New clubs in the East of Scotland

[FairWeatherFan]

Like Burnie says long term the geography makes sense for Tier 7 to be region wide long term.

But for 2019-20 I think regionalisation makes most sense to attract as many new applicants as possible. I'd opt for regionalisation rather than conferences just because it's easier to work than figuring out the seeding process. You could end up with roughly 3x Divisions North, Edinburgh/West, Edinburgh/East. Then from that you can create a proper EoS First Division in 2020-21 that would have 5x North, 5x Edinburgh/West and 5x Edinburgh/East clubs.

 

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Like Burnie says long term the geography makes sense for Tier 7 to be region wide long term.

But for 2019-20 I think regionalisation makes most sense to attract as many new applicants as possible. I'd opt for regionalisation rather than conferences just because it's easier to work than figuring out the seeding process. You could end up with roughly 3x Divisions North, Edinburgh/West, Edinburgh/East. Then from that you can create a proper EoS First Division in 2020-21 that would have 5x North, 5x Edinburgh/West and 5x Edinburgh/East clubs.

 

In that scenario you'd end up in a situation I just described, a West Lothian League with a few stragglers, and some regions stronger than others.  It's not really where we want to be.

If necessary, a repeat of this upcoming season would be more sensible and seeding can done in the same manner to achieve roughly equitable leagues. That is just as attractive to new applicants, perhaps more so.

Mind you I'd rather have a straight 16 team second tier for 2019/20 and no more flaffing around.

[FairWeatherFan]

Found this interesting

[Jeek]

Do the SAFA have a position on the pyramid? I think it's fairly safe to assume that the joonyurs in the east is dead, so logically the next step for world domination (channelled my inner Isa there) is to bolt the ams to it on a regional basis. Having a plan for how that would look may well entice leagues en masse. I.e. regionalised tier 8 of what what was the bottom juniors in Fife, with the Kingdom league or what it's called now, bolted on below.

[FairWeatherFan]

Right now we're already seeing interested amateurs try to join the EoS directly. Until the EoS has settled structure in place there's no real need for a formal link up with the amateur leagues.

Edited July 11, 2018 by FairWeatherFan

[craigkillie]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Right now we're already seeing interested amateurs try to join the EoS directly. Once the EoS has settled structure in place there's no real need for a formal link up with the amateur leagues.

The whole point of a pyramid system is that we do have a link up all the way from the top flight down to amateur football.  While things are still taking shape it obviously makes sense for amateur clubs to apply to the East of Scotland League, but once the dust has settled with the Juniors etc, it would be much easier to have a direct promotion/relegation link between the East of Scotland and the various amateur leagues in the region, rather than having to restructure the league on an annual basis depending on how many amateur teams have applied.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

The whole point of a pyramid system is that we do have a link up all the way from the top flight down to amateur football.  While things are still taking shape it obviously makes sense for amateur clubs to apply to the East of Scotland League, but once the dust has settled with the Juniors etc, it would be much easier to have a direct promotion/relegation link between the East of Scotland and the various amateur leagues in the region, rather than having to restructure the league on an annual basis depending on how many amateur teams have applied.

I'd been rewriting that a couple of times and 'Once' was meant to be 'Until'.

Edited July 11, 2018 by FairWeatherFan

[Marten]

If all the remaining south of Tay juniors move over, there will be 59 clubs. That can then be split into a 16 team Premier, 16 team First Division and 2 regionalised Second Divisions, meaning there are 5 spots left for amateurs to make it to a 64 team structure. Once that's been achieved, I think it does make sense to link up with the amateur leagues, possibly in the same way as promotion/relegation is done between tiers 10 and 11 in England (tier 11 is effectively a collection of amateur leagues that have at some point been put at tier 11 in the pyramid). Down there, tier 11 clubs have to indicate by a certain date whether or not they want to make the step up to tier 10. The teams that want to get promoted will (providing they match the requirements) fill the promotion spots in the order of how high they finished. If there are fewer eligible teams wanting to get promoted than relegated teams from tier 10, one or more relegated teams will get reprieved.

There is no reason why something like that can't work in the East of Scotland.

[patriot1]

9 minutes ago, Marten said:

If all the remaining south of Tay juniors move over, there will be 59 clubs. That can then be split into a 16 team Premier, 16 team First Division and 2 regionalised Second Divisions, meaning there are 5 spots left for amateurs to make it to a 64 team structure. Once that's been achieved, I think it does make sense to link up with the amateur leagues, possibly in the same way as promotion/relegation is done between tiers 10 and 11 in England (tier 11 is effectively a collection of amateur leagues that have at some point been put at tier 11 in the pyramid). Down there, tier 11 clubs have to indicate by a certain date whether or not they want to make the step up to tier 10. The teams that want to get promoted will (providing they match the requirements) fill the promotion spots in the order of how high they finished. If there are fewer eligible teams wanting to get promoted than relegated teams from tier 10, one or more relegated teams will get reprieved.

There is no reason why something like that can't work in the East of Scotland.

So if a professional team is relegated from tier 10 into an amateur division in tier 11 will they have to become an amateur side?

[Marten]

1 minute ago, patriot1 said:

So if a professional team is relegated from tier 10 into an amateur division in tier 11 will they have to become an amateur side?

There are few professional sides in tier 10, if any. And in a new tier 8 over here, I highly doubt the clubs there will be very professional.

[patriot1]

7 minutes ago, Marten said:

There are few professional sides in tier 10, if any. And in a new tier 8 over here, I highly doubt the clubs there will be very professional.

I appreciate there may be some teams in the Lower reaches of the pyramid and juniors who don't pay wages but if the amateurs join the pyramid en masse at some point you are going to have teams that pay their players directly above amateur divisions. So what happens if a professional side is relegated to an amateur league?

For me there should be no more labels within the pyramid. Senior, junior, amateur should all go. We're all football teams. If some clubs don't want to pay players so be it but they don't need their own leagues. Those who want to remain in their own labelled set ups should do so out with the pyramid.

[Marten]

7 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

I appreciate there may be some teams in the Lower reaches of the pyramid and juniors who don't pay wages but if the amateurs join the pyramid en masse at some point you are going to have teams that pay their players directly above amateur divisions. So what happens if a professional side is relegated to an amateur league?

For me there should be no more labels within the pyramid. Senior, junior, amateur should all go. We're all football teams. If some clubs don't want to pay players so be it but they don't need their own leagues. Those who want to remain in their own labelled set ups should do so out with the pyramid.

I agree in getting rid of the labels altogether. I think that's what they've done in England, so in theory a tier 11 club can pay their players if they wish.

[Burnie_man]

You also have dual contracts in England, where players can turn out for eg a tier 9 club and also play for a tier 6 club.  Not sure how exactly it works but there was one striker last season or the season before who scored two hattricks on the same day for different clubs.

[Jeek]

You also have dual contracts in England, where players can turn out for eg a tier 9 club and also play for a tier 6 club.  Not sure how exactly it works but there was one striker last season or the season before who scored two hattricks on the same day for different clubs.

There's not much to it, just duel registered. We have a guy (tier 12) who also plays for Yate at tier 8. Remember that down here reserve, 3rd and even 4th teams are the norm. So I'm signed in 2 separate league associations whilst playing for the same club.

 

Gets slightly more awkward at cups where you can play for the lower team and then the upper team, but not the other way round.

 

[Ginaro]

Quote

 `Bogus senior` fantasists ..

just chancers !! .. some clubs joining EoS

 calling themselves `senior` ..  who, just a few

weeks ago would have been a lowest level junior match.. and pure fantasy ... the term

`senior` was used to distinguish `full-member` SFA clubs from `junior` and lower grades. The

 leagues they occupy, apart from some in SJFA or SAFA .. are known as `senior` leagues ...

with nine local associations represented in

SFA. Full-members in EoS are .. Burntisland

Shipyard, Coldstream, Hawick.RA, Linlithgow

Rose, Lothian.Thistle.HV, Preston Athletic.

Clubs do not become `senior` just because

they play in a `senior league` ... they have

to become full-members of SFA. All these

`minor` juniors have done is change lanes ... they haven`t `stepped up`.. and never will. 

When SJFA join in 19-20 .. what are they ?

Can they be `bogus seniors` too .. ?

Clubs calling themselves senior not going down well with the basement dweller that is Pyramid News

Edited July 13, 2018 by Ginaro

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

 `Bogus senior` fantasists .. just chancers !! .. some clubs joining EoS  calling themselves `senior` ..  who, just a few weeks ago would have been a lowest level junior match.. and pure fantasy ... the term `senior` was used to distinguish `full-member` SFA clubs from `junior` and lower grades. The  leagues they occupy, apart from some in SJFA or SAFA .. are known as `senior` leagues ... with nine local associations represented in SFA. Full-members in EoS are .. Burntisland Shipyard, Coldstream, Hawick.RA, Linlithgow Rose, Lothian.Thistle.HV, Preston Athletic. Clubs do not become `senior` just because they play in a `senior league` ... they have to become full-members of SFA. All these `minor` juniors have done is change lanes ... they haven`t `stepped up`.. and never will.  When SJFA join in 19-20 .. what are they ? Can they be `bogus seniors` too .. ?

Clubs calling themselves senior not going down well with the basement dweller that is Pyramid News

? Nothing there but blank space for me?

[Burnie_man]

22 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Clubs calling themselves senior not going down well with the basement dweller that is Pyramid News

Pete Smyth is a lunatic and best ignored.

[HibeeJibee]

What are they, if they aren't seniors? They're not juniors or amateurs .

Tbf he should go into a clubhouse at Eyemouth, Peebles, or wherever and tell the players, committee and supporters they aren't seniors and haven't been for generations (or ever in the case of some others): their reaction would rapidly dispel his confusion, likely before he got on to calling them "chancers" or "fantasists" .

[Jeek]

To show that all pyramids (football) evolve over time;

http://toolstationleague.com

*You have to scroll down past the fixtures and tables.

[FairWeatherFan]

I see St. Bernard's have folded. If they were the amateur team that applied for the EoS and told to re-apply next year, it's quite the sliding doors moment. I'd guess acceptance into the EoS would of attracted extra interest to keep them going this year.