Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[Albus Bulbasaur]

9 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

18 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

Nah. 
Labour are a Unionist party. Scotland favours remaining in the Union and Labour are doing well without having to change their stance. 
It's funny to see SNP/Indy supporters trying to attach their ideological identity issues onto something that's doing well and claiming that that's what people care about. 

Maybe, but Labour need to offer something different on the constitution or will never gain control ... FFA might be a start

Nah I don't think so.

Imagine a GE before next years proposed Autumn referendum, that would be a disaster for the SNP. What do they campaign on? They're already content on leaving the UK and say they have the way forward. If they even mention wanting the new WM government to give powers for a referendum that's their whole movement flushed down the pan. 

Labour won't give a S30 at any point for SNP support. If they need it Nicola will take whatever she can get and sell the soul of Indy, we all know she doesn't actually want a referendum anyway, I'm sure she'd love having some more cushy trips down to London.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Albus Bulbasaur

[BFTD]

If the SNP fancied losing support at Holyrood again, propping up a Westminster government determined to block the entire reason for the SNP's existence would be a cracking way to start.

Even if you're a fan of the whole "the SNP don't want independence" conspiracy theory, they've just had a recent example of what happens when a party completely dingies their policies for a tour of Downing Street.

[Dan Steele]

I might be wrong here, but is Sturgeon not on record as saying she would work with Labour (main office) to oust the Tories but Sarwar (branch) has often stated no deal with the SNP? This suggests to me she is more willing to topple the Tories than Labour.

Of course, it might just be the lure of trips to London that keeps her in politics.

[dirty dingus]

3 minutes ago, BFTD said:

If the SNP fancied losing support at Holyrood again, propping up a Westminster government determined to block the entire reason for the SNP's existence would be a cracking way to start.

Even if you're a fan of the whole "the SNP don't want independence" conspiracy theory, they've just had a recent example of what happens when a party completely dingies their policies for a tour of Downing Street.

Tories will get most seats in next GE but not enough for a majority. They will have a formal coalition with the LibDems and the usual unofficial one with the Bunfields. 

[BFTD]

5 minutes ago, The Skelpit Lug said:

I might be wrong here, but is Sturgeon not on record as saying she would work with Labour (main office) to oust the Tories but Sarwar (branch) has often stated no deal with the SNP? This suggests to me she is more willing to topple the Tories than Labour.

Of course, it might just be the lure of trips to London that keeps her in politics.

I know it's not a popular view, but I genuinely think that Labour would rather remain in opposition than be seen to work with the SNP, at least for the moment.

For one thing, if you're not in the asset stripping business, government is a poisoned chalice just now. They also know that the arse will drop right out of their support when it's reported in England that they're beholden to the Jocks, so they wouldn't be getting another term - they'd be in just long enough to get the blame for the ongoing economic shitshow that won't end in the foreseeable future. And that's before you get into the bitter face-spiting that comes from SLab, who'd be absolutely spitting feathers.

[Granny Danger]

13 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

Tories will get most seats in next GE but not enough for a majority. They will have a formal coalition with the LibDems and the usual unofficial one with the Bunfields. 

There is a decent chance the Tories will be the biggest party, there is zero chance the Lib Dems will support them formally or informally.

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, BFTD said:

I know it's not a popular view, but I genuinely think that Labour would rather remain in opposition than be seen to work with the SNP, at least for the moment.

For one thing, if you're not in the asset stripping business, government is a poisoned chalice just now. They also know that the arse will drop right out of their support when it's reported in England that they're beholden to the Jocks, so they wouldn't be getting another term - they'd be in just long enough to get the blame for the ongoing economic shitshow that won't end in the foreseeable future. And that's before you get into the bitter face-spiting that comes from SLab, who'd be absolutely spitting feathers.

Maybe so but if the numbers stack up they would have no option.

[Zern]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

There is a decent chance the Tories will be the biggest party, there is zero chance the Lib Dems will support them formally or informally.

Expecting the party of negotiable virtue to hold to a position? There's a first time for everything i suppose.

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Zern said:

Expecting the party of negotiable virtue to hold to a position? There's a first time for everything i suppose.

No I think it’s purely self interest.  Their involvement in the coalition was very damaging, another go would cause their party to implode.

Bear in mind the changed political landscape too, Cameron was seen as a moderate compared to the 2020s Tories.

[Highlandmagar]

10 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

There is a decent chance the Tories will be the biggest party, there is zero chance the Lib Dems will support them formally or informally.

Lib Dems would probably go in with the Tories on the premise that Johnson isn't PM.

[dirty dingus]

Just now, Zern said:

Expecting the party of negotiable virtue to hold to a position? There's a first time for everything i suppose.

Once the Tories get rid of Bozo and put in a a Truss, Mordaunt or Hunt the Libs will drop their pants for a vote on rejoining the single market and an increase on the price of polly bags from 20p to £300 per bag. 

[Zern]

11 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

Absolute Copium trying to shoehorn the Tartan Tories into our likely new Lab/LibDem government. 

I realise Labour being in power torpedoes the Indy perpetual Tory argument and therefore some people are sad to see it happen but it's definitely one of the better options considering where we are. 

I think the mathematics of the situation are not in favour of the Lib Dems being quite so influential. They will gain seats, but nowhere near the numbers of MPs that SNP will command so it lessens the Libdems impact as kingmaker. If Labour do have enough numbers to get the majority with the Libdems, i have no doubt that they will form a coalition government.

It is the situation where they do not have enough to gain the majority with Lib/Lab or Lib/Con that is where the SNP can wring concessions, and that could occur without entering a coalition. Confidence and supply, getting concession at every vote needing passed.

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

No I think it’s purely self interest.  Their involvement in the coalition was very damaging, another go would cause their party to implode.

Bear in mind the changed political landscape too, Cameron was seen as a moderate compared to the 2020s Tories.

The Lib Dems still have nothing to lose; they're as well to cosy up to whoever will give them some seats at the cabinet table. Unless they're complete idiots, they'll be well aware that they're the overflow party for people temporarily dissatisfied with the Conservatives. They're never getting widespread support within the lifetime of its current members.

They'll always play the "moderating influence" card while their leaders happily clear up the career-enhancing crumbs from cabinet table.

[Granny Danger]

26 minutes ago, BFTD said:

The Lib Dems still have nothing to lose; they're as well to cosy up to whoever will give them some seats at the cabinet table. Unless they're complete idiots, they'll be well aware that they're the overflow party for people temporarily dissatisfied with the Conservatives. They're never getting widespread support within the lifetime of its current members.

They'll always play the "moderating influence" card while their leaders happily clear up the career-enhancing crumbs from cabinet table.

You’re analysis in that first part is so wrong it’s frightening.

[BFTD]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

You’re analysis in that first part is so wrong it’s frightening.

You could've just explained why rather than making me ask.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

The Lib Dem vote is packed with middle-class wankers who would simply vote Tory again if the Lib Dems ceased to exist tomorrow. I'd imagine their genuine anti-Tory supporters deserted them after the Clegg clusterfuck and haven't returned. If they have an opportunity for relevance in a coalition they'll take it, no matter who it's with. Surely no one believes that the handful of their MPs would get ministerial jobs under a Tory government, then into the Lords/Directorships etc are going to give a single f**k that the party would be back to political irrelevance again for a decade or two? 

 

[sparky88]

13 hours ago, Zern said:

Why would they do that? If their demands are not met, f**k Labour. The SNP don't need to do anything as Labour are the ones (in this hypothetical) whose need is greater.

Labour would have NS in Johnson's pocket in every subsequent election leaflet. 

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, Day of the Lords said:

The Lib Dem vote is packed with middle-class wankers who would simply vote Tory again if the Lib Dems ceased to exist tomorrow. I'd imagine their genuine anti-Tory supporters deserted them after the Clegg clusterfuck and haven't returned. If they have an opportunity for relevance in a coalition they'll take it, no matter who it's with. Surely no one believes that the handful of their MPs would get ministerial jobs under a Tory government, then into the Lords/Directorships etc are going to give a single f**k that the party would be back to political irrelevance again for a decade or two? 

Back to political irrelevance? They've been irrelevant since sooking up to David Owen.

They were even irrelevant when invited into government.

[Zern]

4 minutes ago, sparky88 said:

Labour would have NS in Johnson's pocket in every subsequent election leaflet. 

Yeah, she's retiring at the end of the Scottish Parliament. But i do believe that there are some Labour are stupid enough to try that.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 minute ago, BFTD said:

Back to political irrelevance? They've been irrelevant since sooking up to David Owen.

They were even irrelevant when invited into government.

They are marginally more relevant now than they were post Clegg Coalition. Admittedly that's not a fucking high bar by any means