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Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence


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1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

This is an extract from what you posted earlier:

The Dissolution and Calling of Parliament Act does the following:

Repeals the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011;

Revives the prerogative powers relating to the dissolution of Parliament, and the calling of a new Parliament. In doing so, the Act allows a Prime Minister to request a dissolution from the Sovereign which, if granted, would enable a Prime Minister to call a general election at a time of their choosing;

I have boldened the relevant bits as you are obviously struggling with them.

You do realise that in all these things the Queen has an entirely ceremonial role and the legislation reflects the fact that notionally it is the monarch which dissolves parliament and not actually the PM.  She will however do exactly as the PM asks her to do.

I think it's very obvious who's struggling here.

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2 minutes ago, Zern said:

Not really. SNP don't have a large enough contingent of MPs to begin forming a UK government.

... but in that circumstance Scottish voters would have had enough of an influence to affect which party formed the UK govt.

It's a fair point.

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4 minutes ago, Left Back said:

You do realise that in all these things the Queen has an entirely ceremonial role and the legislation reflects the fact that notionally it is the monarch which dissolves parliament and not actually the PM.  She will however do exactly as the PM asks her to do.

I think it's very obvious who's struggling here.

You asked me to point to legislation, I point to legislation, you then respond with opinion.  The wording in legislation is very precise for a reason, for example may rather than shall.

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1 minute ago, Hedgecutter said:

... but in that circumstance Scottish voters would have had enough of an influence to affect which party formed the UK govt.

It's a fair point.

It's not equivalent. The Tories and Labour realistically will be the two largest parties elected, so the choice is between those two blocs with some question over whether either would be popular enough to form a government on their own. In that circumstance the SNP, like the Lib-Dems, would not initiate anything, they could only wait for overtures from Labour or the Tories.

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2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

You asked me to point to legislation, I point to legislation, you then respond with opinion.  The wording in legislation is very precise for a reason, for example may rather than shall.

🤣

Face it.   you made a c**t of it saying the PM couldn't call an election without the backing of either his party or parliament.  You've been shown to be completely wrong but you're simply not willing to admit to the fact.  clinging onto a ceremonial role thinking the queen could actually block an election is some reach.

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Just now, Left Back said:

🤣

Face it.   you made a c**t of it saying the PM couldn't call an election without the backing of either his party or parliament.  You've been shown to be completely wrong but you're simply not willing to admit to the fact.  clinging onto a ceremonial role thinking the queen could actually block an election is some reach.

Maybe you can’t point to the legislation to back up that assertion.  Some that maybe says ‘demand’ rather than ‘request’ and doesn’t include the term ‘if granted’.  I look forward to reading it.

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6 minutes ago, Left Back said:

You do realise that in all these things the Queen has an entirely ceremonial role and the legislation reflects the fact that notionally it is the monarch which dissolves parliament and not actually the PM.  She will however do exactly as the PM asks her to do.

I think it's very obvious who's struggling here.

That went out of the window a bit when it turned out she went over proposed legislation and had her personal lawyers have anything changed that would affect her aversely.

I think it's fair to say that, if it didn't suit, when Boris got on the blower and told Buck House that he was coming down to ask for permission to throw an election, he'd be told to get back to work if he wanted any chance of that knighthood.

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22 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Maybe you can’t point to the legislation to back up that assertion.  Some that maybe says ‘demand’ rather than ‘request’ and doesn’t include the term ‘if granted’.  I look forward to reading it.

Absolutely right. The monarch has about the same "power" over a dissolution of Parliament as the current one has over the contents of "The Queen's Speech". 

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33 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Maybe you can’t point to the legislation to back up that assertion.  Some that maybe says ‘demand’ rather than ‘request’ and doesn’t include the term ‘if granted’.  I look forward to reading it.

The last time the monarch refused to carry out the wishes of the PM was in 1708.  She is bound to follow the advice and requests of the government under Royal Prerogative.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03861/

ETA that's why she prorogued parliament at Johnson's request, even though everyone knew he was explicitly trying to subvert parliament by proroguing it.  She had zero choice.

Edited by Left Back
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44 minutes ago, BFTD said:

That went out of the window a bit when it turned out she went over proposed legislation and had her personal lawyers have anything changed that would affect her aversely.

I think it's fair to say that, if it didn't suit, when Boris got on the blower and told Buck House that he was coming down to ask for permission to throw an election, he'd be told to get back to work if he wanted any chance of that knighthood.

Afraid not, as has already been demonstrated.

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22 minutes ago, Left Back said:

The last time the monarch refused to carry out the wishes of the PM was in 1708.  She is bound to follow the advice and requests of the government under Royal Prerogative.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03861/

ETA that's why she prorogued parliament at Johnson's request, even though everyone knew he was explicitly trying to subvert parliament by proroguing it.  She had zero choice.

You asked me to point to a piece of legislation, I did.  I ask you the same, you don’t.

ETA interesting article offering the view of a constitutional expert that supports my position.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/tom-swarbrick/queen-could-block-boris-johnson-calling-general-election/

 

Edited by Granny Danger
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6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

You asked me to point to a piece of legislation, I did.  I ask you the same, you don’t.

Are you now trying to claim that the constitution isn’t legislation? 🤣🤣🤣

I’m out.  Enjoy your night.

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3 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Afraid not, as has already been demonstrated.

Can't help but feel you're being dreadfully naïve here.

If Her Nibs had really not wanted parliament prorogued, for example, it would've been quashed without any of us even knowing about it, never mind the question being asked.

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11 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Are you now trying to claim that the constitution isn’t legislation? 🤣🤣🤣

I’m out.  Enjoy your night.

Yeah it’s a good time for you to quit.

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If the mop headed c**t calls a GE before the autumn I fear the Tories might just about inexplicably cling on. Starmer is still slightly hamstrung at the moment by having to play to the middle-England gallery and not go in fully swinging on issues of principle. (Durham Police could still trip him up yet, too) Any later than autumn though, and the toxic payload of energy bills/inflation/discontent/etc kicking in should surely kill them off, provided Lab/LD tactical voting works.

Would be really delicious if he called a snap poll and lost his seat, even more so if there's a 1997 style purge of all the worst pondlife in the cabinet as well. F**k the lot of them.

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1 hour ago, Zern said:

It's not equivalent. The Tories and Labour realistically will be the two largest parties elected, so the choice is between those two blocs with some question over whether either would be popular enough to form a government on their own. In that circumstance the SNP, like the Lib-Dems, would not initiate anything, they could only wait for overtures from Labour or the Tories.

Whether or not they'd have the power you describe there is irrelevant.  If they were to have any influence on govt formation after overtures from Labour or the Tories (as you put it) then that would back up the original point, which was:

... demonstrate that Scottish votes *do* matter at Westminster after all.

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8 minutes ago, Scorge said:

If the mop headed c**t calls a GE before the autumn I fear the Tories might just about inexplicably cling on. Starmer is still slightly hamstrung at the moment by having to play to the middle-England gallery and not go in fully swinging on issues of principle. (Durham Police could still trip him up yet, too) Any later than autumn though, and the toxic payload of energy bills/inflation/discontent/etc kicking in should surely kill them off, provided Lab/LD tactical voting works.

Would be really delicious if he called a snap poll and lost his seat, even more so if there's a 1997 style purge of all the worst pondlife in the cabinet as well. F**k the lot of them.

I have no idea what you’re basing that on.

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Just now, Granny Danger said:

I have no idea what you’re basing that on.

Combination of pessimism about large chunks of England, and George Carlin's quote about stupid people (deeply unscientific I know, but hey, we're all armchair guessers here).

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1 minute ago, Scorge said:

Combination of pessimism about large chunks of England, and George Carlin's quote about stupid people (deeply unscientific I know, but hey, we're all armchair guessers here).

We may indeed be ‘armchair guessers’ but there are opinion polls available that show the likely outcome of an election.

It’s all moot anyway, the Tories won’t call a GE given the size of their existing majority and boundary changes that will assist them don’t come into effect until mid 2023.

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Always worth bearing in mind that, even if he suffered a deeply humiliating election defeat, Boris will happily stagger on through his life of privilege, in a variety of fantastically-paid "jobs" that involve no work, doing literally whatever and whoever he fancies, until the inevitable knighthood and state funeral.

Maybe he'll even end up as a P&B hero in twenty years, as Michael Portillo seemed to.

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