Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[GTG_03]

1 hour ago, AUFC90 said:

The only political uncertainty is remaining in a political union where the country you live in gets whatever another country votes for, forever. Brexit is a great example and there will be many more over the coming decades.

There wasn't much certainty the last time in voting no and there's certainly none now. The union is gubbed and all the Tories in the world can't say no to a referendum forever.

Unfortunately yes they can. The Scottish media won't even put up that much of a fight against it. They'll keep saying No and there's not really much that can be done about it. 

That's what happens when you give all your cards away and let another country make all your decisions for you. 

[lichtgilphead]

14 minutes ago, BILmac1967 said:

A country is defined by it's borders. The previous borders Hadrian's or Antonine's, was really created by the romans. The whole concept of Scotland as a country was really defined by them,

Hadrian's Wall is wholly in England. The Antonine Wall is wholly within Scotland. Neither of them define the current border. 

14 minutes ago, BILmac1967 said:

Any historical  border wasn't created by those who live here.

So what? It was created by those that lived there at the time that the border was established. Incidently, there will still be a few people living in Ireland that were UK citizens before the establishment of the UK - Republic of Ireland border. 

Does that mean that UK-ROI is a "better" border than (say) Belgium-Luxembourg or Canada-USA?

14 minutes ago, BILmac1967 said:

I honestly feel that Scotland as a country is a load of tartan biscuit-tin romantic tosh.

You really appear to hate "Scotland as a country". I pity you.

Edited October 13, 2019 by lichtgilphead

[BILmac1967]

12 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

If a party won a majority of seats in a Holyrood election in an independentr Scotland on a manifesto pledge of "If we win this election, we will hold a referendum to rejoin the UK", I would fully expect such a referendum to be held.

That's democracy.

Obviously, it's highly unlikely. I'm not sure that any party in Ireland, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia or India has ever stood on such a ticket, but hey, there could always be a first

That's not democracy. The Scottish parliament doesn't count. Youcan't really just add a parliament north of Watford and call yourself legitimate. That's like me forming a parliament around my house and voting never to pay tax again. Then why doesn't the city of London form it's own parliament and vote to give nothing to the isle of dogs, or west ham.

Just because we give ourselves a name like "Scotland" doesn't make it any more legitimate than "BILmac1967land"

Just because we vote for something doesn't mean we get to deny it to the rest of the UK, like oil revenue, if there is any left. Us and whos'e army, ultimately.

[lichtgilphead]

Just now, BILmac1967 said:

That's not democracy. The Scottish parliament doesn't count. Youcan't really just add a parliament north of Watford and call yourself legitimate. That's like me forming a parliament around my house and voting never to pay tax again. Then why doesn't the city of London form it's own parliament and vote to give nothing to the isle of dogs, or west ham.

Just because we give ourselves a name like "Scotland" doesn't make it any more legitimate than "BILmac1967land"

Just because we vote for something doesn't mean we get to deny it to the rest of the UK, like oil revenue, if there is any left. Us and whos'e army, ultimately.

Read my post properly, you absolute moron.

"If a party won a majority of seats in a Holyrood election in an independent Scotland..." 

If Scotland is already independent, then Holyrood will be our soverign parliament, not Westminster.

Now, please address my actual point. Try not to make yourself look like a dribbling simpleton.

[BILmac1967]

2 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Read my post properly, you absolute moron.

"If a party won a majority of seats in a Holyrood election in an independent Scotland..." 

If Scotland is already independent, then Holyrood will be our soverign parliament, not Westminster.

Now, please address my actual point. Try not to make yourself look like a dribbling simpleton.

Well, "if" and "independent". Sorry if I overlooked those words, I never thought that made a difference, that's because I cannot presume that Scotland will ever be independent. That's a whole other Disney movie, Tigger.

[lichtgilphead]

10 minutes ago, BILmac1967 said:

Well, "if" and "independent". Sorry if I overlooked those words, I never thought that made a difference, that's because I cannot presume that Scotland will ever be independent. That's a whole other Disney movie, Tigger.

Oh dear. 

Do you really write all your own posts?

If you recall, I originally responded to your assertion "If the boot was on the other foot, you wouldn't stand for constant re-runs until we got our way."

That statement presupposes that "Yes" has already won a referendum, and implies that Scotland is already independent.

So, you've failed the "don't make yourself look like a dribbling simpleton" test. Do you want to try for "horse-fucking moron" next?

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by lichtgilphead

[BILmac1967]

38 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Oh dear. 

Do you really write all your own posts?

If you recall, I originally responded to your assertion "If the boot was on the other foot, you wouldn't stand for constant re-runs until we got our way."

That statement presupposes that "Yes" has already won a referendum, and implies that Scotland is already independent.

So, you've failed the "don't make yourself look like a dribbling simpleton" test. Do you want to try for "horse-fucking moron" next?

 

I'll go horse fucking moron for 10, Bamber. My statement doesn't presuppose "yes" won anything, 'cos in the first place I always knew it was fiction, I think the confusion here is that I know "yes" will never happen, while it's you who tries to presume that it ever could.

I think you're arguing semantics now in order to presume that you are right. I don't think this is important, there's no point going round in circles with someone who makes a fictional presumption of "yes" in the first place.

"If the boot was on the other foot you wouldn't stand for constant re-runs" That statement stands up for itself. then that states that you wouldn't stand for 4- yearly re-runs, while you expect that of us until you had your way, then be completely intolerant of Britsh who wanted re-runs. I may have misread your reply because I didn't presume complete intolerance by yes voters.

Edited October 13, 2019 by BILmac1967
misunderstood first section of reply

[welshbairn]

I don't usually say this, but there's no point in dialogue with a blatantly obvious wind up merchant who doesn't even qualify for horse fucker status.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I don't usually say this, but there's no point in dialogue with a blatantly obvious wind up merchant who doesn't even qualify for horse fucker status.

Yup. Donny will soon get bored and f**k off. At least with losers like Glenanover you get the potential to push them into a stunning headsgone on a regular basis.

[BILmac1967]

9 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I don't usually say this, but there's no point in dialogue with a blatantly obvious wind up merchant who doesn't even qualify for horse fucker status.

I'm not the one who demands 4-yearly referenda but then if they get a yes vote, deny that to us. I couldn't presume such intolerance, so I misread the reply.

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

Latest polls showing people now think they will be economically better off in an Independent Scotland.  That is a game changer.

What was the question(s) used for this poll?

[BILmac1967]

2 minutes ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said:

6 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Latest polls showing people now think they will be economically better off in an Independent Scotland.  That is a game changer.

What was the question(s) used for this poll?

I noticed this before. It's not a game changer, it's a cross section of some people's views, stands to reason many of them will be misinformed, also matters where it was held- 200 yards from the SNP conference?

[lichtgilphead]

16 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

27 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I don't usually say this, but there's no point in dialogue with a blatantly obvious wind up merchant who doesn't even qualify for horse fucker status.

Yup. Donny will soon get bored and f**k off. At least with losers like Glenanover you get the potential to push them into a stunning headsgone on a regular basis.

I don't think this one is wee Donny. BILmac is about a million times stupider.

And remember, Donny couldn't work out a book title from "C_tch_r _n th_ r__"

Edited October 13, 2019 by lichtgilphead

[Suspect Device]

46 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

I don't think this one is wee Donny. BILmac is about a million times stupider.

And remember, Donny couldn't work out a book title from "C_tch_r _n th_ r__"

Why is there one consonant missing?

Edited October 13, 2019 by Suspect Device

[lichtgilphead]

4 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

Why is there one consonant missing?

It's from memory. I don't think all the consonants had been used up.

The thread appears to have been culled, so there's probably no way to find out.

[AUFC90]

You state "the country you live in gets what another country votes for" -we're in the UK so we got what we voted for. A majority is a majority by whichever percentage, that's as certain as you can get. If the boot was on the other foot, you wouldn't stand for constant re-runs until we got our way.

We were supposed to get a referendum once in a generation. That's 30-35 years, not every four years until you get your way.

 

The UK is not a country and Scotland's not a county so your point is complete shite. As for once in a generation usual unionist claptrap. If voters vote for parties that want an independence referendum then they should get one. That's democracy I'm afraid. If you don't like it you could always pop off, with your 2 alter egos, to somewhere less democratic like China or Russia.  

 

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Bilmac appears same day as Glen gets dumped... Shocker

[Malky3]

5 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I was expecting this - the usual tramlined Unionist argument where everything is seen thro an economic prism. Putting aside what sort of society we should wish Scotland to be - democratic, meritocratic, fundamentally pacifist, and dare I say morally and ethically sound - the people who continue to cling to the UK are to a man and woman largely incapable of visualising a different nation in aspects such as equitable land ownership, the growing housing crisis and associated homelessness problem, wealth distribution and the principle of commonweal, never mind the overarching iniquity of Scotland's electoral deficit at every GE.

These folk though, and I assume yourself too, are doing just fine under the status quo, and assuage any serious consideration of Scottish independence by parroting tripe about the Barnett Formula and the discredited GERS canard. Mysteriously tho, there is never a mention of the McCrone Report, for example, or indeed anything to challenge the notion that Scotland is anything other than a scenic economic basket case on UK life support.

On one thing we are agreed, abuse is never the answer. And that's why I'm delighted that the dial is steadily shifting towards Independence as it is evidence that the very concept can no longer be trashed with condescension and contemptuous ease, as people here and across the UK witness the disintegration of this failing sceptred isle.

You missed out the finding of unicorns and William Wallaces ghost. 

You better hope Scotland doesn't get independence cause you are going to be spectacularly disappointed. Your utopia isn't a shared vision. In the SNP White Paper for example far from bein pacifist Scotland was going to seek to join NATO. Your meritocrity wasn't the vision either. Scotland was retaining the monarchy. When it comes to democracy - well Holyrood is one of the few Parliaments anywhere in the world where someone rejected by their constituency can end up representing those who rejected them. Its utterly ridiculous. And then of course there is the fact that the Nationalist attitude to anyone who has a differing political opinion is to tell them to "f**k off elsewhere". 

If the GERs Report was discredited it would mean that the Scottish Government was reliant on Financial Advisors and Statisticians who were incompetent since they create the report. It would also expose Derek MacKay the Finance Minister who confirmed the GERs Report accurately reflected Scotlands Fiscal status. Take your pick I guess but I prefer to believe the experts and not the spin. The GERs Report is as accurate as it can be and its a true picture of Scotlands Fiscal position which begs the question - if you are planning to put all land back into public ownership where will the money come from? 

You accuse unionists of negativity yet its YOU who talk of Scotland being an economic basket case. I see Scotland as an important player in a strong union that is the 5th biggest economy in the world

Nevermind. Carry on dreaming. The 55% will keep Scotland safe! 

 

[Dan Steele]

[BFTD]

Are there any actual Unionist posters on this subforum? The pisstake aliases are most amusing, but surely somebody genuinely believes in the Union and also follows Scottish football.