Polling: 2017 General Election, Council Elections and Independence

[GordonS]

39 minutes ago, Caledonian1 said:

I seriously dont think they want to make trouble for her directly.  Independence trumps any squabbles that they may have - I think a lot of the noise in the background is being stirred up by the likes of the 77th Brigade and other Unionist plants.  Yes Salmond has good reason to be extremely angry but I do not believe it is with Nicola herself.

Were you by any chance wearing a hazmat suit yesterday and chasing foreigners at Berwick?

[Caledonian1]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

Were you by any chance wearing a hazmat suit yesterday and chasing foreigners at Berwick?

No, why do you say that?

[doulikefish]

Ive just realised why the yoons were howling more than usual this week

[Frank Grimes]

Those numbers seem too good to be true 

If that’s anything close to be true, then well, f**k me 

[Frank Grimes]

Also, they’re going to bring Ruth back aren’t they 

Get the Karens onside and energised for 2021 

[Colkitto]

13 minutes ago, Frank Grimes said:

Also, they’re going to bring Ruth back aren’t they 

Get the Karens onside and energised for 2021 

She knew the right time to get out. Her future is in the Lords

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Those are truly dreadful numbers for the Tories. Carlaw will be gone soon I suspect.

Not great for Labour either.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

15 minutes ago, Frank Grimes said:

Also, they’re going to bring Ruth back aren’t they 

Get the Karens onside and energised for 2021 

She'll be the fat, round, rancid face of the NO campaign in the 2nd referendum.

[Colkitto]

9 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

She'll be the fat, round, rancid face of the NO campaign in the 2nd referendum.

Well we do need a fat lady to sing.. 

[Colkitto]

“There is increasing gloom among senior unionist politicians in Conservative and Labour ranks in Scotland that independence is inevitable.”  

 

That line is almost as good as the poll itself 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

I feel that we have to be careful analysing polling like this.

While I don't doubt the veracity of the figures, I do question the strength behind them. On one hand, it's great news for the SNP and the Yes campaign that such an international crisis has shown up the strength of leadership in Holyrood and the poverty of leadership in Westminster. 

On the other hand, I do wonder if new converts to the Yes cause are reacting purely based on their opinion of leadership during this crisis, and will that hold ?

One thing this Corona crisis has told us, is that there is no way that Boris Johnson will be the face of the No campaign in Scotland come the next referendum. Given that Labour have no gravitas and are effectively a laughing stock, the only choice the No campaign have is Ruth Davidson....and will swithering Unionists be more tempted to listen to her and believe her ?

What I don't want to see from anyone connected with the Yes campaign, are any more nutcases like yesterday giving the impression to swithering voters that the independence movement is full of extremists....frankly, I'd also like to see all the AUOB marches cease completely. The 10% that are needed to swing independence are NOT impressed by marches, saltires round dogs, kilts and anything else that makes us look like protesters rather than the mainstream. 

Everything is still up in the air, that should always be remembered.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Bob Mahelp

[SandyCromarty]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

I don't think he wants the gig but Donald Cameron is about the only Tory I could see doing any good as leader.

Native Gaelic speaker & has used it in the chamber, heir to a clan Chiefdom, represents a rural area that often plays to conservative strengths.

The rest of them are without exception ferrets fighting in a sack.

I appreciate your input and posts but here is a man whose total education and youth has been in England at Harrow and Oxford which surely mirrors his loyalties, as for Clan Chiefs they became immaterial and remote from the Scottish people after Culloden when many of them went over to the english rulers in an attempt to regain their lands and fortune, so with that they were lost to Scotland, the Dukes of Argyll Campbells are a prime example.

I think this chap in question came third in his constituency and is a list MSP which does not indicate that he is held in highest regard in his area.

I as you know do not like tories in any form for what they represent.

As for a tory Holyrood leader a diseased parrot could do a better job than Swiss Tony.

Edward Mountbatten MSP, ( as Welshbairn calls Mountain) is a prime example of a man impersonating a ventriloquist's dummy. 

[John Lambies Doos]

Alex Salmond was a pioneer of the independence movement, taking us from nowhere to 45%. But unfortunately he is toxic now (even although an innocent man). He needs to take a complete backseat now.... Independence is inevitable

[John Lambies Doos]

“There is increasing gloom among senior unionist politicians in Conservative and Labour ranks in Scotland that independence is inevitable.”  
 
That line is almost as good as the poll itself [emoji23]

Love it!!!

[O'Kelly Isley III]

“There is increasing gloom among senior unionist politicians in Conservative and Labour ranks in Scotland that independence is inevitable.”  
 
That line is almost as good as the poll itself [emoji23]

I'm an independence supporter but it is far from inevitable. There is going to be immense economic pain resulting from Covid-19 which will be reinforced by the lunacy of Brexit and sadly many in Scotland will look to cower under the Unionist comfort blanket.
However, several things could help arrest this; firstly, the lingering Salmond affair gets put to bed; secondly, the SNP obsession with peripheral issues stops, and thirdly, a genuine attempt at forming a broad independence coalition is made, with a candid admission from the SNP that they are receptive to alternative voices who also seek a better Scotland.
Finally, the poverty of the Unionist prospectus, such as it is, must be challenged and exposed at every turn - the idea that polite debate will suffice is fantasy.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Pie and Bovril mobile app

[effeffsee_the2nd]

8 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I feel that we have to be careful analysing polling like this.

While I don't doubt the veracity of the figures, I do question the strength behind them. On one hand, it's great news for the SNP and the Yes campaign that such an international crisis has shown up the strength of leadership in Holyrood and the poverty of leadership in Westminster. 

On the other hand, I do wonder if new converts to the Yes cause are reacting purely based on their opinion of leadership during this crisis, and will that hold ?

One thing this Corona crisis has told us, is that there is no way that Boris Johnson will be the face of the No campaign in Scotland come the next referendum. Given that Labour have no gravitas and are effectively a laughing stock, the only choice the No campaign have is Ruth Davidson....and will swithering Unionists be more tempted to listen to her and believe her ?

What I don't want to see from anyone connected with the Yes campaign, are any more nutcases like yesterday giving the impression to swithering voters that the independence movement is full of extremists....frankly, I'd also like to see all the AUOB marches cease completely. The 10% that are needed to swing independence are NOT impressed by marches, saltires round dogs, kilts and anything else that makes us look like protesters rather than the mainstream. 

Everything is still up in the air, that should always be remembered.

During the fuel protests of 2000 with the country at a standstill the opinion polls swung to the torries  when labour were at the height f their dominance, such was the c**t of it they were making . less than a year later fresh from the foot & mouth clusterfuck hich delayed the election , labour came and pumped the torries red rotten again. 

TLDR crisis polls mean f**k all

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

During the fuel protests of 2000 with the country at a standstill the opinion polls swung to the torries  when labour were at the height f their dominance, such was the c**t of it they were making . less than a year later fresh from the foot & mouth clusterfuck hich delayed the election , labour came and pumped the torries red rotten again. 

TLDR crisis polls mean f**k all

I think it is fair to say, though, that the baseline has moved and looks like it is only going one way. Of course Individual polls at a certain point of time can be miles out, but I doubt anything can happen (other than Brexit being a rip-roaring success?) that will see much of a bounce in the other direction. 

 

[SandyCromarty]

20 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

Christian Allard's youth and education was in France, was he taking orders from Paris? Where someone was brought up and educated doesn't mean they don't have valid opinions. Where they live and make their life does. He's chosen to do that in Scotland. Sturgeon was a list MSP for the first few terms of the parliament, I don't think it's a great plan to imply list MSPs are somehow lesser mortals in the parliament. Particularly when the tories will be wary of being decapitated.

I don't give a f**k about 1700s history and neither do 90% of people who vote in these elections.

Common attack themes for Scottish tories are: Only represent their english masters, hostile to the concept of Scottishness and in particular the Gaeltachd, a front for northern Irish unionism and so on. He'd be exceptionally immune to the 2nd one and pretty remote from the 3rd, leaving only the 1st. He'd certainly be a step up from someone like Carlaw or that goon Michelle Ballantyne who lost to him and certainly more than wee trolls like Fraser, Wells, Briggs. He comes across as serious and invested in his arguments, even if I disagree with them.

You come across as an articulate, (literally), and intelligent man but from your strong dismissal of 1700's Scottish History I assume you are based in the Central Belt where ignorance of what went on North of that is very common as the atrocities of what happened have barely been recorded and conveyed to the general population.

In the mid 1700's and immediately after Culloden the english and hanoverians embarked upon 'A Reign of Terror' , (Tom Devine's words not mine'), so as to eradicate Jacobite sympathies, Highland Clan Chiefs and the Highland way of life, initially Cumberland intended whole transportation of the clans to the colonies but opted instead for a scorched earth policy of burning, looting and outright murder throughout the Highlands supported by a massive regular army royal navy, not content with these atrocities alone they proceeded to strip the Highlands of it's wealth, thousands of cattle and other farm animals were sold, poverty and starvation then ruled as there was not the money to even purchase grain, the Highlands virtually were a wasteland for many many decades.

Moving forward and after the potato famiine of 1846 which also greatly affected the Highlands came The Clearances where whole families surviving on a hand to mouth existane were driven out of their crofts and forced into barren coastal areas by unscrupulous landowners who saw more profit in sheep that could be raised in rent.

Sadly among those landowners were 'Clan Chiefs' now more at home in england and with no sympathies or emotional ties to theirr own people.

To this day if you can be bothered to look up present so called 'Clan Chiefs' you will find their main residence to be in england and most of them having been educated in the most privileged schools, clearly Scotland is not good enough for them unless they can strut around Highland Games with a feather in their. bonnets.   

 

[SandyCromarty]

4 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

I ken fine that happened I'm just saying I, sitting at a PC like you are in 2020, don't give a f**k. I care about what we could do as a nation in the future, not some vague idea about reparations for something that happened a long time ago.

Anyway going back to the fact most Chieftains have had expensive educations in public schools and so on. Yes they have but on the specific point of having a tory leader who is less vulnerable to 'hostile to Scottishness', that would probably carry a bit of weight with enough people to make a difference to their popularity. It's an academic point as they'll not settle for someone who doesn't have the right response to a Gaelic road sign.

I understand where you are coming from but to have a Holyrood tory leader who has been shaped in his most formative years in an elite english public school would not be well accepted in Scotland, given that his youth had been spent among privilege and his close friends would be of a similar strain his accent, attitude and affinities would be in a southerly direction.

Look up Bob Boothby a tory grandee and eton elitist who for years was voted into Parliament by the farmers and fishermen of East Aberdeenshire who in their ignorance were unaware of this mans outrageous behaviour. People like him firmly believe they have a god given right to rule us, just as the Clown we have as pm presently does, or as Clarkson described him, 'The Talking Teddy Bear'.

To conclude, I do understand that we will require a political balance in an Independent Scotland which will consist of differing ideals including from the right, but to have a political leader elitist educated and raised in england would not be acceptable if we are to celebrate our freedom from westminster.

[SandyCromarty]

5 hours ago, MixuFruit said:

This is very shaky ground in my opinion. The Scotland most of us want is a modern, diverse country where equal opportunity is baked in. What if someone had been sent to Eton but rejected that ethos and joined the SNP, would you be advocating a ceiling on their ambitions because of choices their parents made? If Christian Allard or Deirdre Brock returned as MSPs would you be against their being leadership candidates because of their birth and upbringing?

Absolutely correct in every way, take a look at the amount of public forums we have attached to the Parliament and you will see the amount of work that is undertaken by people from all walks of life. I am one of those that take part in one of the Forums dealing with Scotlands future as a voluntary and non remunerative participant .

As I recall the main aim of devolution was to create a political class more representative of the whole of Scotland, to my mind that would indicate a class which is raised and educated in Scotland and au fait with every aspect and familiar with Scottish life, again from my point of view that would deny those of a singular outlook and beliefs such as landowners and those raised in england and educated in an elitist fashion.