Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[ICTJohnboy]

11 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Well first of all - Scotland democratically voted in 2014 to remain within the UK and the UK democratically - as a whole - voted to leave the EU in 2016. The majority for leaving was around 1.27million votes. The number of Scots who voted to leave the EU was 1.66m. Perhaps had the SNP campaigned harder to convince more Scots that remaining in the EU was important, instead of doing very little for fear of sharing an electoral platform with Conservative and Labour Remainers, perhaps Scotland could have swung the vote the other way. In any event, yes, Scots should accept the result of the democratic vote and get on with it. 

But regardless, to answer your question I prefer to use expert opinion on this and the Institute of Fiscal Studies has stated that it expects that regardless of whether the UK remains or leaves the EU the UK economy to continue to show steady growth. It states that the rate of growth outwith the EU will most likely be slower than had we remained in the EU, but that growth was still likely regardless. In other words we'll all be better off as opposed to be poorer regardless of the decision on the EU - just perhaps not quite as better off  as we might have been over the next few years. I think common sense and logic suggests that we've been feeling the impact of the 2016 Brexit vote ever since the results were announced, yet we have record numbers in work and wage inflation is above general inflation. 

 

Scotland voted to Remain in the UK given the assurance that was the only way we could remain part of the EU.

The fact remains we could all be in dire straits, if we exit the EU at the end of 2020 on a WTO basis. This would happen in the event of the UK and EU failing to agree a trade deal, and this could be more than a distinct possibility.

Low unemployment has much to do with the fact that 11,000 EU nationals have now left the UK since the referendum result.

Brexit has becoming an unmitigated disaster and can only get worse - and if there was to be a second referendum I suspect the vote to Remain in the EU (in Scotland) would be substantially higher than last time.

[welshbairn]

39 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

This escalated quickly.

Accusations of anti Semitism on p&b are new to me.

Should we have an enquiry?

"If you don't like it you can bugger off back to Africa/Pakistan/Russia/Israel" never comes across well.

[Malky3]

31 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Scotland voted to Remain in the UK given the assurance that was the only way we could remain part of the EU.

The fact remains we could all be in dire straits, if we exit the EU at the end of 2020 on a WTO basis. This would happen in the event of the UK and EU failing to agree a trade deal, and this could be more than a distinct possibility.

Low unemployment has much to do with the fact that 11,000 EU nationals have now left the UK since the referendum result.

Brexit has becoming an unmitigated disaster and can only get worse - and if there was to be a second referendum I suspect the vote to Remain in the EU (in Scotland) would be substantially higher than last time.

Haud on. 

Where is your evidence that the only reason Scots voted against Independence in 2014 was so we could stay in the EU? The fact is that had we left the UK in 2014 and followed the plan as outlined by the SNP in their White Paper we would have been in real dire straits - and I don't mean standing next to Makr Knoffler! I'd venture that the reason most Scots voted to stay on as part of the UK was quite simply because they - like me - did not believe that we'd be fiscally secure as an Independent nation. 

As for Brexit being an unmitigated disaster - really? Since 2016 the economy has continued to grow steadily. We've continued to see record levels of employment. Wage inflation has gone up significantly - most probably because of the loss of cheap labour coming from the EU. Inflation has remained low and steady. And interest rates continue to be at the lowest level ever which is great news for those of us who have mortgages, credit cards or bank loans. Brexit has been mishandled by MP's and our Parliament - a large proportion of which have been absolutely determined to frustrate the democratic vote that we had in 2016, mostly for their own personal aims. However far from being a disaster - mitigated or not - the world has continued to turn, business continues to thrive and we are all getting richer.  

I'll make a confident prediction here right now too. Feel free to hold on to it. I reckon that when we leave the EU we will initially trade with the EU on favourable terms whilst a trade agreement is drawn up. And I also predict that the UK economy, under a Conservative government, will continue to show steady and sustained growth, with low unemployment for many more years to come. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Malky3

[harry94]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

The UK Government has NEVER reduced the amount of money it spends. Year on year capital expenditure has risen across all government departments so what I have said is FACTUALLY SOUND!

You do realise that the value of money changes as well?

[John Lambies Doos]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1209075/Election-results-map-2019-oddschecker-majority-general-election

What's the breakdown of that?

[alta-pete]

12 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Haud on. 

Where is your evidence that the only reason Scots voted against Independence in 2014 was so we could stay in the EU? The fact is that had we left the UK in 2014 and followed the plan as outlined by the SNP in their White Paper we would have been in real dire straits - and I don't mean standing next to Makr Knoffler! I'd venture that the reason most Scots voted to stay on as part of the UK was quite simply because they - like me - did not believe that we'd be fiscally secure as an Independent nation. 

As for Brexit being an unmitigated disaster - really? Since 2016 the economy has continued to grow steadily. We've continued to see record levels of employment. Wage inflation has gone up significantly - most probably because of the loss of cheap labour coming from the EU. Inflation has remained low and steady. And interest rates continue to be at the lowest level ever which is great news for those of us who have mortgages, credit cards or bank loans. Brexit has been mishandled by MP's and our Parliament - a large proportion of which have been absolutely determined to frustrate the democratic vote that we had in 2016, mostly for their own personal aims. However far from being a disaster - mitigated or not - the world has continued to turn, business continues to thrive and we are all getting richer.  

I'll make a confident prediction here right now too. Feel free to hold on to it. I reckon that when we leave the EU we will initially trade with the EU on favourable terms whilst a trade agreement is drawn up. And I also predict that the UK economy, under a Conservative government, will continue to show steady and sustained growth, with low unemployment for many more years to come. 

Eh, maybe you haud oan a wee minute Malky.

I'm in business and the last year or so has been abject torture. I certainly ain't thriving and getting richer. As far as I can see - in my admittedly narrow scope -  no-one is making any major investment decisions until Brexit picks a direction to go off in. From a business owners perspective, I now just don't care - I want it resolved one way or another. The small crumb of comfort that I can take is that we had virtually the exact same situation in the run up to September 2014. And, funnily enough, once that issue was decided it was like someone had turned the lights back on and normal service resumed almost overnight.

The lack of clarity from the Labour Party, the denial of the result by the Lib Dems and the perma-obstructiveness of the SNP over the past year or so means Boris is the only one offering a clear direction. His super clean super green super car (or whatever it was he said) wanting to get going is a quite apt metaphor. Too much time has been spent agonising over the result. The genie is now out of the bottle and these characters need to find a way forward. Soon.  And as much as it'll likely pain the majority on here, the only way that is going to happen is a decent Tory majority. Then we can all get on with the thriving. 'Getting on with the day job' as it were...

[ICTJohnboy]

45 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

"If you don't like it you can bugger off back to Africa/Pakistan/Russia/Israel" never comes across well.

 

Even when many are threatening to bugger off back to wherever in the event of Corbyn becoming PM?

I know what the regulars at the Park Inn pub in Accrington would say if I threatened to bugger off back to Scotland if Johnson wins the election.

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/nearly-40-per-cent-of-british-jews-would-seriously-consider-emigrating-if-corbyn-became-pm-1.469270 

[JMDP]

2 hours ago, Malky3 said:

I answered your question. 

I have now reported you for your blatant trolling. Hopefully the moderators will take action this time. 

To be clear I am not a racist, nor a homophobe and voting Conservative does not make me one either. I have already stated that Boris Johnson is not someone I respect or support and I have outlined why I see the other parties and political leaders as similarly flawed in character and principle. I have also explained that the reason I am voting Conservative is because I trust them with the most important issue that affects us all. I trust them to run the economy well. 

Now take you hate filled hyperbole and muck spreading and go f**k off! 

Wow, that's some cranium detachment.

A fair load of intellectual dishonesty here. I'm happy to engage in anyone that argues in good faith. However, you continually lie, don't back up figures, troll and insult. Your posting is completely disingenuous and your faux outrage isn't fooling anyone.

You didn't answer the question. You straight out bottled it. I don't know why you are saying you aren't a racist or homophobe. I never said you were.

I simply posted a question. Time to answer it. Yes or no?

Supplementary: if you lived in uxbridge (my postal vote is for here), would you vote for Boris Johnson, the conservative candidate?

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, JMDP said:

Supplementary: if you lived in uxbridge (my postal vote is for here), would you vote for Boris Johnson, the conservative candidate?

Do you think there is a genuine chance of him losing?

[JMDP]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

Do you think there is a genuine chance of him losing?

I don't think so. I live abroad now so don't know what's going on as much there but lived there until two years ago. There is a big potential anti-Tory vote but its one of those comfortable outer london areas with lots of middle England type demographic that should see him win handily. 

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Do you think there is a genuine chance of him losing?

There is 0 chance.

Johnson & the Tories may not get a majority but there is zero chance of Corbyn getting in. Of the 4 main parties it’s the worst set of leaders I can ever remember, and voting Tory isn’t as bad as made out on here given the potential clusterfuck under Corbyn. Him and Sturgeon are flippy-floppy hypocrites and Swinson is a hilariously stupid woman. I’m not a fan at all of Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the like, but they’re winning this election. The fact everybody is so incompetent means I still haven’t decided who to vote for and the election is just round the corner.

[dorlomin]

2 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

There is 0 chance.

Johnson & the Tories may not get a majority but there is zero chance of Corbyn getting in.

 

IF

The SNP get 45ish seats and the undecideds decide to vote (most of them break Labour), then there is a reasonable (less than even) chance of a Labour minority government supported by SNP confidence and supply. 

That said there is at least an equal chance of a pro Brexit surge in the Midlands and North smashing Labour to 1982 levels. 

It all depends who turns up the angriest. 

[TONTROOPER]

12 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 

 voting Tory isn’t as bad as made out on here

 

So how are things on Mars these days...hmmm?

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

So how are things on Mars these days...hmmm?

 

I would have never voted Tory in my life, but I’m undecided right now. I’m fairly confident I don’t want Corbyn anywhere near power and Sturgeon has gone down in my estimations recently with her anti-democracy stance but we’ll have to see.

[Kejan]

36 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

3 hours ago, Malky3 said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1209075/Election-results-map-2019-oddschecker-majority-general-election

What's the breakdown of that?

Its the bookies 'favourites I think.

It'll be way off.

[welshbairn]

21 minutes ago, JMDP said:

I don't think so. I live abroad now so don't know what's going on as much there but lived there until two years ago. There is a big potential anti-Tory vote but its one of those comfortable outer london areas with lots of middle England type demographic that should see him win handily. 

Described as Kind Yuppies here. Sounds like if there is a defection from the Tories it would be to the Lib Dems over Brexit.

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Uxbridge and South Ruislip

[TONTROOPER]

11 minutes ago, Tarmo Kink said:

 

I would have never voted Tory in my life, but I’m undecided right now. I’m fairly confident I don’t want Corbyn anywhere near power and Sturgeon has gone down in my estimations recently with her anti-democracy stance but we’ll have to see.

What anti-democracy stance would that be?

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

What anti-democracy stance would that be?

Not wanting Brexit to go ahead, just like Swinson and Corbyn.

[John Lambies Doos]

 
I would have never voted Tory in my life, but I’m undecided right now. I’m fairly confident I don’t want Corbyn anywhere near power and Sturgeon has gone down in my estimations recently with her anti-democracy stance but we’ll have to see.

Why has sturgeon gone down in your estimations compared to the other leaders? Seems like you are saying you won't vote SNP as other current party leaders may be better?

[Sir Tarmo Kink]

Why has sturgeon gone down in your estimations compared to the other leaders? Seems like you are saying you won't vote SNP as other current party leaders may be better?

I never said compared to anyone, but there wasn’t much room for someone like Corbyn to go any lower to be honest.