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      Pie and Bovril Nostalgia Mobile Phone Cases!   12/09/18

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John Lambies Doos

Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

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I'm confident that he'll still be here.

Unlike our areas tory MSP's Wishart is always in perth and holding surgeries.

Angus Robertson will also retain his seat Im_rodger, you disgusting rape apologist.


The look on his face when the people of Moray democratically reject him.

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Speak for yourself.

We are not a diddy nation by any manner of speaking and almost nobody in this country lives in misery now or is facing decades of misery in the future whether we vote Yes or No.

The majority of people appear to be reasonably content with their lot. There will always be people who need temporary help and there will always be people who live completely chaotic lives regardless of the reason for it. For the vast majority, life is fine.

It is worth repeating this because the message doesn't seem to be getting through. See all this lefty bollox about the poor "being punished"?

Almost nobody in mainstream society agrees with this ultra left wing assessment of what the Tories are doing. In all my years, I have never met a single person in real life who talks like this and I have worked amongst all classes.

If you want to be taken seriously outside this forum you might need to rethink your analysis. You guys are just talking to yourselves.

I am speaking for myself.

I am reasonably content with my lot, have assets, own my house etc but I am not selfish to ignore that hundreds of thousands of people up and down the UK that struggle due to the Tories

My MIL was disabled and relied on benefits. When the Tories came into power her mobility allowance was slashed and the bedroom tax was imposed on her leaving her relentlessly struggling every month. The last couple of years of her life saw her struggling week to week, month to month. We helped when we could but it wasn't nice to see. She died a couple of years ago with all this hanging over her head.

Maybe because I've seen first hand what brutal welfare cuts do to people I have this opinion but even if I hadn't I'd like to think I would have the 'I'm all right Jack' attitude that other Scots seem to have.

Edited by Guest

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1 hour ago, Karl Fletcher said:

I am speaking for myself.

I am reasonably content with my lot, have assets, own my house etc but I am not selfish to ignore that hundreds of thousands of people up and down the UK that struggle due to the Tories

My MIL was disabled and relied on benefits. When the Tories came into power her mobility allowance was slashed and the bedroom tax was imposed on her leaving her relentlessly struggling every month. The last couple of years of her life saw her struggling week to week, month to month. We helped when we could but it wasn't nice to see. She died a couple of years ago with all this hanging over her head.

Maybe because I've seen first hand what brutal welfare cuts do to people I have this opinion but even if I hadn't I'd like to think I would have the 'I'm all right Jack' attitude that other Scots seem to have.

There were hundreds of thousand struggling before the Tories and there will be hundreds of thousands struggling after they have gone. It has always been this way and it appears that it doesnt matter how much money they have coming in. Nobody has manged to solve this since humans learned to walk upright.

If you have somehow stumbled on the Holy Grail of an answer to this pernicious problem then let's hear it.

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There were hundreds of thousand struggling before the Tories and there will be millions struggling after they have gone in 2060


FTFY

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

There were hundreds of thousand struggling before the Tories and there will be hundreds of thousands struggling after they have gone. It has always been this way and it appears that it doesnt matter how much money they have coming in. Nobody has manged to solve this since humans learned to walk upright.

If you have somehow stumbled on the Holy Grail of an answer to this pernicious problem then let's hear it.

Like you said before, very few people are living in the absolute destitution that used to exist here and still exists in other parts of the world. The develeoped world has made huge strides over the last century or so in that respect. So it's not a simple case of 'people were stuggling before, they'll be struggling after', over the decades timescale we've made huge advances.

Obviously there are a number of reasons for that but what do you think have deen the main drivers of that? Do you think government has had a positive influence? And do you think that any positive influence here has been for more right- or left-wing reasons?

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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Lecture lecture lecture.

I'm smarter than all of you.

Whinge whinge whinge.

I hate you all so much that I come on here every day without fail to tell you all how much I hate you all.

Moan moan moan.

I'm alright Jack, pull up the ladder.

Girn girn girn.

And finally, don't get comfortable, because I'll be along in another thread very soon, moaning about the same things, hating all of you so much I might just burst and pouring scorn on all your chat.

FTFY

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If being dragged out of the EU against Scotland's will won't make shitebags want independence, despite what was promised pre-referendum, then I think we're just going to have to play the long game and wait 10/15/20 years for the baby booming c**ts to die off and for the Tories to wreak more havoc before having another vote.

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If being dragged out of the EU against Scotland's will won't make shitebags want independence, despite what was promised pre-referendum, then I think we're just going to have to play the long game and wait 10/15/20 years for the baby booming c**ts to die off and for the Tories to wreak more havoc before having another vote.

Is it time to do the "not enjoying the journey" thing again ? Seriously though this kind of attitude is a constant own goal for YES but as long as it makes you feel better.

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3 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Like you said before, very few people are living in the absolute destitution that used to exist here and still exists in other parts of the world. The develeoped world has made huge strides over the last century or so in that respect. So it's not a simple case of 'people were stuggling before, they'll be struggling after', over the decades timescale we've made huge advances.

Obviously there are a number of reasons for that but what do you think have deen the main drivers of that? Do you think government has had a positive influence? And do you think that any positive influence here has been for more right- or left-wing reasons?

Both left and right wing initiatives have had a huge impact on this.

A combination of free health care, a functioning welfare state, employee rights etc from the left. To be fair to the right, in all the years they have been in power they have not rolled back much of that and in fact have extended it in many cases.

As for the right wing initiatives, the introduction of right to buy and the opening of credit has undoubtedly led to today's modern society allowing people freedom they simply didn't possess just 30 years ago. Deregulation of business has also had a massive positive influence.

Both sides have worked tirelessly on equality in the workplace legislation and deserve huge credit.

There of course are problems with both sides. Too much welfare has led to a state of dependency. Too much deregulation caused to the financial crisis although in fairness it was a Labour government who oversaw that.

The overall picture though is, as you say, very healthy for almost everyone.

The concern is the hundreds of thousands who have been left behind. Some of them need help, some of them just think they do. Neither left nor right wing has ever been able to fix the problems faced by these people.

Both political systems can be proud of the fact that almost all UK citizens are able to comfortably get by now and those achievements should not be dismissed lightly.

For all the remaining faults, this is a great country whether part of the UK or not and it saddens me to see so many young people thinking it's all shite. It isn't. Not by a long shot. But the remaining problems need creative solutions, not whining bollox on online forums and people filling in Facebook surveys.

Edited by oaksoft

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2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Both left and right wing initiatives have had a huge impact on this.

A combination of free health care, a functioning welfare state, employee rights etc from the left. To be fair to the right, in all the years they have been in power they have not rolled back much of that and in fact have extended it in many cases.

As for the right wing initiatives, the introduction of right to buy and the opening of credit has undoubtedly led to today's modern society allowing people freedom they simply didn't possess just 30 years ago. Deregulation of business has also had a massive positive influence.

There of course are problems with both sides. Too much welfare has led to a state of dependency. Too much deregulation caused to the financial crisis although in fairness it was a Labour government who oversaw that.

 

It's VERY telling that you didn't say "Too much right to buy".  Which has very much been a problem.

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1 hour ago, Loondave1 said:


Is it time to do the "not enjoying the journey" thing again ? Seriously though this kind of attitude is a constant own goal for YES but as long as it makes you feel better.

I agree.

It's as though the lessons will never be learned.

Once this bunch of "cnts" dies off another generation will replace them.

Also, every other age group saw vast swathes vote No.

Lessons are not being learned and because of this needlessly aggressive attitude, we are heading to another No vote IMO.

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2 minutes ago, Fide said:

It's VERY telling that you didn't say "Too much right to buy".  Which has very much been a problem.

Or you could simply have asked my opinion on that.

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16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Both left and right wing initiatives have had a huge impact on this.

A combination of free health care, a functioning welfare state, employee rights etc from the left. To be fair to the right, in all the years they have been in power they have not rolled back much of that and in fact have extended it in many cases.

As for the right wing initiatives, the introduction of right to buy and the opening of credit has undoubtedly led to today's modern society allowing people freedom they simply didn't possess just 30 years ago. Deregulation of business has also had a massive positive influence.

Both sides have worked tirelessly on equality in the workplace legislation and deserve huge credit.

There of course are problems with both sides. Too much welfare has led to a state of dependency. Too much deregulation caused to the financial crisis although in fairness it was a Labour government who oversaw that.

The overall picture though is, as you say, very healthy for almost everyone.

The concern is the hundreds of thousands who have been left behind. Some of them need help, some of them just think they do. Neither left nor right wing has ever been able to fix the problems faced by these people.

Both political systems can be proud of the fact that almost all UK citizens are able to comfortably get by now and those achievements should not be dismissed lightly.

For all the remaining faults, this is a great country whether part of the UK or not and it saddens me to see so many young people thinking it's all shite. It isn't. Not by a long shot. But the remaining problems need creative solutions, not whining bollox on online forums and people filling in Facebook surveys.

Fair answer.

I think generally the 'middle ground' in politics has shifted largely to what we'd see as the left over the long term, to the point where, as you say even right-wing governments nowadays are not willing to roll back a lot of the significant contributions which have come from the left over the last century.

Even though some of the the things you mention might have come from a more modern 'right-wing' party I think right-wingers of a century or two ago would have seen employee rights and 'equality in the workplace legislation' as incredibly left wing.

People are often far too polariised in their views and anyone who thinks that one side has all the answers or even that there are a set of perfect answers to every problem are clearly deluded but I don't actually think 'whining bollox' as you put it (online or not) is all that bad a thing. Yes stuff like the NHS might have been devised by people with vision sitting down in a room and coming up with creative solutions but I'd bet that came about after the crescendo of bitching and moaning about poor health reached a critical mass.

Society is (or should be) the constant effort to fix problems and identify new ones. Personally I see complaining as society's way of deciding amongst themselves which problems are serious enough to merit the most attention. You, I or anyone can sit on P&B or down the pub and be as constructive or negative as we like about these things but ultimately we're all just howling into the void about it, on a personal level.

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7 hours ago, Loondave1 said:

Is it time to do the "not enjoying the journey" thing again ? Seriously though this kind of attitude is a constant own goal for YES but as long as it makes you feel better.

Does the inevitable defeat that would come in a referendum if held in the near future make you feel better?

5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I agree.

It's as though the lessons will never be learned.

Once this bunch of "cnts" dies off another generation will replace them.

Also, every other age group saw vast swathes vote No.

Lessons are not being learned and because of this needlessly aggressive attitude, we are heading to another No vote IMO.

There are many lessons to be learned, but the fact remains that a referendum will be far more winnable when the current 60+ demographic are in their box.

Edited by Elixir

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There are many lessons to be learned, but the fact remains that a referendum will be far more winnable when the current 60+ demographic are in their box.

^^^^^
Not enjoying the journey..

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I agree.
It's as though the lessons will never be learned.
Once this bunch of "cnts" dies off another generation will replace them.
Also, every other age group saw vast swathes vote No.
Lessons are not being learned and because of this needlessly aggressive attitude, we are heading to another No vote IMO.

We are indeed heading to an inevitable NO or even no vote whatsoever.Thrashing around for an easy "enemy within" target to blame is farcical stuff.Something is changing and the echo chamber in here will no doubt be the last to notice.No fan of the Tories and i wouldn't vote tactically for them as its a bridge too far for me but i can sense what's happening outside P&B.Im also painfully aware that thinking part of the demograph is safely in your pocket forever might not be the wisest way forward.My guess is the SNP will of course win 40+ seats but the inability to win a referendum will leave Scotland in a political cul de sac and everybody might need to get back to their day jobs Apparently I'm thick though so no need to worry..

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We are indeed heading to an inevitable NO or even no vote whatsoever.Thrashing around for an easy "enemy within" target to blame is farcical stuff.Something is changing and the echo chamber in here will no doubt be the last to notice.No fan of the Tories and i wouldn't vote tactically for them as its a bridge too far for me but i can sense what's happening outside P&B.Im also painfully aware that thinking part of the demograph is safely in your pocket forever might not be the wisest way forward.My guess is the SNP will of course win 40+ seats but the inability to win a referendum will leave Scotland in a political cul de sac and everybody might need to get back to their day jobs Apparently I'm thick though so no need to worry..


A great reason to vote yes right there. The fact the democratically elected Scottish government attempting to implement a part of the manifesto on which it was elected can be ignored is disgraceful.

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A great reason to vote yes right there. The fact the democratically elected Scottish government attempting to implement a part of the manifesto on which it was elected can be ignored is disgraceful.


It's so simple, yet some still do not understand.

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8 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:


We are indeed heading to an inevitable NO or even no vote whatsoever.Thrashing around for an easy "enemy within" target to blame is farcical stuff.Something is changing and the echo chamber in here will no doubt be the last to notice.No fan of the Tories and i wouldn't vote tactically for them as its a bridge too far for me but i can sense what's happening outside P&B.Im also painfully aware that thinking part of the demograph is safely in your pocket forever might not be the wisest way forward.My guess is the SNP will of course win 40+ seats but the inability to win a referendum will leave Scotland in a political cul de sac and everybody might need to get back to their day jobs Apparently I'm thick though so no need to worry..

What is changing?

Referendum intention polling is quite static.

The only change is that the Tories are taking the second place that Labour were relegated to.  Margaret Thatcher still pulled in a higher percentage of the vote in Scotland than any poll suggests that the Tories will in this GE.

It might be uncomfortable, rather awkward to approach and a bit insensitive but it is true that a certain age group in this country votes more for Unionism, and now the Tories too, than any other.  They also use their vote very effectively and have no reason not too and very little reason to contemplate changing it.  Time, or the lack of, makes the realisation of any fundamental change outwith their grasp and almost irrelevant.

The media talk of a Tory resurgence is rather overblown when, at very best, they might have 1 MP for every 4 SNP MP's.  That, when the hyperbole is ignored, is still a democratic deficit that the party with a quarter of the MP's holds the most power if you think, as I do, that Scotland is worthy of being more than just a region of the UK.

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A great reason to vote yes right there. The fact the democratically elected Scottish government attempting to implement a part of the manifesto on which it was elected can be ignored is disgraceful.



Yup. Yet some people have no pride and belief in their country it's very sad...

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