New clubs in the East of Scotland

[superbigal]

If 2 glenrothes teams get in I will predict one to fold within 18 months.

[Burnie_man]

10 minutes ago, superbigal said:

If 2 glenrothes teams get in I will predict one to fold within 18 months.

In which case, does the same ring true in Bo'ness and Linlithgow?

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, superbigal said:

If 2 glenrothes teams get in I will predict one to fold within 18 months.

Looking at what the Strollers are doing it's just a progression we've seen by a lot of other youth clubs with the same background http://www.glenrothesstrollers.co.uk/about

So you're basically predicting that Glenrothes Juniors will fold or some sort of merger.

Looking at how other towns of similar sizes or smaller can have teams co-existing i'm not sure there's that great a risk of it happening unless things are dire with Glenrothes Juniors.

[lithgierose]

9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

In which case, does the same ring true in Bo'ness and Linlithgow?

Hardly the same.you could say the same about bathgate and Blackburn.

[lithgierose]

2 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

 

There's actually a club in the LL who don't do refreshments which took me by surprise when I visited recently. 

Ormiston was the same.they didn't even have a designated toilet for supporters,when we were there.

[Burnie_man]

7 minutes ago, lithgierose said:

Hardly the same.you could say the same about bathgate and Blackburn.

But Bathgate and Blackburn are separate towns? 

If Glenrothes (pop 40,000) can't support two teams according to Al, then does he think neither can Bo'ness and Linlithgow?

 

[GNU_Linux]

Not a new club per say but rumours are that Hawick United currently of the Border ammies are merging with Hawick Royal Albert.

[LongTimeLurker]

The other four new towns have two clubs playing junior or nonleague senior and two of them do it with SPFL teams also present, so it shouldn't be mission impossible for Glenrothes to manage it.

[Ginaro]

One thing that may work against the Glenrothes sides is that they are less than 1km apart in the south of Glenrothes.

As for the league setup next season - is there one which would work best to be ready to incorporate the juniors if they all decided to move over and merge in 2020-21?

[FairWeatherFan]

19 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

One thing that may work against the Glenrothes sides is that they are less than 1km apart in the south of Glenrothes.

As for the league setup next season - is there one which would work best to be ready to incorporate the juniors if they all decided to move over and merge in 2020-21?

You've basically got two choices under the 16 team EoS Premier: 1) Regional Divisions or 2) Conferences with a stated aim to create tiered divisions in 2020-21.

Either one can basically be ripped up if they have to incorporate a large number of clubs in some way. You could say the EoS left things as open as possible this season to allow for a number of clubs to join and only Glenrothes Juniors have taken it up. So say they decide to set up a First and Second Division for 2020-21 they might tell any new applicants to join Second Division level rather than rip up that plan.

It all depends on if its a legit merger.

EDIT: I would also say Lowland League 2 lurks in the background of all this. The EoS Premier could be gutted by a LL2 and a LL2 East could basically take it entirely. At which point anything's up for discussion.

Edited April 14, 2019 by FairWeatherFan

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

You've basically got two choices under the 16 team EoS Premier: 1) Regional Divisions or 2) Conferences with a stated aim to create tiered divisions in 2020-21.

Either one can basically be ripped up if they have to incorporate a large number of clubs in some way. You could say the EoS left things as open as possible this season to allow for a number of clubs to join and only Glenrothes Juniors have taken it up. So say they decide to set up a First and Second Division for 2020-21 they might tell any new applicants to join Second Division level rather than rip up that plan.

It all depends on if its a legit merger.

EDIT: I would also say Lowland League 2 lurks in the background of all this. The EoS Premier could be gutted by a LL2 and a LL2 East could basically take it entirely. At which point anything's up for discussion.

All the EoS can do is plan ahead based on what they have now, Junior clubs have had ample opportunity to join.  IMO you plan for a Premier/First/Second set-up for 2020-2021, and any new applicants next yer join at the bottom tier.

Mergers and/or LL2's are a whole different beast.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

All the EoS can do is plan ahead based on what they have now, Junior clubs have had ample opportunity to join.  IMO you plan for a Premier/First/Second set-up for 2020-2021, and any new applicants next yer join at the bottom tier.

Mergers and/or LL2's are a whole different beast.

That's my thought as well. Last summer there was this expectation of a flood of applicants. That never happened, and it proves they should only work with what is in their control.

[Ginaro]

27 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Either one can basically be ripped up if they have to incorporate a large number of clubs in some way. You could say the EoS left things as open as possible this season to allow for a number of clubs to join and only Glenrothes Juniors have taken it up. So say they decide to set up a First and Second Division for 2020-21 they might tell any new applicants to join Second Division level rather than rip up that plan.

Indeed, last season it was open for tier 6, this season tier 7 was open but suppose there's a point where you can't keep running conferences etc to accommodate possible new clubs and it'll have to be tier 8 next time. Maybe not the best to attract the Juniors but saying that, the ambitious ones have already left and they're going for more local leagues next seasons - what could be more local than a regional tier 8 in the EOS?

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Indeed, last season it was open for tier 6, this season tier 7 was open but suppose there's a point where you can't keep running conferences etc to accommodate possible new clubs and it'll have to be tier 8 next time. Maybe not the best to attract the Juniors but saying that, the ambitious ones have already left and they're going for more local leagues next seasons - what could be more local than a regional tier 8 in the EOS?

The majority of 'South of Tay' juniors made up the regional divisions so being asked to join Second Division North/South would basically be the same thing. They shouldn't mind much, you'd like to think.

 

[Robert James]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The other four new towns have two clubs playing junior or nonleague senior and two of them do it with SPFL teams also present, so it shouldn't be mission impossible for Glenrothes to manage it.

It's just a windup from  superbigal.  Glenrothes is a  large town.  Ignore it.

[superbigal]

It's just a windup from  superbigal.  Glenrothes is a  large town.  Ignore it.

I was certainly not on the wind up.
It cannot be coincidence that the only junior team to apply this year happens to be in direct competition with another applicant. The juniors as far as I can tell are struggling to get 11 signed bodies on the park at the moment. Hardly strikes me as prospective community club. Imo they are both fighting for the same outcome and only one can eventually win. If I'm wrong I will happily eat humble pie.

[Burnie_man]

25 minutes ago, superbigal said:

I was certainly not on the wind up.
It cannot be coincidence that the only junior team to apply this year happens to be in direct competition with another applicant. The juniors as far as I can tell are struggling to get 11 signed bodies on the park at the moment. Hardly strikes me as prospective community club. Imo they are both fighting for the same outcome and only one can eventually win. If I'm wrong I will happily eat humble pie.

So I'll ask again, are the new endevours in Bo'ness and Linlithgow also doomed to fail? these are much smaller towns.

[superbigal]

So I'll ask again, are the new endevours in Bo'ness and Linlithgow also doomed to fail? these are much smaller towns.

How would I know the lie of the land in those towns ?

You dont normally challenge my reasoned opinions.

This is nothing to do with populations. This is very likely political scrambling for survival of the fittest.

Again imo.

If I was to have an opinion of who would win any such battle then I believe the established community club has better long term prospects.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, superbigal said:

How would I know the lie of the land in those towns ?
You dont normally challenge my reasoned opinions.
This is nothing to do with populations. This is very likely political scrambling for survival of the fittest.
Again imo.

I'm asking a reasonable question I think.  Glenrothes is a very large town, it's bigger than Falkirk.  Regardless of reasoning behind their moves, I think there's room enough to support two senior non-league teams.

Bo'ness and Linlithgow are considerably smaller, and with a very well established and successful club in each.  I'd say there's more chance of the new Bo'ness and Linlithgow clubs failing in the short term than either of the Glenrothes sides.

[superbigal]

I dont dispute that glenrothes should be able to support 2 teams in the eos. What I dont think it can support is 2 competing community structures with multiple age groups, women etc.