Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[BFTD]

What's the general consensus on compulsory voting?

Not something that seems to be of any interest over here, and you can understand why considering it never seems to be in the establishment's interest for the youth to vote in greater numbers, but something we'd be able to consider in an independent Scotland. There must be negatives, but I'm struggling to think of them.

[BFTD]

2 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

compulsory voting elected this man

Aye, but we could do that for votes where nae c**t turned up to vote, like the BNP/UKIP council/European elections.

I suppose low turnouts do take the sting off a real nogoodnik getting into office. If most folk were compelled to stick an 'X' in a box, there's nowhere to hide - we're just bad people, end of story.

[Highland Capital]

1 hour ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

What's the general consensus on compulsory voting?

I'm against it.  It's a good idea in theory but I would imagine at the minute, if people aren't interested in politics they probably don't vote.  It's probably better that these people sit it out than are compelled to vote for someone or something they know nothing about.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

Compulsory voting is designed to manufacture majorities when only pluralities exist. About the only circumstance in which I'd support it would be if it was introduced alongside a "none of the above" option and if this won the vote then none of the candidates won and someone was appointed at random from the constituency electoral roll.

That's what I was assuming - do the Aussies actually have to vote for someone on the ballot paper? Spoiling your ballot should always be an option.

Although, if we're going to go down the route of appointing someone at random from the electoral roll...was it the ancient Greeks who did this for all political office to minimise corruption?

17 minutes ago, Highland Capital said:

I'm against it.  It's a good idea in theory but I would imagine at the minute, if people aren't interested in politics they probably don't vote.  It's probably better that these people sit it out than are compelled to vote for someone or something they know nothing about.

I don't know. Whether they're interested or not, they should have a voice, even if it's just to state that they don't give a shit/feel their opinion isn't going to matter. It strikes me as worrying to have a democratic system where everybody's vote is supposed to carry the same weight, but at least a quarter - sometimes three-quarters - of the electorate end up in the position where they don't think it matters. That only suits the status quo, and the folk in charge.

[welshbairn]

17 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

That's what I was assuming - do the Aussies actually have to vote for someone on the ballot paper? Spoiling your ballot should always be an option.

Although, if we're going to go down the route of appointing someone at random from the electoral roll...was it the ancient Greeks who did this for all political office to minimise corruption?

I don't know. Whether they're interested or not, they should have a voice, even if it's just to state that they don't give a shit/feel their opinion isn't going to matter. It strikes me as worrying to have a democratic system where everybody's vote is supposed to carry the same weight, but at least a quarter - sometimes three-quarters - of the electorate end up in the position where they don't think it matters. That only suits the status quo, and the folk in charge.

As a yer da, the only way you'll get the 16-25s to vote is to make a secure voting app with an easter egg game that only opens once they've voted. Old folk get all the blame for recent election results but the yoof are just as much to blame. 

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

What's the general consensus on compulsory voting?

Not something that seems to be of any interest over here, and you can understand why considering it never seems to be in the establishment's interest for the youth to vote in greater numbers, but something we'd be able to consider in an independent Scotland. There must be negatives, but I'm struggling to think of them.

A none of the above option would make this a better option but I'm not sure what you do when there's inevitably seats which end up with "none of the above" winning a majority. Maybe combine it with a democratic lottery which tbh might not be the worst idea going by who largely enters politics these days. You probably end up with an even more powerful Civil Service though.

[Highland Capital]

1 hour ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

I don't know. Whether they're interested or not, they should have a voice, even if it's just to state that they don't give a shit/feel their opinion isn't going to matter.

They have a voice but it's up to them if they want to use it.  The stupid and the ignorant are usually pretty right wing - maybe that explains why Australia is a pretty right wing country.  It'd be better if they sat it out.

Having none of the above is something I'm in favour of, but I think it's a slightly different issue - it might though bring out some of the disillusioned voters of course.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Highland Capital

[Ira Gaines]

Compulsory voting is the opposite of free will. It's fucking disgusting. 

[Arabdownunder]

5 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

That's what I was assuming - do the Aussies actually have to vote for someone on the ballot paper? Spoiling your ballot should always be an option.

We only have to turn up at the polling place and have our name ticked off the list, don't actually have to vote.

[Eednud]

25 minutes ago, Arabdownunder said:

We only have to turn up at the polling place and have our name ticked off the list, don't actually have to vote.

Still supposed to put your ballot paper in the box though. You don’t even need to turn up as it’s easy to get a postal vote. You do need send the envelope back to the Electoral Commission but ballot papers can be left blank.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Eednud

[thisal]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

really interesting analysis in the NS:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/09/more-two-thirds-young-scots-now-back-independence

Look at ABC1. Also brexit vote doesn't correlate at all strongly with voting intention in a future referendum. They'd be very well advised to say 'time to choose our own path' rather than 'get back into the EU immediately'

The most surprising statistic there is 13.7% of people that voted Yes in 2014 are now No. I can't think of anything that has happened in the last 6 years that would push people in that direction.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, thisal said:

The most surprising statistic there is 13.7% of people that voted Yes in 2014 are now No. I can't think of anything that has happened in the last 6 years that would push people in that direction.

Mad Brexity ones most likely.

[San Starko Rover]

really interesting analysis in the NS:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/09/more-two-thirds-young-scots-now-back-independence
Look at ABC1. Also brexit vote doesn't correlate at all strongly with voting intention in a future referendum. They'd be very well advised to say 'time to choose our own path' rather than 'get back into the EU immediately'

Who are the 6.3% who vote SNP but don’t want independence [emoji23] that’s the whole point of the SNP.

I’m curious if more youngsters picking an EPL team or La Liga has impacted them being less Unionist. In the past people who wanted to support a “big team” invariably picked Celtic or Rangers many of those who picked Rangers inevitably joined in with the PUL bullshit which must have influenced some (we’ve all met the I’m voting No because I’m a Rangers fan type) also in the past Celtic fans were focused on Ireland than Scotland. Are youngsters who shun these two more likely to be open to independence as they’ve not got the sectarian baggage influence.

[Gordon EF]

2 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

really interesting analysis in the NS:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/09/more-two-thirds-young-scots-now-back-independence

Look at ABC1. Also brexit vote doesn't correlate at all strongly with voting intention in a future referendum. They'd be very well advised to say 'time to choose our own path' rather than 'get back into the EU immediately'

My take on this:

• The recent age band analysis in incredibly encouraging for the Yes side. More so that the middle-aged group are now solidly behind independence. I don't think they're going to revert to unionism due to 'conservatism drift' as they get older. They're also raising the next generation of voters. We know the 70+ group is a lost cause on the whole. That's not changing. What matters is that the voters who replace them back independence.
• Very good that support for indpendence covers all social classes. It's obviously been a line from unionist trolls that independence is something that only the underclass and fanatics support. That was clearly always pish but I do feel there was always some mental barrier in Scotland that some "successful, middle class" types had  to supporting independence. Tied in to the kind of Scottish cringe "Scotland = poor, England / UK = rich" tripe that idiots from a bygone era like Kincardine are fully signed up to.
• It's obvious that Brexit has had an effect on some of the switching. It looks like Yes has lost some of the true "go it alone isolationist" types who don't like the general pro-EU stance of the Yes side. But, as could easily be predicted, the gains we make from the 2014 No voters who see Brexit as an astonishing act of isloationist self-harm more than make up for that.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

Seems like the SGC did its job.

In more ways than you know!

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

Waddya mean?

Laying the ground for austerity and gaining tacit acceptance for it

[NotThePars]

17 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

I guess so. Anyway like I say we'll just vote in someone else and change all that.

Can't wait til it's 2040 and I can take a sign to a protest saying "If Mhairi was FM then we'd be at brunch"

[sparky88]

2 hours ago, NotThePars said:

Laying the ground for austerity and gaining tacit acceptance for it

I hope the Yes vote gets to the levels where they can feel comfortable having these discussions on austerity prior to the referendum. I am not sure the SGC has enough cut through to persuade Yes voters that they have been told about possible austerity after independence, especially ones who think we woukd have left wing governments in perpetuity. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by sparky88

[pandarilla]

What i don't get is that 13% of yes voters in 2014 are now intending to vote no.

Who the f**k are they? That's weird

[Baxter Parp]

Just now, pandarilla said:

What i don't get is that 13% of yes voters in 2014 are now intending to vote no.

Who the f**k are they? That's weird

Idiot leavers.