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John Lambies Doos

Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

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Selling it as a "high wire balancing act" is, just like the other arguments, totally Tory. Which is odd given that Labour's position is exactly the same one Boris and Jacob Rees Mogg were pushing before the referendum. Been a bit of a different song from the Tories since Leave actually won. I wonder why that is.

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57 minutes ago, harry94 said:

What's the alternative then?

Coming from any position of logic, leaving the EU was economically and politically a bad thing and all the ERG efforts about magical Canadian trade deals and closed borders have been widely derided as economically illiterate by anybody reputable.

Corbyn is effectively saying to interlock economically and avoid these worst impacts. Even if you argue that it ruins the point of 'sovereignty' etc, that's immaterial as these things were magical concepts that didn't really exist anyway. There is no good Brexit, just versions which are less shit than their alternative in damaging our future growth and GDP.

Either, be honest like the Lib Dems and openly give the finger to the electorate because plebs don't know what's best for them. Or be a democrat and accept that, ultimately, the people are sovereign. And if the people have chosen an option which in the short term might leave the country with 5% less GDP ( nb not GDP per person) then tough - suck it up.  Decisions about whether or not to be in an economic/political/legal union are decisions of the heart. Otherwise you could just have had a panel of 100 economists do their forecasts and let their calculations decide! The same bollocks was used and will be used to rubbish Scottish independence aspirations.

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Well

 

 

For the moment the Conservative bounce in the polls is showing up across most polling companies. Survation now have a question related to the local candidate. 

As always, polling is not voting. It can only show changes in sentiment and estimates of how that sentiment will pan out on election day. But Labour have a mountain to climb and a host of long standing issues people have been point out for a while.

FWIW the last election had the Maybot, dementia tax and two terrorist attacks that likely harmed the Tory vote. Boris seems to have made sure he is getting a lot of noise on money for police, a plan for money for the NHS and an unambiguous plan for "Brexit" to sell. 

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There's no doubt that a Boris led election campaign is going to be more popular than a may-led one.

Corbyn is relying on a huge local movement and massive youth turnout. No real signs of it yet and again, am election at this time of year is not suited to that strategy.

I hope I'm wrong but Scottish independence being more likely is the only possible benefit to come out of this election.

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28 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

an unambiguous plan for "Brexit" to sell

One that would lead to either a border in the Irish sea or a hard one in Ireland, depending on whether we crash out on Dec 31st 2020 or not. But he might replace the police they sacked, and is chasing Labour's spending plans for the NHS. Whoopee!

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There's no doubt that a Boris led election campaign is going to be more popular than a may-led one.

Corbyn is relying on a huge local movement and massive youth turnout. No real signs of it yet and again, am election at this time of year is not suited to that strategy.

I hope I'm wrong but Scottish independence being more likely is the only possible benefit to come out of this election.
Scottish independence is what we should all be concerned about. Get us out of this fucking mess

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Scottish independence is what we should all be concerned about. Get us out of this fucking mess
I am, I am. But I'd prefer to avoid an economic meltdown in brexit and shafting of the poor across Britain. Labour are offering something more radical thank I've ever seen (and I feel pretty fucking old these days).

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1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

I am, I am. But I'd prefer to avoid an economic meltdown in brexit and shafting of the poor across Britain. Labour are offering something more radical thank I've ever seen (and I feel pretty fucking old these days).

It’s idiotic to think that we should ignore what is happening in the UK whilst we are still a member.

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1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:
2 hours ago, pandarilla said:
There's no doubt that a Boris led election campaign is going to be more popular than a may-led one.

Corbyn is relying on a huge local movement and massive youth turnout. No real signs of it yet and again, am election at this time of year is not suited to that strategy.

I hope I'm wrong but Scottish independence being more likely is the only possible benefit to come out of this election.

Scottish independence is what we should all be concerned about. Get us out of this fucking mess

Uh-huh. What we really need is a hard border between ourselves and England. Customs controls on the border. A £12.6Bn deficit. An aged work force incapable of meeting our pension commitments. Sterlingisation where the Bank of England dictates our economic policy. And an anti-democratic, authoritarian high taxation driven Scottish Government that run cover ups on disease riddled water being fed into cancer wards in Scottish NHS hospitals. 

At least it'll stop us all talking about the EU eh? 

Edited by Malky3

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Uh-huh. What we really need is a hard border between ourselves and England. Customs controls on the border. A £12.6Bn deficit. An aged work force incapable of meeting our pension commitments. Sterlingisation where the Bank of England dictates our economic policy. And an anti-democratic, authoritarian high taxation driven Scottish Government that run cover ups on disease riddled water being fed into cancer wards in Scottish NHS hospitals. 
At least it'll stop us all talking about the EU eh? 
The Bank of England currently dictates our economic policy you nuggett.

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3 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

 

Uh-huh. What we really need is a hard border between ourselves and England. Customs controls on the border. A £12.6Bn deficit. An aged work force incapable of meeting our pension commitments. Sterlingisation where the Bank of England dictates our economic policy. And an anti-democratic, authoritarian high taxation driven Scottish Government that run cover ups on disease riddled water being fed into cancer wards in Scottish NHS hospitals. 

At least it'll stop us all talking about the EU eh? 

As an independent nation we will be able to set Policies that will correct those issues.

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2 hours ago, pandarilla said:

Corbyn is relying on a huge local movement and massive youth turnout. No real signs of it yet and again, am election at this time of year is not suited to that strategy.

Why would the auld yins be more likely to crawl out to the polling stations in December than the youngsters? Not saying you're wrong, it just sounds odd.

Imagine there was a hard frost on the 12th and the percentage of kids voting dropped more than the pensioners. Bit of a minter.

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1 hour ago, Jute said:

As an independent nation we will be able to set Policies that will correct those issues.

Really? 

If the Nationalists are to be believed the EU would tell you whether or not you could drop the hard border and the EU will insist you hit their deficit targets of less than 3% of GDP and not the 7.5% that the Scottish economy currently sits at. And the Bank Of England will dictate your monetary policies - like telling you what your interest rates are, and what your borrowing limits will be and they'll be duty bound to run monetary policy for a Westminster government, not for the Scottish Government. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Really? 

If the Nationalists are to be believed the EU would tell you whether or not you could drop the hard border and the EU will insist you hit their deficit targets of less than 3% of GDP and not the 7.5% that the Scottish economy currently sits at. And the Bank Of England will dictate your monetary policies - like telling you what your interest rates are, and what your borrowing limits will be and they'll be duty bound to run monetary policy for a Westminster government, not for the Scottish Government. 

 

We will be just fine. Short-term (10 -15 years) disruption. But ultimately a happier more self-confident people once making our own decisions. As opposed to being like a sulky teenager blaming every thing on Dad/England. The border problems are surmountable. Those who want Scottish independence and have played along with all the concocted Irish border hysteria should blush at their hypocrisy.

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11 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

We will be just fine. Short-term (10 -15 years) disruption. But ultimately a happier more self-confident people once making our own decisions. As opposed to being like a sulky teenager blaming every thing on Dad/England. The border problems are surmountable. Those who want Scottish independence and have played along with all the concocted Irish border hysteria should blush at their hypocrisy.

I think the disruption will be longer term than that. Ireland got it's independence in 1922 and it took them to till well into the new millennia to sort their economy and as for sulking, it didn't stop the Irish. Their own PM says the Irish economy is hugely dependent on the UK economy and has stated many times over that a hard border between Ireland and the UK would be a disaster for his country, yet that's exactly what Scottish Nationalists want for us. I agree with you though about the banging hypocrisy of the Scottish Nationalist. It was in their best interests to get a Withdrawal Agreement done yet the party they vote for became one of the main protagonists. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

I think the disruption will be longer term than that. Ireland got it's independence in 1922 and it took them to till well into the new millennia to sort their economy and as for sulking, it didn't stop the Irish. Their own PM says the Irish economy is hugely dependent on the UK economy and has stated many times over that a hard border between Ireland and the UK would be a disaster for his country, yet that's exactly what Scottish Nationalists want for us. I agree with you though about the banging hypocrisy of the Scottish Nationalist. It was in their best interests to get a Withdrawal Agreement done yet the party they vote for became one of the main protagonists. 

 

Yes. But he doesn’t really believe there’s a need for a hard border, does he? The issue was just blown up to get the UK to drop Brexit or ditch Ulster. And, with help from Westminster, he’s had some success.

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40 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

Yes. But he doesn’t really believe there’s a need for a hard border, does he? The issue was just blown up to get the UK to drop Brexit or ditch Ulster. And, with help from Westminster, he’s had some success.

As far as I understood it neither the UK or Ireland governments want a hard border but the EU keeps insisting on it. 

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6 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

As far as I understood it neither the UK or Ireland governments want a hard border but the EU keeps insisting on it. 

You don't seem to comprehend....Ireland is part of the EU...……..gettit?

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14 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

As far as I understood it neither the UK or Ireland governments want a hard border but the EU keeps insisting on it. 

 

How can it be any other way if we're not in a customs union?

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