New clubs in the East of Scotland

[AlanCamelonfan]

3 hours ago, Robert James said:

Whilst on the subject of "crystal balls", it might be interesting if contributors to this forum became "Mystic Mac" (peering into the abyss) and posted their our own views as to which current ERJFA juniors (south of the Tay bridge), will apply to join the EoSL for 2019/20.

And before anyone objects, I will state that this " Mystic Mac" step into the unknown (ie crystal ball gazing) is compiled on the ASSUMPTION that  the PWG/SFA will not approve 2 separate overlapping Tier 6 pyramid feeder leagues in the east for 2019/20.  Please note however, that most attempts  at Scottish football FORECASTING (including mine) usually fail miserably !

Here are the eligible JUNIOR clubs which could become "New Clubs in the East of Scotland League"  for 2019/20, and  (foolishly) include MY PREDICTIONS :-

NOT APPLYING TO  JOIN THE EoSL :   * Armadale    * Fauldhouse     * Harthill Royal      * Newburgh        * Stoneyburn    * Tayport    * West Calder    * Whitburn

YES APPLYING TO JOIN THE EoSL :    * Bathgate         * Glenrothes    * Kennoway Star Hearts    * Kirkcaldy YM    * Livingston United    * Lochgelly Albert    * Lochore Welfare    * Pumperston    * Rosyth    * Thornton Hibs

OTHER POSSIBLE APPLICANTS TO JOIN THE EoSL  ?

* Clydebank (yes if  WoSL not created)     * Sygenta   (probable)     * Glasgow University (no)     * Musselburgh Windsor (unlikely for 2019/20)      * A M Soccer (no)     * Selkirk (no).

Your views are invited.

 

 

 

Considering Fauldhouse are looking into applying I think if bathgate went the dale will go 

[Nimmo's Notes]

8 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

8 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I think it would be unfair for a team to be relegated just because someone below them went bust.

I would agree if Selkirk went bust in March, but it was September. 

What's the cutoff point for a team going bust? 

[HibeeJibee]

14 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I think it would be reasonable enough to re-elect a Lowland League team if the only reason they end up in a relegation place is due to the Selkirk scenario. That's basically the result of a badly written rule, so I wouldn't have a problem with the spirit of the rule in that case. In the SPFL, if a team goes bust then the number of relegation places is reduced by one, so that, say, if 10th in the Premiership is supposed to be safe, then they remain safe and aren't "punished" for something beyond their control.

It's obviously a bit different in the Lowland League since the number of relegation spots is more flexible, but I think it would be unfair for a team to be relegated just because someone below them went bust.

You can also look at it from a practical point of view: if LL clubs reworded the rule to stop 15th being "relegated" to a re-election ballot (due to Selkirk's demise meaning 15th are "bottom" yet simultaneously leaving 1 vacancy) that would suggest a high probability of 15th being re-elected, anyway, were it not reworded.

Indeed whenever this happened in EOSL (where the majority of current LL teams originate from) - when Threave and Dalbeattie left, when Annan ascended, when LL got formed and so on - a club was always reprieved relegation. It was same in SFL when the likes of Airdrieonians, Gretna and Rangers folded, Livingston got demoted, and so forth. As you say SPFL rules now actually explicitly specify this course of action.

Btw, I appreciate that considering the above is different from the principle point of view: whether it's right to reword a rule on promotion/relegation during the season, out of concerns that in some future scenario it could be done nefariously.

[Cameron Wilson]

On 29/01/2019 at 21:11, Robert James said:

Whilst on the subject of "crystal balls", it might be interesting if contributors to this forum became "Mystic Mac" (peering into the abyss) and posted their our own views as to which current ERJFA juniors (south of the Tay bridge), will apply to join the EoSL for 2019/20.

And before anyone objects, I will state that this " Mystic Mac" step into the unknown (ie crystal ball gazing) is compiled on the ASSUMPTION that  the PWG/SFA will not approve 2 separate overlapping Tier 6 pyramid feeder leagues in the east for 2019/20.  Please note however, that most attempts  at Scottish football FORECASTING (including mine) usually fail miserably !

Here are the eligible JUNIOR clubs which could become "New Clubs in the East of Scotland League"  for 2019/20, and  (foolishly) include MY PREDICTIONS :-

NOT APPLYING TO  JOIN THE EoSL :   * Armadale    * Fauldhouse     * Harthill Royal      * Newburgh        * Stoneyburn    * Tayport    * West Calder    * Whitburn

YES APPLYING TO JOIN THE EoSL :    * Bathgate         * Glenrothes    * Kennoway Star Hearts    * Kirkcaldy YM    * Livingston United    * Lochgelly Albert    * Lochore Welfare    * Pumperston    * Rosyth    * Thornton Hibs

OTHER POSSIBLE APPLICANTS TO JOIN THE EoSL  ?

* Clydebank (yes if  WoSL not created)     * Sygenta   (probable)     * Glasgow University (no)     * Musselburgh Windsor (unlikely for 2019/20)      * A M Soccer (no)     * Selkirk (no).

Your views are invited.

 

 

 

Very interesting predictions indeed. Although as I understand it Sygenta had already made their plan to join the EoS clear before the start of this current season.

As we saw from the exodus last year, geography plays a big part in things. For example, Dunbar effectively had no choice but to follow their nearest neighbours and join the EoS, and I believe they werent the only ones who moved on that basis. 

So it is possible Fife might dictate which other clubs make the jump ? If we look at who is likely to be playing at tier 7 which is, as far as we understand, where any new applications will find themselves next year, lets call it EoS div 1 north, we can get an idea of which new teams would be playing who and there would be a solid core of at least three Fife teams:

Oakley

Burntisland 

Inverkeithing

St Andrews (maybe)

Crossgates (probably not)

Would Rosyth, Lochgelly, Lochore and Kirkcaldy in the ERJ premier south be tempted to make the jump knowing they would be guaranteed these opponents right on their doorsteps?

Perhaps not, given the ERJ premier south is exclusively Fife and WL at the moment and travel not much of an issue.

The ER super league is more spread out however - would Thornton, Kennoway or Glenrothes be tempted to move if  an EoS north offered less travelling with Tayside out of the picture?

Not counting Newburgh and Tayport here. They are more in the Tayside sphere of influence than Fife in most ways I believe.

But overall I don't know. Interested to hear what others' thoughts.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Cameron Wilson

[Burnie_man]

28 minutes ago, Cameron Wilson said:

Very interesting predictions indeed. Although as I understand it Sygenta had already made their plan to join the EoS clear before the start of this current season.

As we saw from the exodus last year, geography plays a big part in things. For example, Dunbar effectively had no choice but to follow their nearest neighbours and join the EoS, and I believe they werent the only ones who moved on that basis. 

So it is possible Fife might dictate which other clubs make the jump ? If we look at who is likely to be playing at tier 7 which is, as far as we understand, where any new applications will find themselves next year, lets call it EoS div 1 north, we can get an idea of which new teams would be playing who and there would be a solid core of at least three Fife teams:

Oakley

Burntisland 

Inverkeithing

St Andrews (maybe)

Crossgates (probably not)

Would Rosyth, Lochgelly, Lochore and Kirkcaldy in the ERJ premier south be tempted to make the jump knowing they would be guaranteed these opponents right on their doorsteps?

Perhaps not, given the ERJ premier south is exclusively Fife and WL at the moment and travel not much of an issue.

The ER super league is more spread out however - would Thornton, Kennoway or Glenrothes be tempted to move if  an EoS north offered less travelling with Tayside out of the picture?

Not counting Newburgh and Tayport here. They are more in the Tayside sphere of influence than Fife in most ways I believe.

But overall I don't know. Interested to hear what others' thoughts.

From what I hear, the ERJFA are considering another restructure due to clubs not being happy with travelling.  You've seen the Fauldhouse managers posts on here in that regard, he doesn't seem happy either.  Hopefully some bite the bullet now and move.

[Cameron Wilson]

1 hour ago, Burnie_man said:

From what I hear, the ERJFA are considering another restructure due to clubs not being happy with travelling.  You've seen the Fauldhouse managers posts on here in that regard, he doesn't seem happy either.  Hopefully some bite the bullet now and move.

Yes, spotted the Fauldhouse boss remarks and that he stressed they were his personal opinions only. He seems to be pretty pro-active in engaging with the outside world on the Internet, which is to be admired. The same can't be said of many others unfortunately. But you'd have to think that he is saying what quite a few others are thinking.

It wouldn't surprise me if the ERJFA are going to reshuffle the deck. But I don't see what they can do with the teams they have left without compromising the quality further with more regionalisation. The East Super League no longer seems to be appropriately named. Will others feel the same and feel its time to move to the EoS? You'd think at least a few will come to that conclusion before March 31 if not more.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Cameron Wilson

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

The issue with any restructure is that there is a space in the sfa cup for the winners of the East Superleague.

Reverting to an old Lothian / Fife league could forfeit that prize which is a big carrot for some clubs still in the East juniors.

[falkirktv]

11 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

The issue with any restructure is that there is a space in the sfa cup for the winners of the East Superleague.

Reverting to an old Lothian / Fife league could forfeit that prize which is a big carrot for some clubs still in the East juniors.

removing it would actually solve the tier 6 problem in the east

[Marten]

12 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

The issue with any restructure is that there is a space in the sfa cup for the winners of the East Superleague.

Reverting to an old Lothian / Fife league could forfeit that prize which is a big carrot for some clubs still in the East juniors.

Could they call it Superleague conference north/south or something along those lines and let the winners play off for the championship & cup ticket?

[Ginaro]

3 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

The issue with any restructure is that there is a space in the sfa cup for the winners of the East Superleague.

Reverting to an old Lothian / Fife league could forfeit that prize which is a big carrot for some clubs still in the East juniors.

Just have a play-off to determine the overall East Region winner and they can go to the Scottish Cup. Though it's very likely to be the Tayside winners anyway.

The Fauldhouse manager said before the season that staying junior gives them a better chance of getting to the Scottish Cup than those who moved, but that's unlikely now due to the strength of Lochee. And I don't think Fauldhouse spent last season in the East Premier dreaming about playing the Tayside clubs, so the only way to play the likes of Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness etc. is to join the EOS.

[AlanCamelonfan]

3 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Just have a play-off to determine the overall East Region winner and they can go to the Scottish Cup. Though it's very likely to be the Tayside winners anyway.

The Fauldhouse manager said before the season that staying junior gives them a better chance of getting to the Scottish Cup than those who moved, but that's unlikely now due to the strength of Lochee. And I don't think Fauldhouse spent last season in the East Premier dreaming about playing the Tayside clubs, so the only way to play the likes of Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness etc. is to join the EOS.

Alex jack cup easier to win than junior cup

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

Could they call it Superleague conference north/south or something along those lines and let the winners play off for the championship & cup ticket?

This was a point made when linlithgow were voting but you can't just decide to do that. It would have to be ratified at Hampden.

The cynic in me says it wouldn't be ratified as it would as someone above said solve the East problem if it was removed.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Alex jack cup easier to win than junior cup

Especially when given a bye :-0

Only kidding Alan....... 

[8MileBU]

On 28/01/2019 at 16:13, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

I'm saying if it's based on licensing I think we have the strongest hand.

We do have disabled facilities and policies and a full youth policy too with an U20s team I believe being added to the league next year.

My point is I think Linlithgow tick ALL the licensing boxes for entry next year. So that's why I think that they have the strongest case in that area.

The floodlights are to silver standard on top of that and surely that has to be taken into account.

“We’ve got some stuff!” is a pretty poor case though. It discredits the merits of actually winning games for starters, and if the above are the reasons, they mostly reek of self-entitlement.

Edited January 31, 2019 by 8MileBU

[Auld Heid]

“We’ve got some stuff!” is a pretty poor case though. It discredits the merits of actually winning games for starters, and if the above are the reasons, they mostly reek of self-entitlement.

Agree on merits of winning .

But at the same time you have clubs who want the rewards having done very little to their infrastructure.

So I also understand why having invested heavily in a licence you would want to reap the rewards.

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

“We’ve got some stuff!” is a pretty poor case though. It discredits the merits of actually winning games for starters, and if the above are the reasons, they mostly reek of self-entitlement.

It's more like "we've been taking licensing very seriously" examples above.

Still in with a great shout of winning our conference too. I'd prefer to qualify through merit but if its application we've put the hours in off the park so deserve it imo.

[newcastle broon]

13 minutes ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

It's more like "we've been taking licensing very seriously" examples above.

Still in with a great shout of winning our conference too. I'd prefer to qualify through merit but if its application we've put the hours in off the park so deserve it imo.

I think you are almost certain given how every other club had to apply before a certain date to go EOS yet yer application was accepted after the sell by date had gone. Looks like the powers that be bent over backwards for you whilst you could nae make up yer minds.

 

Did I read that somewhere  ?

I take it it's the LL committee  who decides  ?

Edited January 31, 2019 by newcastle broon

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

Well us and another ten clubs or so but I take your point.

That's in the past but you can probably see it's been a huge decision for a lot of the 'bigger' junior clubs who have taken a huge hit financially this year.

It wasn't a decision to be taken lightly hence why it took time.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said:

Well us and another ten clubs or so but I take your point.

That's in the past but you can probably see it's been a huge decision for a lot of the 'bigger' junior clubs who have taken a huge hit financially this year.

It wasn't a decision to be taken lightly hence why it took time.

Who has taken a huge financial hit?

[grinderbrokeyourhearts]

Well look at Linlithgow for example. Losing gates vs Bo'ness and Bonnyrigg alone is worth thousands.

That's a hit.