John Lambies Doos Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Its no great surprise to see support dipping, im still very much pro-independence but im pretty sure i wont be voting SNP in may for a variety of reasons all covered before. That said quite a lot of folks equate independence with the SNP and given the Salmond stuff and the mess of the pandemic i can see why people have lost faith. Always enjoyed your posts defo one of the gid guys on here, but I just don't understand your logic. The SNP will split after Independence into a new spectrum of parties - tbh it's only independence that's currently holding much of it together. I will most certainly be voting for them and it's the only mechanism we have to get indy 2... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Go and take an absolute fcuk to yourself. Why would anyone vote for a party that has continually screwed up, yes indy is important to me, but a properly functioning and competent government not led by charlatans like Humza, Swinney and the rest is also important. Absolutely typical on here that you can’t criticise the SNP without being accused of supporting the tories. Abuse isn't criticism -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I still think if there is a referendum within the next two years that the pro indy side will win. Yes but the point is the SNP are the only realistic option for delivering a referendum to the people. A vote for anyone else at this moment in time is almost certainly going to play into the hands of the Tories.All very well thinking we’ll win a referendum but we need to actually get the referendum in the first place! The best way to do that is to return an SNP majority. Anything less will be spun by the unionist media/Tories/other yoon parties as a drop in support for independence. This is the reality. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 This is like the DMZ zone in Korea. My side is the South and we're happy to have ICR, you guys are the North and you're trying to shoot on sight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: Always enjoyed your posts defo one of the gid guys on here, but I just don't understand your logic. The SNP will split after Independence into a new spectrum of parties - tbh it's only independence that's currently holding much of it together. I will most certainly be voting for them and it's the only mechanism we have to get indy 2... 4 minutes ago, Pato said: Because that's the end result? It's not ideal and you've laid out your criticisms of the SNP perfectly lucidly in the past, but the reality is that's the two options. But largely speaking I dont believe that they will deliver an indy ref and for me its also vitally important to have a party which can competently govern the country in power, regardless of the opposition im not prepared to vote for a party which has such incompetent people in leading cabinet positions, has made a mess of the pandemic handling, didnt properly plan for the pandemic in the first place, hasnt given any clear indication as to how it plans to move on and ultimately is a party which I find myself at odds at ideologically on quite a lot of matters now with the exception of the constitutional question. I feel politically homeless and I’m just not comfortable voting for a party just because of peer pressure or the absence of an alternative. I dont particularly see that as an outrageous position to hold. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stormzy said: This is like the DMZ zone in Korea. My side is the South and we're happy to have ICR, you guys are the North and you're trying to shoot on sight. You can stop your shit stirring, im capable of fighting my own arguments. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 But largely speaking I dont believe that they will deliver an indy ref and for me its also vitally important to have a party which can competently govern the country in power, regardless of the opposition im not prepared to vote for a party which has such incompetent people in leading cabinet positions, has made a mess of the pandemic handling, didnt properly plan for the pandemic in the first place, hasnt given any clear indication as to how it plans to move on and ultimately is a party which I find myself at odds at ideologically on quite a lot of matters now with the exception of the constitutional question. I feel politically homeless and I’m just not comfortable voting for a party just because of peer pressure or the absence of an alternative. I dont particularly see that as an outrageous position to hold. It's a valid point, but tbh I'm unsure any other party would have done a better job. But I see your point, chuck the greens a vote then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Go and take an absolute fcuk to yourself. Why would anyone vote for a party that has continually screwed up, yes indy is important to me, but a properly functioning and competent government not led by charlatans like Humza, Swinney and the rest is also important. Absolutely typical on here that you can’t criticise the SNP without being accused of supporting the tories. You can absolutely criticise the SNP. I never for a moment suggested you couldn't. But good luck voting Yes in an Indy referendum - I hope you're alive to see it. I'm only pointing out the blindingly obvious consequences of your intentions. You'll definitely get competent govt as part of the UK framework ... If you believe that, I'll go and take an absolute f**k to myself and you can keep sprinkling fairy dust round your house. How any of us vote after indy will be interesting - it'll be great to have the choice. And you might not be politically homeless then. But if you believe Scottish Labour or Scottish Conservatives or a combination of those 2 will be more competent then fire away and elect them instead. It is what it is for now. Edited February 28, 2021 by HTG 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stormzy said: I very rarely do that tbf. I'm English born to a Scottish father and English mother and raised in Scotland since the age of 5, I'm English... British.... and some people call me Scottish, I like Scotland and want the best for Scotland and my local area, hence voting and supporting remaining in Britain. It staggers me that anyone that loves Scotland would want to do something so reckless because they're insecure about their identity, their "faith" and "muh ideologies" also the Borders region should not be taken out of Britain against it's will, going by some of the smooth brain logic you find on here then it would be undemocratic to do so. Again I'll take it. Correct, those would be daft reasons to desire Independence, especially when there are a million and one other far more pertinent and sane reasons to. As for the second bolded part, erm.... Edited February 28, 2021 by Boo Khaki 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: But largely speaking I dont believe that they will deliver an indy ref and for me its also vitally important to have a party which can competently govern the country in power, regardless of the opposition im not prepared to vote for a party which has such incompetent There has never been a flawless government of any country ever. 5 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: has made a mess of the pandemic handling, didnt properly plan for the pandemic in the first place, Planning for a pandemic is reserved to Westminster. It planned for an influenza pandemic. The Scottish Government fulfilled all of its obligations under the UK plan. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: 6 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: But largely speaking I dont believe that they will deliver an indy ref and for me its also vitally important to have a party which can competently govern the country in power, regardless of the opposition im not prepared to vote for a party which has such incompetent people in leading cabinet positions, has made a mess of the pandemic handling, didnt properly plan for the pandemic in the first place, hasnt given any clear indication as to how it plans to move on and ultimately is a party which I find myself at odds at ideologically on quite a lot of matters now with the exception of the constitutional question. I feel politically homeless and I’m just not comfortable voting for a party just because of peer pressure or the absence of an alternative. I dont particularly see that as an outrageous position to hold. It's a valid point, but tbh I'm unsure any other party would have done a better job. But I see your point, chuck the greens a vote then? Id be voting for Ross Greer and im pretty much so far removed from then ideologically (with the exception of some of their climate stuff and indy) that id feel more comfortable voting for the SNP. That said id much rather a centre left health and economic/slightly right justice minded party with a pro indy stance came to be. Like I said the SNP are pretty much a shoe in to win so i might vote for none of the above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: You can stop your shit stirring, im capable of fighting my own arguments. Me when ICR chooses to stay in the North 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: There has never been a flawless government of any country ever. Planning for a pandemic is reserved to Westminster. It planned for an influenza pandemic. The Scottish Government fulfilled all of its obligations under the UK plan. No it didnt, Ive already had this argument with you to a very considerable degree and shown the policy documents etc too. To suggest the Scottish Government fulfilled its obligations is utterly laughable, you’re a passionate guy and I respect you but im absolutely not having that. I get your passion and drive for indy may blind you to certain things but thats just completely false and misleading, if this was twitter you’d be getting one of those Donald Trump fake news warnings. Just now, Pato said: It's not outrageous but I think you're requiring something seismic to happen in a very short time to give you a pro independence party which meets your requirements and delivers independence in a manner of your liking. Making the assumption that's not going to happen and you're stuck with the moth eared SNP or Tory rule from England, who let's not forget are at this point quite openly running a kleptocracy no different from Hosni Mubarak's Egypt, and you still opt for something which helps out the latter, I'm not convinced you can portray this as an act of principle. Im sorry but it is entirely an act of principle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamamafegan Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Any independence supporter that wants a referendum delivered who isn’t voting SNP this May is shooting themselves in the foot. What are you hoping to achieve by not voting for them?I don’t think the sun shines out of the collective SNP arse but it’s the only way to secure a referendum. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Id be voting for Ross Greer and im pretty much so far removed from then ideologically (with the exception of some of their climate stuff and indy) that id feel more comfortable voting for the SNP. That said id much rather a centre left health and economic/slightly right justice minded party with a pro indy stance came to be. Like I said the SNP are pretty much a shoe in to win so i might vote for none of the above. Absolutely the SNP are a shoe in to win, but unfortunately not a shoe in for an overall majority. So either way we get an SNP Government, I'd rather have one with a much stronger Indy 2 mandate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Where was independence polling before the 2011 Holyrood election? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: No it didnt, Ive already had this argument with you to a very considerable degree and shown the policy documents etc too. To suggest the Scottish Government fulfilled its obligations is utterly laughable, you’re a passionate guy and I respect you but im absolutely not having that It's a fact. Planning for a pandemic is reserved. The documents you provided proved it, mate. The Scottish Government had to work within the UK plan, not independently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lurkst said: Where was independence polling before the 2011 Holyrood election? About 32% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 36 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: I still think if there is a referendum within the next two years that the pro indy side will win. 40 minutes ago, renton said: The previous survation poll was 51/49 Yes. This one is 50/50. The Sunday Mail are crowing about a 1 point swing. On a poll that has an error of +/- 3 points. The previous poll showed a probable statistical tie, and so does this one. There has almost certainly been a drop in Yes support since maybe the new year. I think enough polls now have shown that Yes isn't hitting the highs it was in Autumn. Part of that must be related to the ongoing imbroligio with Salmond. Part of it may well be the sense of crisis passing with Covid, and some of the soft vote ambling back towards the status quo. Having said that, we are now in a position where a statistical tie is a case for ringing Church bells amongst Unionist support. That reflects on a much changed picture regarding support for Indy. I'm not convinced a referendum is likely to take place in the near future because the UK Government simply won't allow for one and I can't see the courts ruling in favour of the Scottish government, but the big danger for the yes side is is a 50-50 result with the no side winning by just a few hundred votes. A second defeat would surely kill the issue for a very long time. For that reason I think Sturgeon would be wise to wait and see if the polls can get back out towards mid-to-high fifties support for independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Id be voting for Ross Greer and im pretty much so far removed from then ideologically (with the exception of some of their climate stuff and indy) that id feel more comfortable voting for the SNP. That said id much rather a centre left health and economic/slightly right justice minded party with a pro indy stance came to be. Like I said the SNP are pretty much a shoe in to win so i might vote for none of the above. Just out of interest, what sort of headline policies, beyond the constitutional question, would make you want to vote for a party? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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