Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[Gordon EF]

8 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Or the SNP have taken constituency votes from Greens, because the Greens don't stand in many constituencies and even where they do they're unlikely to win.

Whether an SNP/Green voter is an SNP voter "lending" a vote to the Greens, or a Green voter "lending" their vote to the SNP, is like wondering whether a zebra is black with white stripes or white with black stripes.

I don't think this is an either/or thing. Going purely by the plots, both of these things are happening. In the second half of 2020:

• The SNP constituency % has risen about 1.5%.
• The Green constituency % has fallen about 1.5%.
• The SNP regional % has fallen about 3%.
• The Green regional % has risen about 2.5%.

Whilst it's far too neat to say these are all just a solid group of pro-independence supporters shuffling their votes around to make the most electoral impact and, of course, they're not the same people being polled. It does suggest that both reasonably significant numbers  'double Greeners' and some 'double SNPers' are moving towards SNP/Green.

 

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, renton said:

The other interesting mirror there seems to be Labour and the Tories - jockeying for the core unionist vote.

Yep. That looks pretty neat. Brexit and the pandemic pulling a few of the Lab2Con 2016 voters back towards Labour?

Or, more accurately, away from the Tories with only one place left to go.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Gordon EF

[John Lambies Doos]

Tactical voting in Scotland is incomprehensible to me unless you're a diehard Unionist and don't care between the Tories, Labour and Libdems. If you want independence vote SNP 1 and 2, or SNP/Green if you must. May's election is hugely important for a proven mandate, vote share is as important as the number of seats, if not more so.

Good post, SNP need 50% on constituency vote. If they got 48 and the greens got 4, our biased state media would claim no mandate

[sophia]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

My local candidate is a good councillor who responds well and seems to get things done. That said we’ve essentially been left without MSP representation since Mckay decided we didnt need it and continued to take a full salary whilst doing no work. That coupled with the shambles of the covid response and their record on criminal justice means voting snp would require me to hold my nose considerably. There is no way they are getting both votes, i’d be interested in a pro indy labour party that was led by Monica Lennon and separate from the Blairites like Baillie, Sarwar and the London branch, but that seems a long way off, so for now it might need to be a very reluctant snp/green or just spoil the ballot/green. 

 

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Tactical voting in Scotland is incomprehensible to me unless you're a diehard Unionist and don't care between the Tories, Labour and Libdems. If you want independence vote SNP 1 and 2, or SNP/Green if you must. May's election is hugely important for a proven mandate, vote share is as important as the number of seats, if not more so.

One of these posts is self indulgent overthink, the other is clarity personified and can be of help to many, even those that voted for brexit for reasons convoluted.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

9 minutes ago, sophia said:

 

One of these posts is self indulgent overthink, the other is clarity personified and can be of help to many, even those that voted for brexit for reasons convoluted.

What about my post was self indulgent? You think its acceptable that the SNP allowed my msp to abandon his constituency? Cool. 

[sophia]

1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

What about my post was self indulgent? You think its acceptable that the SNP allowed my msp to abandon his constituency? Cool. 

You've made the assumption that I was referring to your post.

Why would that be the case?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Just now, sophia said:

You've made the assumption that I was referring to your post.

Why would that be the case?

Largely because of the order of the quote and the way you phrased your post. But if you think the SNP deserve votes in a constituency they abandoned then fair enough.

[jakedee]

Largely because of the order of the quote and the way you phrased your post. But if you think the SNP deserve votes in a constituency they abandoned then fair enough.

Can you explain why in your opinion the SNP abandoned the constituency.
He was suspended from the party, and as far as I'm aware there is no recall process enabling him to be sacked.

[sophia]

16 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Largely because of the order of the quote and the way you phrased your post. But if you think the SNP deserve votes in a constituency they abandoned then fair enough.

Anyone that casts a vote that gives succour to the likes of Johnson and his mob should be well aware of their actions. If that can be in any way shape or form be squared, then perhaps that is indeed fair enough.

[renton]

29 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

What about my post was self indulgent? You think its acceptable that the SNP allowed my msp to abandon his constituency? Cool. 

What did you want them to do?

[NotThePars]

58 minutes ago, sophia said:

 

One of these posts is self indulgent overthink, the other is clarity personified and can be of help to many, even those that voted for brexit for reasons convoluted.

 

47 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

What about my post was self indulgent? You think its acceptable that the SNP allowed my msp to abandon his constituency? Cool. 

 

45 minutes ago, sophia said:

You've made the assumption that I was referring to your post.

Why would that be the case?

Why don't you clarify for the audience then big man

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

29 minutes ago, jakedee said:

Can you explain why in your opinion the SNP abandoned the constituency.
He was suspended from the party, and as far as I'm aware there is no recall process enabling him to be sacked.

The constituents elected an msp as an SNP representative, there is no current sitting MSP for the constituency and no assistance available to constituents. Further to that, ive not had a single letter or leaflet from any other SNP elected member saying ‘we know Derek Mckay isnt working currently so bring any concerns to me’ that in itself would have gone a long way to correcting this. 

28 minutes ago, sophia said:

Anyone that casts a vote that gives succour to the likes of Johnson and his mob should be well aware of their actions. If that can be in any way shape or form be squared, then perhaps that is indeed fair enough.

As well as a constitutional question there is the fact that I as a constituent of a Scottish parliament constituency I also want someone who will represent my area and its interests, which is clearly not happening. 

28 minutes ago, renton said:

What did you want them to do?

I believe Mckay has not had anywhere near enough pressure to resign as an msp from within the SNP, hes clearly holding on to the job as he has a large house to pay for and little employment prospect. He lives not far from me. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Inanimate Carbon Rod

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

 

Why don't you clarify for the audience then big man

Apparently its not the done thing to think you as a basic right in a democratic country can expect effective and active representation nor have the ability to question a political party even if its performance locally and nationally has been poor regardless of your shared thoughts on Scottish independence. 
 

We are all obviously going through a very challenging period of time, ive had a number of concerns that I should be able to speak to my msp about on devolved matters like ppe provision for emergency workers (when there was none), tried writing to the neighbouring snp msp who refused to help or raise my concern with the justice minister who also ignored perfectly reasonable and polite correspondence. So yeah, I dont have a lot of faith in the party. The candidate to replace Mckay seems to be a decent person who is very proactive, so she may win my vote on that basis, i’ll read her election material very clearly and watch debates etc, im encouraged by people like Monica Lennon however and if they went indy neutral etc and split with UK labour id see that as a positive step.

But if thats ‘self indulgent’ then aye fair do’s, I personally think its just reasonable to expect help and representation. 

[oneteaminglasgow]

3 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Apparently its not the done thing to think you as a basic right in a democratic country can expect effective and active representation nor have the ability to question a political party even if its performance locally and nationally has been poor regardless of your shared thoughts on Scottish independence. 
 

We are all obviously going through a very challenging period of time, ive had a number of concerns that I should be able to speak to my msp about on devolved matters like ppe provision for emergency workers (when there was none), tried writing to the neighbouring snp msp who refused to help or raise my concern with the justice minister who also ignored perfectly reasonable and polite correspondence. So yeah, I dont have a lot of faith in the party. The candidate to replace Mckay seems to be a decent person who is very proactive, so she may win my vote on that basis, i’ll read her election material very clearly and watch debates etc, im encouraged by people like Monica Lennon however and if they went indy neutral etc and split with UK labour id see that as a positive step.

But if thats ‘self indulgent’ then aye fair do’s, I personally think its just reasonable to expect help and representation. 

Genuinely, have you tried contacting one of the list MSPs? Pretty sure you're their 'constituent' as well, and would be able to help you.

As for the neighbouring MSP, I'm pretty certain there's rules against them getting involved in cases if someone is outwith their constituency.

[Baxter Parp]

14 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The constituents elected an msp as an SNP representative, there is no current sitting MSP for the constituency and no assistance available to constituents. Further to that, ive not had a single letter or leaflet from any other SNP elected member saying ‘we know Derek Mckay isnt working currently so bring any concerns to me’ that in itself would have gone a long way to correcting this. 

He's still your elected representative though. Nothing to do with the SNP.

[lichtgilphead]

6 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Apparently its not the done thing to think you as a basic right in a democratic country can expect effective and active representation nor have the ability to question a political party even if its performance locally and nationally has been poor regardless of your shared thoughts on Scottish independence. 
 

We are all obviously going through a very challenging period of time, ive had a number of concerns that I should be able to speak to my msp about on devolved matters like ppe provision for emergency workers (when there was none), tried writing to the neighbouring snp msp who refused to help or raise my concern with the justice minister who also ignored perfectly reasonable and polite correspondence. So yeah, I dont have a lot of faith in the party. The candidate to replace Mckay seems to be a decent person who is very proactive, so she may win my vote on that basis, i’ll read her election material very clearly and watch debates etc, im encouraged by people like Monica Lennon however and if they went indy neutral etc and split with UK labour id see that as a positive step.

But if thats ‘self indulgent’ then aye fair do’s, I personally think its just reasonable to expect help and representation. 

As your "neighbouring SNP MSP" is not your representative at Holyrood, he or she is not supposed to help a non-constituent.

You do, however, have 7 list MSP's, any of which could have assisted you - 1 green, 3 labour and 3 tories. Why  did you not try them?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Genuinely, have you tried contacting one of the list MSPs? Pretty sure you're their 'constituent' as well, and would be able to help you.

As for the neighbouring MSP, I'm pretty certain there's rules against them getting involved in cases if someone is outwith their constituency.

Yes, they arent SNP members and seemed more to be looking for headlines and not interested in concerns. Anyway, its 4 months til the election, im not happy with the SNP just now but ill listen carefully to the candidate to replace Mckay. I think its perfectly reasonable to challenge pish poor performance however. 

[renton]

18 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The constituents elected an msp as an SNP representative, there is no current sitting MSP for the constituency and no assistance available to constituents. Further to that, ive not had a single letter or leaflet from any other SNP elected member saying ‘we know Derek Mckay isnt working currently so bring any concerns to me’ that in itself would have gone a long way to correcting this. 

As well as a constitutional question there is the fact that I as a constituent of a Scottish parliament constituency I also want someone who will represent my area and its interests, which is clearly not happening. 

I believe Mckay has not had anywhere near enough pressure to resign as an msp from within the SNP, hes clearly holding on to the job as he has a large house to pay for and little employment prospect. He lives not far from me. 

Hard to know what pressure they could apply. He's disgraced, his career in politics is over. He's been suspended by the SNP. Exactly what could they say or do to pry him out?

[sophia]

11 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Apparently its not the done thing to think you as a basic right in a democratic country can expect effective and active representation nor have the ability to question a political party even if its performance locally and nationally has been poor regardless of your shared thoughts on Scottish independence. 
 

We are all obviously going through a very challenging period of time, ive had a number of concerns that I should be able to speak to my msp about on devolved matters like ppe provision for emergency workers (when there was none), tried writing to the neighbouring snp msp who refused to help or raise my concern with the justice minister who also ignored perfectly reasonable and polite correspondence. So yeah, I dont have a lot of faith in the party. The candidate to replace Mckay seems to be a decent person who is very proactive, so she may win my vote on that basis, i’ll read her election material very clearly and watch debates etc, im encouraged by people like Monica Lennon however and if they went indy neutral etc and split with UK labour id see that as a positive step.

But if thats ‘self indulgent’ then aye fair do’s, I personally think its just reasonable to expect help and representation. 

Delivering a truly democratic country trumps your weird obsession with McKay and bizarre hill to die on ppe concerns are pixels in the big picture.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Just now, sophia said:

Delivering a truly democratic country trumps your weird obsession with McKay and bizarre hill to die on ppe concerns are pixels in the big picture.

So i shouldnt ask for ppe to do my job in the midst of a pandemic? Hmm ok. 
Weird obsession with Mckay, no.  Anger that a selfish b*****d has put his own self interest before his constituents, yes. But hey if you think I should just accept that theres no one voting on my behalf in the Scottish Parliament because my MSP likes to chat up schoolboys then that says more about your values than mine.