Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

Are there any actual Unionist posters on this subforum? The pisstake aliases are most amusing, but surely somebody genuinely believes in the Union and also follows Scottish football.

Guilty m'lord...

[G-MAN]

It doesn't! The SNPs best ever result was in 2015 when just under 50% of those who voted chose SNP. In 2016 they got 46% pf the Scottish vote. In 2017 they got less than 38% of the Scottish vote. And turnout in the Scottish Elections seldom gets above 50% whilst the General Elections draw 60% to 70% turnout. 

Given that the Unionist vote is split between three major parties whilst the SNP dominate the nationalist vote I suppose it could be suggested its remarkable the SNP doesn't do even better. 

 

 

 

2019.

 

Malky still thinks only those who vote SNP, vote for Independence.

 

Malky forgets that the electorate can vote for a Constituency MP of any Party, but can also support Independence.

 

Malky doesn’t realise some of the electorate who support Independence may not have a Political Party to vote for as they disagree with their policies, so don’t vote at all.

 

Malky doesn’t understand that some ex-SNP voters disagree with major policies (SelfID and GRA for example) so won’t vote for them at the moment. They may not have anyone else they feel they can vote for. But would vote Yes in an Indy Ref.

 

 

Malky - do you get it now ?

[Malky3]

1 minute ago, G-MAN said:

 

 

2019.

Malky still thinks only those who vote SNP, vote for Independence.

Malky forgets that the electorate can vote for a Constituency MP of any Party, but can also support Independence.

Malky doesn’t realise some of the electorate who support Independence may not have a Political Party to vote for as they disagree with their policies, so don’t vote at all.

Malky doesn’t understand that some ex-SNP voters disagree with major policies (SelfID and GRA for example) so won’t vote for them again. They may not have anyone else they feel they can vote for. But would vote Yes in an Indy Ref.


Malky - do you get it now ?

 

 

2019

G-MAN doesn't understand that at the last Independence Referendum 55% of those who voted didn't want to leave the UK. 

Perhaps one day G-MAN might grasp this - as might many of the other daft Scottish Nationalists. The 55% are heroes who saved Scotland. 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

This pair have completely jumped the shark now.

Absolutely determined to ruin every thread on this sub forum.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

You missed out the finding of unicorns and William Wallaces ghost. 

You better hope Scotland doesn't get independence cause you are going to be spectacularly disappointed. Your utopia isn't a shared vision. In the SNP White Paper for example far from bein pacifist Scotland was going to seek to join NATO. Your meritocrity wasn't the vision either. Scotland was retaining the monarchy. When it comes to democracy - well Holyrood is one of the few Parliaments anywhere in the world where someone rejected by their constituency can end up representing those who rejected them. Its utterly ridiculous. And then of course there is the fact that the Nationalist attitude to anyone who has a differing political opinion is to tell them to "f**k off elsewhere". 

If the GERs Report was discredited it would mean that the Scottish Government was reliant on Financial Advisors and Statisticians who were incompetent since they create the report. It would also expose Derek MacKay the Finance Minister who confirmed the GERs Report accurately reflected Scotlands Fiscal status. Take your pick I guess but I prefer to believe the experts and not the spin. The GERs Report is as accurate as it can be and its a true picture of Scotlands Fiscal position which begs the question - if you are planning to put all land back into public ownership where will the money come from? 

You accuse unionists of negativity yet its YOU who talk of Scotland being an economic basket case. I see Scotland as an important player in a strong union that is the 5th biggest economy in the world

Nevermind. Carry on dreaming. The 55% will keep Scotland safe! 

 

I'll try and be brief here.  Don't please transpose the SNP, the detail of their current policies and their people into a post-independence Scotland; instead, try and regard them as the wee plane which takes the glider airborne then lets it chart its own course.  I'm basically a Labour voter, and I would confidently expect an independent Scotland to have a left-of-centre Government with a cenrtre-right opposition  holding them to account. 

There's every chance that the SNP, which we should remember is basically an indepence movement, will over time disappear into the electoral ether, and probably quickly too.  And with it will go their White Papers, defence commitments, hopefully including Trident, and of course the attachment to the monarchy.  Future Scottish Governments would determine the course the nation would take, and as for the Gers Report, you've really not been watching, as for the nth time, this is an annual fiscal report predicated on the current constitutional arrangements.

Regarding negativity, you thoroughly misrepresent my original statement - the 'basket case' reference is a line which has been peddled ad nauseum by opponents of Scottish independence.  And where did I advocate all land being place d in public ownership ?

As for safety, well, almost every act of political violence and ugly civil unrest in the last five years in Scotland has been committed by aggressive defenders of the union.  Whilst abhorring it, I inwardly take some malicious heart too, as there is no greater advert for the poverty of argument and desperation of the Scottish unionist camp.

[BILmac1967]

3 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

Are there any actual Unionist posters on this subforum? The pisstake aliases are most amusing, but surely somebody genuinely believes in the Union and also follows Scottish football.

Idon't think I could have made all of these points and not be genuine. 

I don't get your point about football, the top league has been much of a muchness for a couple of decades now, at least. Apart from the original Rangers going bust there's been little to speak of, the football part of this forum could write itself, i'm just being honest.

Don't worry, i'll soon get bored and find a whole other forum. This one is probably the best, though.

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I'll try and be brief here.  Don't please transpose the SNP, the detail of their current policies and their people into a post-independence Scotland; instead, try and regard them as the wee plane which takes the glider airborne then lets it chart its own course.  I'm basically a Labour voter, and I would confidently expect an independent Scotland to have a left-of-centre Government with a cenrtre-right opposition  holding them to account. 

There's every chance that the SNP, which we should remember is basically an indepence movement, will over time disappear into the electoral ether, and probably quickly too.  And with it will go their White Papers, defence commitments, hopefully including Trident, and of course the attachment to the monarchy.  Future Scottish Governments would determine the course the nation would take, and as for the Gers Report, you've really not been watching, as for the nth time, this is an annual fiscal report predicated on the current constitutional arrangements.

Regarding negativity, you thoroughly misrepresent my original statement - the 'basket case' reference is a line which has been peddled ad nauseum by opponents of Scottish independence.  And where did I advocate all land being place d in public ownership ?

As for safety, well, almost every act of political violence and ugly civil unrest in the last five years in Scotland has been committed by aggressive defenders of the union.  Whilst abhorring it, I inwardly take some malicious heart too, as there is no greater advert for the poverty of argument and desperation of the Scottish unionist camp.

The GERs Report - I agree - is predicated on the current constitutional arrangements. I have said that all along. The prosperity and wealth of London, the South East and the East of England is shared out around the rest of the regions. Scotland, thanks to the generosity of the Barnett Formula receives disproportionately more and we do incredibly well from it. Indeed, as the GERs Report shows we spend £12.6Bn more per annum than our country raises in tax revenues. That is absolutely down to the current constitutional arrangements. I keep asking Nationalists what they would cut in an Independent Scotland to balance the books - and if they don't wish to cut anything how much extra tax would Scots be forced to pay in this new utopia. I've yet to have an answer, but perhaps you'll have a go. Please detail what you would cut and how much that would save in order to balance the books. 

Your dream that the SNP, having delivered Scottish Independence, will disappear into the ether allowing an old political order to re-emerge simply isn't realistic. Sinn Fein didn't disappear after the partition of Ireland. The ANC didn't disappear after the release of Nelson Mandela and the end of apartheid and Zanu-PF didn't disappear after the overthrowing or Robert Smiths Rhodesian government in 1979. In the same way the SNP and all those politicians enjoying their fame and their trousering of parliamentary expenses aren't about to pack up and walk away especially not if they have just realised their lifelong single issue ambition. Instead I see the SNP still touting their grievance based politics no doubt claiming that Westminster are to blame for the extreme austerity being imposed on the Scottish people from the loss of the revenue we've been enjoying through the Barnett Formula. 

I have never regarded my country to be a basket case and I doubt many other Scottish Unionists would either. The fact is that within the United Kingdom we do extremely well financially and punch well above our weight globally. Christ even the Nationalists desperate to prove there are some really impoverished Scots amongst us struggle to cite decent examples - a guy wearing trainers instead of Rigger boots! FFS! What I don't want to see is my country throw all of that away on a promise of pots of gold over the rainbow, unicorns sprinkling magic dust on every household, and a heinous bunch of tartan trouser wearing snake oil salesmen promising record oil revenues just as the price of oil suffers a global collapse. 

The nationalists need to produce hard facts, and clear, honest and unequivocal figures - stop trying to deceive your fellow Scots and tell us honestly what the cost of Scottish Independence, political uncertainty and instability really will be. Let us weigh it up against the status quo and have a real debate about it - instead of screaming "quisling" and "traitor" at anyone who doesn't believe the Scottish Independence movements claims. Then you might have a chance of realising your dreams. Until then 55% said No - and I salute every single one of us for saving Scotland. 

 

[BILmac1967]

2 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

This pair have completely jumped the shark now.

Absolutely determined to ruin every thread on this sub forum.

Thread, sub-forum, whatever. I thought the whole point of this was to have a debate, I didn't realise it was a love-in. I only intended to make a couple of posts but people wouldn't stop responding.

[Baxter Parp]

5 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

This pair have completely jumped the shark now.

Absolutely determined to ruin every thread on this sub forum.

Hint:

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Hint:

Me too.  Unfortunately there's a number of sad tossers who keep quoting/responding to them.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Me too.  Unfortunately there's a number of sad tossers who keep quoting/responding to them.

Tosser undoubtedly Granny, but not too sad.

[Malky3]

8 hours ago, BILmac1967 said:

Thread, sub-forum, whatever. I thought the whole point of this was to have a debate, I didn't realise it was a love-in. I only intended to make a couple of posts but people wouldn't stop responding.

Nationalists don't like debate and they don't like to read criticism of their cause. The reason is obvious. They cannot put up a fact based argument because they haven't been given one. 

All they've got is a blind faith that the same Scottish politicians who have failed our NHS, our police, our education system, our farmers, and our transport network; the same politicians who cheered on RBS and who offered financial assistance to help Fred Goodwin complete his catastrophic purchase of ABN Amro and who told a nation in 2014 we were about to recieve recorrd levels of tax revenue from our oil production as the global oil price crashed through the floor - that somehow they will build a brighter Scottish future than the rich, success ridden 300 years that we were in the best political union in history. 

Fortunately the majority of Scots aren't as stupid as they are. Real patriot Scots who truly want the best for our people will never vote to leave the UK without substantial proof we'll all be better off. 

[John Lambies Doos]

Nationalists don't like debate and they don't like to read criticism of their cause. The reason is obvious. They cannot put up a fact based argument because they haven't been given one. 
All they've got is a blind faith that the same Scottish politicians who have failed our NHS, our police, our education system, our farmers, and our transport network; the same politicians who cheered on RBS and who offered financial assistance to help Fred Goodwin complete his catastrophic purchase of ABN Amro and who told a nation in 2014 we were about to recieve recorrd levels of tax revenue from our oil production as the global oil price crashed through the floor - that somehow they will build a brighter Scottish future than the rich, success ridden 300 years that we were in the best political union in history. 
Fortunately the majority of Scots aren't as stupid as they are. Real patriot Scots who truly want the best for our people will never vote to leave the UK without substantial proof we'll all be better off. 

Ok let's debate. If we are the most successful political union in history, can you please explain why Scotland consistently over the last 50 years has one of the highest rate of poverty in Western Europe, despite billions of oil revenue receipts?

[HTG]

19 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

24 minutes ago, Malky3 said:

Nationalists don't like debate and they don't like to read criticism of their cause. The reason is obvious. They cannot put up a fact based argument because they haven't been given one. 
All they've got is a blind faith that the same Scottish politicians who have failed our NHS, our police, our education system, our farmers, and our transport network; the same politicians who cheered on RBS and who offered financial assistance to help Fred Goodwin complete his catastrophic purchase of ABN Amro and who told a nation in 2014 we were about to recieve recorrd levels of tax revenue from our oil production as the global oil price crashed through the floor - that somehow they will build a brighter Scottish future than the rich, success ridden 300 years that we were in the best political union in history. 
Fortunately the majority of Scots aren't as stupid as they are. Real patriot Scots who truly want the best for our people will never vote to leave the UK without substantial proof we'll all be better off. 

Ok let's debate. If we are the most successful political union in history, can you please explain why Scotland consistently over the last 50 years has one of the highest rate of poverty in Western Europe, despite billions of oil revenue receipts?

Please don't. He's a Class A c**t with no more interest in debate than fly. 

[Malky3]

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

1 hour ago, Malky3 said:

Nationalists don't like debate and they don't like to read criticism of their cause. The reason is obvious. They cannot put up a fact based argument because they haven't been given one. 
All they've got is a blind faith that the same Scottish politicians who have failed our NHS, our police, our education system, our farmers, and our transport network; the same politicians who cheered on RBS and who offered financial assistance to help Fred Goodwin complete his catastrophic purchase of ABN Amro and who told a nation in 2014 we were about to recieve recorrd levels of tax revenue from our oil production as the global oil price crashed through the floor - that somehow they will build a brighter Scottish future than the rich, success ridden 300 years that we were in the best political union in history. 
Fortunately the majority of Scots aren't as stupid as they are. Real patriot Scots who truly want the best for our people will never vote to leave the UK without substantial proof we'll all be better off. 

Ok let's debate. If we are the most successful political union in history, can you please explain why Scotland consistently over the last 50 years has one of the highest rate of poverty in Western Europe, despite billions of oil revenue receipts?

Where does that statistic come from? 

The Borgen Project states that in 2015 Bulgaria, Romania and Greece had the highest levels of social exclusion poverty in Europe. Greece had the highest % of people living below the poverty line. 

It states that average unemployment in Europe is regarded as 7%. In Greece it stood at 20.9%, in Spain it was 16.3%. In Scotland it is 3.3%!

In work poverty? According to the same report Romania, Greece and Spain all significantly worse than Scotland. 

Foreigner born residents poverty? Italy is the worst according to the same report. 

Child poverty Spain is the worst apparently. Whilst Italy is the country most at risk of rising poverty levels. 

In fact the only place I can find any basis for your claim is on the Scottish Government website where it says that 20% of Scots live in relative poverty AFTER you take into account the cost of housing. In other words we are supposifdly poor because most of us have £tens of thousands of assets tied up in the property we own. 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Malky3

[DublinMagyar]

Wherever you stand on this debate, telling people who don't want independence to "f**k off to England" is absolutely disgraceful. I'd have thought we were way beyond that sort of shite but apparently not for a growing number of Indy supporters.
More depressing is the absence of any criticism of that sentiment from Yes voters on here.

Is the use of "Real Patriot Scots" acceptable to your idiom?

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Wherever you stand on this debate, telling people who don't want independence to "f**k off to England" is absolutely disgraceful. I'd have thought we were way beyond that sort of shite but apparently not for a growing number of Indy supporters.

More depressing is the absence of any criticism of that sentiment from Yes voters on here.

If you’re not happy with the phrase I suggest you f**k off to somewhere else.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Wherever you stand on this debate, telling people who don't want independence to "f**k off to England" is absolutely disgraceful.

It's been a reaction to Malky's wee chum Glendover saying he hates Scotland and its people and intends to move to England as soon as he can.

[Malky3]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

It's been a reaction to Malky's wee chum Glendover saying he hates Scotland and its people and intends to move to England as soon as he can.

Rubbish! 

Sandy told me to f**k off out of Scotland long before Glenovers wee rant. And he wasn't anywhere near the first to do it either. 

[John Lambies Doos]

Wherever you stand on this debate, telling people who don't want independence to "f**k off to England" is absolutely disgraceful. I'd have thought we were way beyond that sort of shite but apparently not for a growing number of Indy supporters.
More depressing is the absence of any criticism of that sentiment from Yes voters on here.

I overwhelming criticise anyone who condones or states this. As I do anyone who calls nationalists separatist p***ks