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Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence


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14 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

You state people hate the Tories but that’s not quite true and is likely to change even more.

Witness the situation in the Midlands and North of England where the Tories smashed Labour to pieces.

Labour, Liberals and SNP have all adopted ‘woke ‘policies which socially conservative traditional working class people don’t like.

Coupled with increasing labour rates for working and middle class workers due to labour shortages, the Tories could well be on the right track. 

I'm not sure social conservatism has much to do with it. The shift in the North of England was due to Brexit and perceived injustices around immigration and jobs - which is hardly a new tune, is it?

Yet attitudes to the EU are vastly different in Scotland, and perceptions of who gets blamed for social ills is also different.

Meanwhile, 'people get more conservative as they get older' is a hoary old cliche, especially as applied to 'social conservatism' - Well adjusted social liberals don't suddenly turn into homophobic bigots when they clock in over 40 years old. In fact it's more that the generations coming up after them have, at least over the previous half century been more Liberal than the preceding generation. Your views didn't change, its just that today's radical bleeding edge is tomorrow's established wisdom.

Take a hard line social conservative from today, and compare to someone who describes themselves that way 50 years ago and I bet the earlier generation of social conservative would scold the younger for his liberalism.

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18 minutes ago, renton said:

I'm not sure social conservatism has much to do with it. The shift in the North of England was due to Brexit and perceived injustices around immigration and jobs - which is hardly a new tune, is it?

Yet attitudes to the EU are vastly different in Scotland, and perceptions of who gets blamed for social ills is also different.

Meanwhile, 'people get more conservative as they get older' is a hoary old cliche, especially as applied to 'social conservatism' - Well adjusted social liberals don't suddenly turn into homophobic bigots when they clock in over 40 years old. In fact it's more that the generations coming up after them have, at least over the previous half century been more Liberal than the preceding generation. Your views didn't change, its just that today's radical bleeding edge is tomorrow's established wisdom.

Take a hard line social conservative from today, and compare to someone who describes themselves that way 50 years ago and I bet the earlier generation of social conservative would scold the younger for his liberalism.

You make some fair points about social conservatism vis a vis today and 50years ago but you acknowledge that a lot of the Brexit votes were about immigration. My points about labour rates rocketing (witness the problem regarding the triple lock on pensions) is mainly due to Eastern European workers returning to their homelands is exactly what working and middle class workers were looking for along with UK small trades businesses. So, to that extent, the Tories are on to a winner

 

.Regarding Scotland voting Remain, a lot of it was loyalty to the SNP.

Anyway, thanks for a reasoned argument. Makes a change on here.

 

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1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Where is it wrong?

Quote

When Mo Johnston was signed by Graeme Souness in 1989, becoming the first openly Catholic player for Rangers since World War One, he was welcomed with open arms by Rangers fans.

Was he f**k

 

That's all I can be bothered pointing out to you

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4 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Where is it wrong?

It claims that Mark Walters was "the first high profile black player in Scottish football". Would that be the same Mark Walters who recently fronted a documentary about Andrew Watson?

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Andrew Watson Footballer (cropped).jpg

Watson captained Scotland to a 6-1 defeat of England in London. That's still England's record home defeat. He never played for Rangers though.

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1 hour ago, lichtgilphead said:

It claims that Mark Walters was "the first high profile black player in Scottish football". Would that be the same Mark Walters who recently fronted a documentary about Andrew Watson?

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Andrew Watson Footballer (cropped).jpg

Watson captained Scotland to a 6-1 defeat of England in London. That's still England's record home defeat. He never played for Rangers though.

I can’t imagine anyone on here has even heard of Andrew Watson.

The uncomfortable reality of Mark Walter’s arrival was, that it exposed the fans of other clubs as being as intolerant as the Rangers fans. A fact no doubt overlooked by those cited in Murdo Fraser’s article.

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8 minutes ago, Glen Sannox said:

I can’t imagine anyone on here has even heard of Andrew Watson.

Well, I have, obviously, so your ridiculous assumption is immediately proved to be incorrect.

A quick search of Pie & Bovril shows that Watson has previously been mentioned in posts by @HibeeJibee, @qpsnapper, @tamthebam, @Le Tout P'ti FC, @Tynierose, @Hamish, @dogmc, @Jmurph, @John Lambies Doos, @Dryhorce, @Ken Fitlike, @scotzine, @MarvMarvSuperMarv, and @Waspie

I'm sure that many others will be aware of Watson, even though they've never mentioned him on here. 

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15 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

One of Scottish football's lowlights in the late 80s was Rangers fans instantly forgetting about how awful racism was the second Celtic signed Paul Elliott.
 

A delightful bit of good old Scottish whataboutery.

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9 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Well, I have, obviously, so your ridiculous assumption is immediately proved to be incorrect.

A quick search of Pie & Bovril shows that Watson has previously been mentioned in posts by @HibeeJibee, @qpsnapper, @tamthebam, @Le Tout P'ti FC, @Tynierose, @Hamish, @dogmc, @Jmurph, @John Lambies Doos, @Dryhorce, @Ken Fitlike, @scotzine, @MarvMarvSuperMarv, and @Waspie

I'm sure that many others will be aware of Watson, even though they've never mentioned him on here. 

Forgive me, I wasn’t aware of him. Nice to see so many others were. I’m sure the “civic and joyous” welcomed him with open arms, unless of course, the poor soul was born in England.

Cue, some of my best friends are English!

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