then you have to look at the massive imbalance it creates.

[LongTimeLurker]

46 minutes ago, superbigal said:

... What if said Tayside league wanted to sit below the lowland league as opposed to the Highland league ?

Would anyone object ? ...

Think it's obvious which way the wind is blowing on that where the EoS and LL are concerned. Odds on they want any Tayside league falling under the HL catchment and they both have an effective veto on it where LL feeder status is concerned, so have the power to ensure that it happens.

[gaz5]

Think it's obvious which way the wind is blowing on that where the EoS and LL are concerned. Odds on they want any Tayside league falling under the HL catchment and they both have an effective veto on it where LL feeder status is concerned, so have the power to ensure that it happens.

Why would any league take in members that wouldn't be promoted if they became their champions, to the detriment of their current members who could be promoted?

You can bleat on about this as much as you like, but the LL has a boundary line, meaning the East and South have a boundary line if they want their champion promoted to it.

That those at the top of the game were unaware of it is unsurprising, but those who operate at the level it exists clearly know and operate to the boundary.

For me this is pretty simple. Taking teams into a pyramid structure who can't then be promoted out of Tier 6 of it is stupid.

Unless the LL/HL boundary is changed, Tayside (with a few minor exceptions) go HL as per the existing boundary.


Discuss a boundary change by all means, but don't create more problems by simply driving fingers in ears and ignoring it.

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

Why would any league take in members that wouldn't be promoted if they became their champions, to the detriment of their current members who could be promoted?

You can bleat on about this as much as you like, but the LL has a boundary line, meaning the East and South have a boundary line if they want their champion promoted to it.

That those at the top of the game were unaware of it is unsurprising, but those who operate at the level it exists clearly know and operate to the boundary.

For me this is pretty simple. Taking teams into a pyramid structure who can't then be promoted out of Tier 6 of it is stupid.

Unless the LL/HL boundary is changed, Tayside (with a few minor exceptions) go HL as per the existing boundary.


Discuss a boundary change by all means, but don't create more problems by simply driving fingers in ears and ignoring it.

A Tayside league and discussion over the boundary between the HL/LL goes hand in hand.

 

[gaz5]

A Tayside league and discussion over the boundary between the HL/LL goes hand in hand.
 

I agree, but Lurkers point is, summarised "ignore the boundary, it's only a thing for relegation from Tier 5, not fit the league's below, it's not written down" which is clearly nonsense and would only cause different issues.

As I said in the post you quoted, discuss the boundary if its contentious by all means, but don't ignore it because it suits a pointless narrative. It's there, the league's below adhere to it so to have Tayside in below the EoS it would need to be changed, not ignored.

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, gaz5 said:

I agree, but Lurkers point is, summarised "ignore the boundary, it's only a thing for relegation from Tier 5, not fit the league's below, it's not written down" which is clearly nonsense and would only cause different issues.

As I said in the post you quoted, discuss the boundary if its contentious by all means, but don't ignore it because it suits a pointless narrative. It's there, the league's below adhere to it so to have Tayside in below the EoS it would need to be changed, not ignored.

We know its not being ignored as it's being discussed as part of the options for the next PWG meeting.

If the feeling from the Lowland area leagues in the pyramid is that the boundary shouldn't be changed, then league format options that include the existing East Region shouldn't have enough support as they contradict the thoughts on the boundary.

[gaz5]

We know its not being ignored as it's being discussed as part of the options for the next PWG meeting.

If the feeling from the Lowland area leagues in the pyramid is that the boundary shouldn't be changed, then league format options that include the existing East Region shouldn't have enough support as they contradict the thoughts on the boundary.

The 3 options in the current proposal paper that include the ERSJFA are, in my opinion (and one which will be reflected in our feedback), likely to be rejected with no consideration of the boundary line issue.

 

1 is the option which was rejected unanimously last year and the other 2 are slight rehashes of that terrible idea. The same issues still exist with all 3 regards overlapping East region league's, regardless of where the boundary sits. Why they are included at all is, quite frankly, baffling.

 

The only workable option in the paper is option W, which sees the West move over in isolation.

 

I've not spoken to any other clubs, so this is purely one man's opinion, but I'd be amazed if the 3 options that include the ERSJFA got anywhere near enough support.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

We know its not being ignored as it's being discussed as part of the options for the next PWG meeting....

If the LL and EoS want a boundary at the Tay Bridge line of latitude they'll probably be able to get it given they can block any change on tier 6 feeders to the LL that they don't like, but nobody should pretend it will be because the SFA Board are insisting things be that way based on previous agreements with the SPFL because that clearly isn't the case

[Robert James]

52 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Think it's obvious which way the wind is blowing on that where the EoS and LL are concerned. Odds on they want any Tayside league falling under the HL catchment and they both have an effective veto on it where LL feeder status is concerned, so have the power to ensure that it happens.

True in part. However you didn't respond to my concern that your posts promote pyramid complications, which I am sure you know, will add to dissent, and cause further delays in establishing a West pyramid.   To me, it seems that by maintaining the argument that the LL/EoSL should accept clubs outside its area, you are subtly trying to derail the West clubs from entering the pyramid in 2020/21.  Is this true ?

Or are you  a merely a member/supporter of an ERJFA club jn Dundee or Angus, who is genuinely concerned about  the future of  your club being in the Highland catchment area  ? 

Your response would be both  informative and interesting.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

What part of I don't give a flying one about the rights and wrongs of petty blazer politics did you not understand?

Edited January 2, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, Robert James said:

True in part. However you didn't respond to my concern that your posts promote pyramid complications, which I am sure you know, will add to dissent, and cause further delays in establishing a West pyramid.   To me, it seems that by maintaining the argument that the LL/EoSL should accept clubs outside its area, you are subtly trying to derail the West clubs from entering the pyramid in 2020/21.  Is this true ?

Or are you  a merely a member/supporter of an ERJFA club jn Dundee or Angus, who is genuinely concerned about  the future of  your club being in the Highland catchment area  ? 

Your response would be both  informative and interesting.

 

This has bigger all impact on the PWG discussions.

[Guest]

What part of I don't give a flying one about the rights and wrongs of petty blazer politics did you not understand?

Yet you continue to present a narrative, post after post, that continually stipulates the rights and wrongs of an association sticking to its processes and operating structure........

Can you please stop not caring for the politics.......

Just because 'ra jooniors' now want involved, but aren't happy with how the senior leagues in the pyramid are set up, as it excludes some of their clubs, doesn't mean anything should change.

The west in as they are as a wos league under the LL. The east juniors either join the eos or remain as they are, outwith the Pyramid. The Tayside clubs below the line stay in the LL area and can join the eos and those North of the line go HL if they want to join the pyramid, if not then join the North juniors set up.

There is also no requirement for an East/West split at this point.... This would muddy the water even further.

[Sidney Lumet]

Yet you continue to present a narrative, post after post, that continually stipulates the rights and wrongs of an association sticking to its processes and operating structure........

Can I just pick you up on one thing? It’s not post after post of the same, repetitive, inconsequential and pointless narrative, it’s actually post after post after post after post after post after post after post. After post. A man who will simply not listen despite matters being laid out in a plain and simple fashion to him time after time after time. After time.

My money says he will not remove his fingers from his ears nor his hands from his eyes and his pointless, repetitive narrative will continue for as long as others reply.

[AlanCamelonfan]

8 hours ago, Sidney Lumet said:

 

Can I just pick you up on one thing? It’s not post after post of the same, repetitive, inconsequential and pointless narrative, it’s actually post after post after post after post after post after post after post. After post. A man who will simply not listen despite matters being laid out in a plain and simple fashion to him time after time after time. After time.

My money says he will not remove his fingers from his ears nor his hands from his eyes and his pointless, repetitive narrative will continue for as long as others reply.

 

That's because hes telling the truth unlike ur alias long time lurker