New clubs in the East of Scotland

[ormistonforever]

Ormiston don't have toilets or a pie hut.saying that I used a disabled toilet.rebel.

Ormistons pie hut opened yesterday and toilets are not too far away from being installed

[Auld Heid]

Ormistons pie hut opened yesterday and toilets are not too far away from being installed

To late Lithgierose only goes for the pie.

He could never love you otherwise......!!

[Black Dug]

Ormistons pie hut opened yesterday and toilets are not too far away from being installed

The ground wasn't enclosed when we were there either. Has that been completed?

^^^Not a dig, just interested.

[ormistonforever]

The ground wasn't enclosed when we were there either. Has that been completed?

^^^Not a dig, just interested.

The fence is up 3/4 of the way round and will be completed early next year.

[Burnie_man]

I believe the intention for next season is to run Conferences again below the Premier - at tier 7 - and then form a First Division out of that for the following season.

So any Junior clubs still thinking about moving, won't have to start at the bottom.

Two ways to look at it, it's a carrot to get clubs to move over next season and play at a decent level, on the other hand it's galling that clubs who moved over this season will be alongside those who didn't want to move this year.  Not sure if clubs get the final say.

[GNU_Linux]

I believe the intention for next season is to run Conferences again below the Premier - at tier 7 - and then form a First Division out of that for the following season.

So any Junior clubs still thinking about moving, won't have to start at the bottom.

Two ways to look at it, it's a carrot to get clubs to move over next season and play at a decent level, on the other hand it's galling that clubs who moved over this season will be alongside those who didn't want to move this year.  Not sure if clubs get the final say.

Such a carrot may not appeal to those clubs seemingly content playing district football. So its a balancing act of appealing to those clubs & those with higher aspirations of playing region wide or currently do so. Any plans also depend on what happens with the ERJFA (ofc I'm hoping for the common sense and correct outcome). I know its early days yet but are there any rumours of clubs looking to make the switch?

 

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

15 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I believe the intention for next season is to run Conferences again below the Premier - at tier 7 - and then form a First Division out of that for the following season.
So any Junior clubs still thinking about moving, won't have to start at the bottom.
Two ways to look at it, it's a carrot to get clubs to move over next season and play at a decent level, on the other hand it's galling that clubs who moved over this season will be alongside those who didn't want to move this year.  Not sure if clubs get the final say.

Such a carrot may not appeal to those clubs seemingly content playing district football. So its a balancing act of appealing to those clubs & those with higher aspirations of playing region wide or currently do so. I know its early days yet but are there any rumours of clubs looking to make the switch?

It's hard to tell, I know back in May/Apr/May when clubs were applying there were a few who thought about it but decided no with allegedly one later regretting it.  Now, whether they want to take the opportunity this time round remains to be seen.  I think it's almost certain that this would be the last chance to join at tier 7  (assuming this is the format that is agreed), future seasons it will revert to joining at the bottom (tier 8 or 9?)

Even if somehow the ERJFA overcame the Tayside issue and EoS objections and joined the Pyramid, you still have the scenario that for WL clubs in the Superleague it is a lot of travelling northwards and will remain so for the time being, will Fauldhouse and Whitburn (and Pumpherston by the looks of it) want that? We'll see.

[FairWeatherFan]

24 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I believe the intention for next season is to run Conferences again below the Premier - at tier 7 - and then form a First Division out of that for the following season.

So any Junior clubs still thinking about moving, won't have to start at the bottom.

Two ways to look at it, it's a carrot to get clubs to move over next season and play at a decent level, on the other hand it's galling that clubs who moved over this season will be alongside those who didn't want to move this year.  Not sure if clubs get the final say.

Can understand a all in tier 7. Early on it was looking like there would be a couple of teams rooted to the bottom of each conference.

Now 10-12 is looking fairly competitive so there might not be enough desire to split into 3 tiers.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

36 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Such a carrot may not appeal to those clubs seemingly content playing district football. So its a balancing act of appealing to those clubs & those with higher aspirations of playing region wide or currently do so.

I'd have thought regionalised below a Premier would be a good balancing act. South of Tay clubs in the East region would be interested in not having trips up to Angus on the regular (and keeps them away from trips down to the Borders for the same reason) but would also mean only one promotion away from the East Premier if they have ambition to play there or go further on. The conference system just seems like the worst of both worlds...

[craigkillie]

As of right now, there are no plans to have any Angus clubs in the East of Scotland League.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I'd have thought regionalised below a Premier would be a good balancing act. South of Tay clubs in the East region would be interested in not having trips up to Angus on the regular (and keeps them away from trips down to the Borders for the same reason) but would also mean only one promotion away from the East Premier if they have ambition to play there or go further on. The conference system just seems like the worst of both worlds...

Tayside clubs cannot join the EoS, or feed into the LL, therefore regionalisation at tier 7 isn't required.

[GNU_Linux]

I'd have thought regionalised below a Premier would be a good balancing act. South of Tay clubs in the East region would be interested in not having trips up to Angus on the regular (and keeps them away from trips down to the Borders for the same reason) but would also mean only one promotion away from the East Premier if they have ambition to play there or go further on. The conference system just seems like the worst of both worlds...

I forsee an all in tier 7 of 16 teams as prior to the exodus the ERJFA had two region wide then north/south district leagues (there was a central district league but that was scrapped in 2013 after restructuring).

[AsimButtHitsASix]

35 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Tayside clubs cannot join the EoS, or feed into the LL, therefore regionalisation at tier 7 isn't required.

Yeah I'm aware Tayside clubs cannot join the EoS but, the ones in East Region, south of Tay what would be the benefits for them coming over?

If they have aspirations of moving up and either being in the EoS Premier or further into the Lowland League or SPFL itself they would rather be one promotion away from it rather than two or three or whatever so splitting the league below the Premier makes that more attainable. That's the carrot for them. Makes no odds to them if it's random conferences or regionalised.

If you're trying to attract, I dunno, Kirkcaldy YM or Lochore Welfare then they could argue they've got less travelling in East Region South than they would in a random conference that could see them take multiple trips down to the Borders or Denny or Perth. None of these are huge distances in the grand scheme of things but if yer looking to bring more clubs over from the juniors regionalising the competition makes more sense than the conference set up used now.

Keeps the balancing act of giving clubs that want to go further in the pyramid the chance to do so without a bottleneck and allows other clubs to remain at a lower level without an increase in travel costs.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Yeah I'm aware Tayside clubs cannot join the EoS but, the ones in East Region, south of Tay what would be the benefits for them coming over?

If they have aspirations of moving up and either being in the EoS Premier or further into the Lowland League or SPFL itself they would rather be one promotion away from it rather than two or three or whatever so splitting the league below the Premier makes that more attainable. That's the carrot for them. Makes no odds to them if it's random conferences or regionalised.

If you're trying to attract, I dunno, Kirkcaldy YM or Lochore Welfare then they could argue they've got less travelling in East Region South than they would in a random conference that could see them take multiple trips down to the Borders or Denny or Perth. None of these are huge distances in the grand scheme of things but if yer looking to bring more clubs over from the juniors regionalising the competition makes more sense than the conference set up used now.

Keeps the balancing act of giving clubs that want to go further in the pyramid the chance to do so without a bottleneck and allows other clubs to remain at a lower level without an increase in travel costs.

 

In terms of next year if they only have enough teams for 2 divisions I think they'd opt for regionalised North/South Divisions.

It's when you get to 3 divisions that I think the seeded conference approach might take place as rationalisation at that point might lead to lopsided divisions quality wise that are treated as equal.

[Burnie_man]

11 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Yeah I'm aware Tayside clubs cannot join the EoS but, the ones in East Region, south of Tay what would be the benefits for them coming over?

If they have aspirations of moving up and either being in the EoS Premier or further into the Lowland League or SPFL itself they would rather be one promotion away from it rather than two or three or whatever so splitting the league below the Premier makes that more attainable. That's the carrot for them. Makes no odds to them if it's random conferences or regionalised.

If you're trying to attract, I dunno, Kirkcaldy YM or Lochore Welfare then they could argue they've got less travelling in East Region South than they would in a random conference that could see them take multiple trips down to the Borders or Denny or Perth. None of these are huge distances in the grand scheme of things but if yer looking to bring more clubs over from the juniors regionalising the competition makes more sense than the conference set up used now.

Keeps the balancing act of giving clubs that want to go further in the pyramid the chance to do so without a bottleneck and allows other clubs to remain at a lower level without an increase in travel costs.

 

I'm not following you, Tayside clubs wont be in the EoS Premier or the levels below that, they cannot join the EoS, and as things stand they cannot play in a feeder to the Lowland League as they are above the boundary which hasn't moved. So the EoS aren't trying to attract these clubs.

For West Lothian and Fife clubs, Conferences below the EoS Premier wont present them with travel which they cannot cope with or aren't used to already.

[FairWeatherFan]

9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I'm not following you, Tayside clubs wont be in the EoS Premier or the levels below that, they cannot join the EoS, and as things stand they cannot play in a feeder to the Lowland League as they are above the boundary which hasn't moved. So the EoS aren't trying to attract these clubs.

For West Lothian and Fife clubs, Conferences below the EoS Premier wont present them with travel which they cannot cope with or aren't used to already.

Think he's talking about the likes of Scone and Tayport and the handful of other Tayside clubs that fall south of the Tay here.

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Think he's talking about the likes of Scone and Tayport and the handful of other Tayside clubs that fall south of the Tay here.

Right yeah there's Scone and Kinnoul, perhaps they may want to remain with Tayside.  Tayport are Fife so fall under the LL area.

As I said elsewhere, I do actually think the Perthshire clubs should be above the boundary anyway, and just have it that the Fife, Stirlingshire and south of that falls into LL, Perthshire, Tayside and Angus fall into the HL area, rather than having a rigid line.

What's for sure is that we can't have a permanent situation that we shove more clubs into the LL catchment area rather than HL where they should be.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I'm not following you, Tayside clubs wont be in the EoS Premier or the levels below that, they cannot join the EoS, and as things stand they cannot play in a feeder to the Lowland League as they are above the boundary which hasn't moved. So the EoS aren't trying to attract these clubs.

For West Lothian and Fife clubs, Conferences below the EoS Premier wont present them with travel which they cannot cope with or aren't used to already.

I'm aware North of Tay clubs can't join. I never said they could. But of the clubs remaining in the Juniors South of the Tay there needs to be a carrot for them joining.

If they have aspirations to get higher in the pyramid then, to bring them in, you'd imagine they would want to be as close to the EoS Premier as possible (ie: one tier below) which leads you to think if the EoS want to attract clubs they might not do a Premier with a 1st division below that and new clubs coming in even further down...  They'd want to come in at tier 7 as opposed to tier 8.

Of the clubs that aren't fussed/aren't able to compete at that level (for the time being at least) then they'd surely have a preference to join a regionalised structure as opposed to more of the same with conferences. There's no point in a club from Fife, for instance, leaving the East Region only to give themselves journeys to Berwick or Selkirk. They might well be happy to remain in the lower end of the East Region where it's already regionalised. If tier 7 (or 8) was regionalised  in the East of Scotland then they might look more favourably at making the switch.

To sum up:
If you want clubs to join giving them the carrot of making it to the EoS Premier then a split at tier 7 is the best bet as opposed to making them come in at tier 8. This could be a regional split or more conferences. However if you also want the lower ranked junior sides to make the jump then regionalisation would be more beneficial to them than a conference set up.

[Burnie_man]

Aye I'm well aware of the dynamics at play here, and whether there are seeded Conferences or Regional at tier 7 will make little or no difference in the decision making for these clubs as to whether they move or not.

 

The current South Division in the ERJFA consists of WL and Fife clubs already, the travel won't change very much if they move to the EoS.

 

 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

19 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The current South Division in the ERJFA consists of WL and Fife clubs already, the travel won't change very much if they move to the EoS.

Exactly who/what would be the make up different leagues is a bit up in the air but to take the lowest team in the East Region Premier who can play in the EoS League, Glenrothes (I think Kirrie are North of the Tay?)... against East Region Premier League South their average away game would be 28 miles travel. The longest would be 44 miles. All their travel would be comfortably under one hour.

If Glenrothes were put into a league against the bottom four from each conference in the EoS at the moment their average travel would be 48 miles... even their average would be worse than their longest trip in the regionalised juniors and their longest three trips are around the 90 mile mark.

I, personally, think there's a bit too much whinging about travel distances in Scotland but if the EoSFL is looking at enticing clubs from the Juniors then telling clubs that are already struggling to attract players, sponsors, committee members, etc. that they can come over but will need to double their travel times costs isn't the way to do it and if the 7th tier is to be split anyway making things a bit easier on member clubs seems a lot more beneficial than forcing longer journeys.