old speckled hen Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 On 03/06/2017 at 09:51, stanley said: Off to the juniors? They've entered a team in the Lowland u20's league 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 2 hours ago, old speckled hen said: I thought Duns might have been back since they are doing all that work on their ground but apparently they hope to be back after one more season of absence. Heard ages ago Duns weren't going back in. Heard players were sounded out, but with no interest in a return to EOS. For the facilities hopefully things change for next season 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non_sequitur Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 1 hour ago, old speckled hen said: They've entered a team in the Lowland u20's league aye a guid idea but still stuck in this pishy league, kelty disnae change anything as they wulnae be here long. could have replaced them in the juniors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionel hutz Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 So is it just Kelty that are making the jump for 17/18? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surely not! Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 So is it just Kelty that are making the jump for 17/18? Given the first set of fixtures were released last night, it would seem so 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Will be interesting to see how next year goes if my numbers are right. HFL - 18 (at capacity unless SPFL relegation) Lowland League - 16 (going to stay the same regardless) SoSFL - 16 (might only accept new members if they're forced to because of Lowland League relegation) EoSFL -13 (might be the only pyramid league accepting members from outside the current structure. And even more East of Scotland clubs isn't going to change what we have) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tynie1874 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Too many cups, but not enough league teams and league games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 On 2017/06/09 at 22:41, FairWeatherFan said: Will be interesting to see how next year goes if my numbers are right. HFL - 18 (at capacity unless SPFL relegation) Lowland League - 16 (going to stay the same regardless) SoSFL - 16 (might only accept new members if they're forced to because of Lowland League relegation) EoSFL -13 (might be the only pyramid league accepting members from outside the current structure. And even more East of Scotland clubs isn't going to change what we have) Sounds like there are big changes coming in 2018/19 if the colt teams proposal goes through and that's the way that the SFA will be able to restructure all of this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, tynie1874 said: Too many cups, but not enough league teams and league games. Premiership clubs play 38 league games + 3 cups (if you include the clubs in Europe) of which 1 has a groupstage (except for the clubs in Europe)... Championship, SPFL1 and SPFL2 clubs play 34 league games + 3 cups of which 1 has a groupstage. Highland League clubs play 34 league games + 4 cups. Lowland League clubs play 30 league games + 4 cups. EOS League clubs play 24 league games + 5 cups of which 1 has a groupstage. However few EOSL clubs progress in the Scottish, South Challenge or EOS Qualifying cups... the season ends later... and there are fewer league games. Where "pressure" exists is SOSL with 30 league games + 8 cups . Beyond that any excess only occurs in unusual cases... for example Burntisland and maybe Kelty playing the Fife Cup in parallel, or an EOSL team qualifying for the EOS Cup like LTHV did. Even then the Fife and EOS cups are played midweek plus it's unusual for a non-league club to progress a round. Burntisland has barely ever won a tie. Kelty have moved from East Juniors with 30 league games + 3 cups + Scottish Cup (if qualify) to EOSL with 26-27 league/QL games + 4 cups (if qualify from QL section) + Scottish Cup. Similar. Edited June 11, 2017 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: Sounds like there are big changes coming in 2018/19 if the colt teams proposal goes through and that's the way that the SFA will be able to restructure all of this. You'd like to think so. My concern with colt teams eventually displacing SPFL clubs is more of a Trojan horse issue. While the League One & Two clubs have a limited say in the running of the SPFL, at least they have that voice. Chip away at it over the years, and the SPFL no longer has to consider a 42 club solution for things. Hypothetically it could just be 38 clubs voting on matters. This issue also extends to prize money. Reserve teams become a little more cost effective if they start getting prize money from SPFL competitions. Hiring out someone else's ground for a season certainly becomes a lot cheaper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dredger Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I don't think many SPFL clubs who may enter colt teams would be able to afford a successful 2nd team, Celtic maybe Rangers chasing Celtic would be an exception. I think most would be happy for their young players to gain experience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 This issue also extends to prize money. Reserve teams become a little more cost effective if they start getting prize money from SPFL competitions. Hiring out someone else's ground for a season certainly becomes a lot cheaper. For teams to enter a b team cost is not an issue.They are paying these players currently, playing them in a national league with many(maybe even the majority?) playing out of other clubs grounds anyway .There are many reasons to be against colt teams, the cost to sides running them isn't one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 14 minutes ago, parsforlife said: For teams to enter a b team cost is not an issue. They are paying these players currently, playing them in a national league with many(maybe even the majority?) playing out of other clubs grounds anyway . There are many reasons to be against colt teams, the cost to sides running them isn't one. This is true, just look at Stranraer and Annan running their reserves in the SoS. Or even when the likes Annan and Dalbeattie ran a team in both EoS & SoS. The more obvious issue with prize money is the flip side. Prize money going to make the balance sheet a little nicer for some Premiership colt teams or keeping the likes of Montrose, Clyde etc alive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 7 hours ago, parsforlife said: For teams to enter a b team cost is not an issue. They are paying these players currently, playing them in a national league with many(maybe even the majority?) playing out of other clubs grounds anyway . There are many reasons to be against colt teams, the cost to sides running them isn't one. U20 games just now often kick off in the afternoon so no floodlight costs. They are often played in grounds where only one stand is open so reduced stewarding costs. There will be increased costs to running them and depending on the club's margins, it could be an issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Why would they need to have more than one stand open at League One and League Two level when clubs like East Fife play at that level with only one stand? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 10 hours ago, parsforlife said: For teams to enter a b team cost is not an issue. They are paying these players currently, playing them in a national league with many(maybe even the majority?) playing out of other clubs grounds anyway . There are many reasons to be against colt teams, the cost to sides running them isn't one. The suggestion is that only the OF would be able to enter clubs initially, with Aberdeen also maybe interested, due to the costs associated with running a full fledged second "club", to meet the demands set by the SPFL. There is also a suggestion they start at HL/LL level and not at the bottom of the Pyramid....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) ...which means they wouldn't have the costs associated with the demands set by the SPFL so something doesn't add up. Elsewhere online people are claiming that it's more than just the Old Firm, Hibs and Aberdeen. The only the Old Firm only angle made sense was when they were trying to shoehorn two teams into the bottom tier of the SPFL. That's not the case now. If you check out recent development league seasons you'll find that Rangers usually don't finish in the top two and that last season Ross County and Hamilton Accies finished ahead of Celtic. Edited June 12, 2017 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: ...which means they wouldn't have the costs associated with the demands set by the SPFL so something doesn't add up. Elsewhere online people are claiming that it's more than just the Old Firm, Hibs and Aberdeen. The only the Old Firm only angle made sense was when they were trying to shoehorn two teams into the bottom tier of the SPFL. That's not the case now. If you check out recent development league seasons you'll find that Rangers usually don't finish in the top two and that last season Ross County and Hamilton Accies finished ahead of Celtic. IF more clubs than those I quoted are interested, and think they can run them for little more cost than the current Development teams, then that's a game changer. The Pyramid would need to be reformed in order to accommodate increased interest. A lot of LL members wouldn't be happy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kefc Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: IF more clubs than those I quoted are interested, and think they can run them for little more cost than the current Development teams, then that's a game changer. The Pyramid would need to be reformed in order to accommodate increased interest. A lot of LL members wouldn't be happy. There would be some sort of trade off where LL would be given something in return on incorporating the Colt teams. More than likely be the automatic promotion place from LL. Theres a few things that could happen, LL might split to East West or could get extended to 18 teams. These are some of the changes to the non league structure that we thought could happen hence why we wanted to achieve our SFA Licence as quickly as possible so we are ready. Edited June 12, 2017 by kefc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: IF more clubs than those I quoted are interested, and think they can run them for little more cost than the current Development teams, then that's a game changer. The Pyramid would need to be reformed in order to accommodate increased interest. A lot of LL members wouldn't be happy. In the HL catchment, Ross County, ICT, Aberdeen, Dundee, Dundee United and St Johnstone (maybe need to double check where they are in relation to the mouth of the Tay) all have development teams. If they all joined the HL a split into two divisions and allowing access to clubs like Banks o Dee becomes easy to achieve. In the Lowland League area there are eleven clubs with development teams and if they all hopped aboard an east-west split is easy enough to do. That's not what is being rumoured though on other threads. Apparently the favoured option is another national dvision above the HL and LL but below League Two starting with four (?) colt teams and the HL and LL clubs that are most interested in progression to the SPFL and the carrot would be that promotion out of that division becomes automatic, while the club 42 vs the HL/LL playoff winner format would now be implemented at the bottom of this new division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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